Disc Injuries: Non-Surgical Treatments

[Bicoastal]

Update post #29: h-o-p-e?

I noticed a few different threads dealing with discs and injections. Maybe we can compile some of that great information into one thread. What’s working for you in treatment, lifestyle, activity, supplements, and mental outlook?

What’s your diagnosis? Was there an acute injury? Age and duration of symptoms? Treatment? Results? I’ll start!

Diagnosis: ruptured discs at L2/3 and T 11/12. 2nd discogram next week to examine SI. Degenerative Disc Disease, arthritis, scoliosis, and Ehlers-Danlos symptoms.

Injury: no known. Horses all my young life until recently.

Age: 24yo. Experiencing pain since late teens but attributed it to horses until getting my desk job last fall and leaving horse ownership.

Treatment: tried PT, acupressure, facet injections, cortisone injections, trigger point, and currently trying prolotherapy (shout out to Whicker! :winkgrin:). Depending on second discogram, may try disk rejuvenation therapy (glucosamine chondroitin into discs). Taking fish oil and Vit B per doctor’s orders. No riding, running, lifting, twisting, high heels, etc.

Results: none yet. And more places on my body are snap-crackle-popping which worries me but not my doctors. :eek:

Can some of the wiser COTHers elaborate when they say in other disc injection threads that this is a lifelong injury? I don’t want to hear that but I know you guys are probably right and would like to learn how to cope and get back to horses (even as a helper at trials this season and not riding) without crippling myself.

[Rackonteur]

I don’t know anything about injections, but I did rupture a disc in my lower back about 17 years ago (good grief–I didn’t realize it had been so long!). Did not have surgery.

I still have lower back pain a lot, if I stand too long or sit too long. Usually riding helps a lot, but my riding these days is mainly walk and a little trot. I find the motion of the horse really does help a lot, as the therapeutic riding programs say.

I don’t know about its being a lifelong injury but it’s 17 years now …

[DressageGeek_Ribbon]

I blew L5/S1 thanks to a knee injury that was pointedly ignored by an orthopedist (and yes, I got a different one after the disc blew). That was in 1997. I am sure I am not as supple in my back (vertebrae fused naturally) and I also have nerve damage on the left side (no ankle reflex, and I really have to work to keep my left leg as strong as my right).

I am very, VERY fortunate that I have no pain and no other symptoms.

[Bicoastal]

Was hoping more would share

I was hopeful with the injection threads, lower back pain when riding thread, and USEF dispensation thread that more would share here. Maybe Mid-Atlantic riders were taking advantage of this beautiful weather this weekend!

For the two that posted, it seems like no major medical procedures were required? And you are both currently riding. Was there a time when you had to stop? At this point I am forbidden from riding until further notice. The concussion greatly stresses my SI joint and causes great pain not necessarily during the ride but afterwards; it can keep me up all night and take a couple days to recover from. PT -with increased awareness of your muscles and focusing on using your core- had no effect on this.

I just want to know what works and what doesn’t. Maybe I’m looking for encouragement as I’m facing the very painful discogram tomorrow and more prolo at the end of the week.

Thanks to those who shared!

[islandrider]

I think it isn’t easy to take the separate threads and try to make a 3rd one. We already have at least 2 threads on discs, injections, with a lot of posts. Maybe you can kinda scrunch into one of those, “hijack with permission?”

[Bicoastal]

Islandrider- Looks like you’re right. I’ll keep stalking those posts for more info. Specifically info away from steriod injections/surgery and more alternative treatments (prolo, PRP, disk rejuvination, etc) Thanks

[summerhorse]

I think it depends on the person if it is a lifelong injury (or a lifelong problem). For me it is. I have degenerative disk disease with several disks being problematic. I blew L5 and L6 (I think, I was heavily medicated! =) and something about S1. I have permanent nerve damage to one leg (foot mostly, foot drop they call it), that leg is much weaker and more prone to sciatica bouts.

I had surgery in Dec. and before that riding was OUT of the question, the pain was unbelievable. (I had 3 nerves being squeezed) Now I still get sciatica and pain in the foot/ankle just from walking a long way or up a lot of stairs so not sure when I can/will start riding again. The back is still touchy right now and I’m due for rotator cuff surgery soon too. So it will be a while!

The shoulder surgery is worse than the back surgery!

I also have a straight spine (also called military spine). It is straight down from skull to the last dip near the tail bone! I don’t know if that has made a difference or not, I suspect I was born with it. (they can’t tell)

Oh yeah, I had all kinds of therapy too. The only thing that was really helpful were large doses of (oral) medrol (steroid pack).

[wateryglen]

Well…

Maybe my lack of enthusiasm for your initial request is because there are zillions of threads on back injuries on COTH. Go back and research please. I’ve made many suggestions on these over the years that I’d gotten from MD’s, PT’s, fellow riders and my own experiences so…

Summerhorse said it well…it DOES depend on the person if it is a lifelong INJURY vs. PROBLEM. Sometimes how we deal w/an injury can make it a problem. Some folks handle injuries like no big deal and just carry on - hence it’s not a problem. Others sustain an injury and it becomes a huge deal that affects all aspects of their lives. I always suggest educating yourself well about your injury to deal. Knowledge is power! It helps you cope. It helps you rehab, helps you change, helps you live!! :yes:

I’m sorry you don’t want to hear that… There’s a lot of things we don’t wanna hear but it’s the truth.
Educate yourself and you will know how any injury heals and can or can’t become a problem over your lifetime. Sometimes old injuries wait until we’re “older” to affect us too! Arthritis at an old injury site can be a pain! And I mean that literally!! :winkgrin: And if the injury was at S1? Then it’s a pain in your ass!!! :lol::lol::rolleyes::rolleyes::p:p

[whicker]

Bicoastal, please…

Hi Bicoastal,
p.m. me and we can set a time to talk. It sounds like you need a hug and some encouragement. I know it isn’t fun to face this next round of tests and prolo.

Have you looked over at NIH for new info? Sometimes it helps to contact the researchers and learn more about “the bleeding edge of the cutting edge of science” Things are messy when one is looking at the front edges of experimental research.

Robin

[whicker]

Bicoastal, please…

NPR did a story today on PRP. You asked for more info, so I thought you would want to know.
http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=124501296&m=124501276

I do know the guru who taught Tiger Woods dr. The guru did my DH’s discs.

[Liz006]

If they think you have Erhers Danlos make sure you get completely evaluated for it- it is associated with a problem with the aorta, the large artery coming out of the heart. Don’t mean to scare you, but now’s a good time to find out, before you’re older.

[Bicoastal]

Thanks to those who have posted. Guess I was seeking knowledge of positive results from those who are now active with horses. The other threads didn’t quite seem to fit what I was seeking (no surgery or pain meds).

Summerhorse- the question of whether it is a temporary injury or lifelong problem is a great one to consider! I hope it is temporary but maybe I need absolutely convince myself it is temporary: the power of perspective?

Wateryglen- hope I didn’t come off as lazy. I did read several threads. Just thought a) it would be nice to compile all the wonderful info spread about and b) wanted to see if anyone had treatments outside of those discussed.

Seems it can be difficult to navigate the COTH waters without making waves. Wasn’t my intention to rock boats.

Whicker- Thanks for the links! Honestly I was very scared having to get a second discogram (jeepers it hurts!) and not knowing what would be found. Was just looking for some encouragement/positive experiences from those who have been there and are riding. Off to Dr. Friedlis for prolo tomorrow!! And PM coming. How’s it coming along with your mares?

[whicker]

An apology

Bicoastal,

I am sorry that some of us were expecting you to be up to speed on coth. Sometimes, we forget to look at the number of posts and realize that you are new.

I haven’t figured out how to bring the threads together to make it easier. I visualize something along the lines of chapters in a book, that we can refer to. The best I can suggest, for now, is to look through all the old threads, perhaps through the “search” function. I don’t know if each forum has it’s own set of “search” threads and posts. I have to ask the moderators.

When you need encouragement, just let us know, and we will be there for you. It is scary and hard. I don’t think that we recognized that you were looking for that. You can help us understand better better what you are facing. As I recall, there was a link to the possible disease you may have.

I have sent you a pm, too.

[wateryglen]

be a grumpy one!

Well how about this!? I always find breaking down life changes into smaller, do-able steps helps me cope. Looking at back injuries as lifelong may be too overwhelming and negative or disheartening. So maybe instead we should maybe concentrate on recovering and dealing with our “acute” injury, right now…today…and our rehab! right now…today…and our adjustment & emotional response to it- right now, today…then take it on for tomorrow and the day after. In other words; take one day at a time. One treatment at a time. One response at at a time. One emotion at a time. That seems more do-able. One step forward, one back, 2 forward, 1 back etc!!! :yes: That way we make progress forward overall!!! Hows that!??

Learning to cope with our disabilities or accumulated injuries over a liftime or as I call them…“my decrepitudes”:winkgrin: is hard and ongoing. Old people have learned this lifeskill well often. It’s part of life and acceptance of the hand that’s dealt us is hard but…DO-ABLE!! Strive on! AND IMHO - we grumpy ones do the best! Give 'em hell!!! Don’t give in!! Keep on keeping on!

oh! and isn’t Whicker just a gem!
love her!

[HorseLuvr]

I have ruptured L5/S1 twice now and I had the surgery both times. I know this thread is about non surgical treatments but the surgery has been pretty effective for me. If you go too long with the sciatic nerve pinched and let it heal on its own I do believe in some severe cases it does cause permanent nerve damage. The first time I ruptured it, I was riding again in 3 months after the surgery. I continued riding for almost 3 years somewhere between 6 and 10 horses a day/ 6 days a week with no problems until recently when it re ruptured again. Now I am sitting out again but I plan on riding just as many horses again once it is healed. There is always a 20% chance it can re rupture a third time but I don’t want to worry about it. However, a third rupture may lead me to get an artifical disc or a fusion.

[Bicoastal]

Disc Regeneration experiences?

Thanks guys! I admit now I probably was looking for encouragement, but was trying to be brave and not admit how scared I was .

Wateryglen: one day at a time has always been a challenge! Of course you are right. And I have no choice but to go one day at a time. I’m glad I don’t have horses right now, physically and financially, but it makes the day that much duller. So I come to COTH and get a fix.

Horseluver: my L4/L5 got diagnosed as mildly torn on Tues. The drs say I’m not a surgical candidate because I have healthy discs in between my three torn discs so I would require a “linking fusion, which no surgeon is going to do. Especially not on a 24year old.” Did you ever hear the same sort of thing? Did you fight for surgery?

Does anyone have experience with disc regenerative therapy? http://www.treatingpain.com/diagnosis-and-treatments/disc-regenerative-therapy.html

Whicker you are amazing! And your analogy of a young horse in training taking two steps forward, one step back seems a very good fit to the medical situations we face. Email coming!

[whicker]

Thank you! Dr. Crane Update

Thank you for the vote of confidence!

I do very much appreciate the feed-back, as I need encouragement, too.

I just spoke with Dr. David Crane and there is a major clinical/research symposium in Brazil next month. It will have researchers from around the world. There are now about 5 papers a day being published, just from the Chinese. I have asked him to link me to his education site when it is ready, so I can pass the resource on to you.

He also is interested in the feed-back from the coth forum. It is a 2 way street. I have been encouraging him, to think of us, the riders, as needing this as much as Tiger Woods.

[sodone]

I have degenerative disc disease in C5-C6. I am able to ride, but afterward there is often a good deal of discomfort. C5-C6 is in the neck, but I feel the pain in my shoulder and down my arm. I did physical therapy for a while and the neurosurgeon didn’t want to operate. I am fortunate enough to be fairly functional, but this isn’t going to go away.

I decided to stop riding the idiot horses and keep to the sane ones I figure I would be less likely to reaggravate things if I stuck with horses that are less likely to try to kill me. Also, I recently started yoga and find it waay more effective than physical therapy. I don’t know why it helps, but it seems to ease the aching I often feel. I’ve had to modify my running routine and now bike a little to make up for it. My Dr said that the impact of running is tough with these types of injuries.

I’m not young like you are (I’m almost 45), but I think it’s important to keep myself moving as much as possible. I am going to have to modify what I do as symptoms ebb and flow, but I’m going to do my best to try to keep moving.

Take care

[Bicoastal]

PT questions

II know this is a question for my doctors (I’ve asked*): is PT safe for ruptured discs? I enjoyed going twice a week and taking an active role in my healthcare. PT stopped because pain continued, but I kept up my at-home PT exercises faithfully.

Since my diagnosis, I am scared to do the PT fearing twisting will increase pain the next day/that night or do more damage. Thoughts/experiences?

*When I asked my doctor he said ‘Sure. You can walk. Or do the ski machine.’ I asked specifically about at-home PT: ‘If you think it helps. No lifting or twisting. You have a dog, right? You can’t walk him.’ :eek: ‘Does he pull? What if he sees a squirrel? You can’t get jerked. He’s a dog. You can’t get those sudden jerks and tugs and twists.’

Well that dog is my responsibility and my best trail buddy so we walk. Sadly, he’s slowed down noticeably the last week (he’s 12+yo) so he’s scheduled to see the vet same day as I’m getting my first disc regeneration injections. Double trouble!

What is safe exercise? I tried bikram yoga and it was amusing but some postures were absolutely wrong (any concavity of my back is to be avoided, though being hypermobile it’s easy to do –think hunter rider back- and doesn’t really hurt at the time).

[whicker]

Bicoastal, please…

Let’s talk.

I think you may want to try the P.T who is a rider. She works with your dr, so they are on the same page. She is a genius at creating exercises specifically for your needs at the time.