Hmm, good to think about.
I guess I’m realizing that I REALLY need to understand neck conformation better. I looked at that horse and thought, good amount of bone, looks like a nice back and pretty head and colour, but clearly overlooked a major concern in terms of functional conformation. Thank you for your input!
WOW, what a cutie! Am I wrong in thinking he looks kind of Spanish?
I love horses with lots of bone like that! (Regarding your pony, not Spanish-type horses in general)
I’m a couple hours from Burns, and I’d probably get mine from there unless I saw an awesome animal somewhere else.
I actually have a preference for a mare (not dead set on it), but there just happens to be quite a few nice geldings left in Burns right now to compare.
Based on what I’ve been able to deduce about your horse experience from this and your other posts, I would strongly encourage you to rethink your plan for adopting a mustang. All the Cherry Hill books in the world will not prepare you for this level of horse ownership.
I’ve been around horses my entire life. I’ve successfully rehabbed and rehomed several horses with behavioral issues. My best horse was one that had gone through 7 homes, three auctions in a short time because of behavior issues and we were able to overcome that and have been together for 15 years now. All this experience didn’t prepare me for what I faced with a feral horse I got two years ago. The project was a dismal failure. I worked with several trainers and for each step forward we had, there were two steps back. Ultimately, you couldn’t let your guard down with this horse ever. She was highly reactionary and you could not trust her. Things you would do with a normal horse, as typically outlined in those horsey how-to books, you could not do with this horse. While she wasn’t a Mustang, she had several traits in common with them. The skills necessary to successfully gentle, train and ride a Mustang only come from years of experience at a level more than just casual backyard ownership, trail riding and weekend warrior showing. Even my lifetime with horses, including training horses with behavioral issues, wasn’t enough. Is it really worth putting yourself in harms way for a horse that, from a conformational and ability standard, will most likely be a mediocre performer at best and a challenge on a daily basis? Add to this your desire for a mare, and the fact that mares can be more difficult to handle and train while they’re in heat, might be piling on the challenges unnecessarily. Ultimately, horse activities are supposed to be fun, and to me, dangerous horses that I can’t trust aren’t fun.
If you are interested in supporting a mustang, perhaps sponsoring a trainer for the Extreme Mustang Makeover might be something more in line with your skill set? This could be a networking opportunity for you as well. By working with these trainers, maybe one will have a finished horse who is one of those rare exceptions to the rule that will work for you so you can get yourself a finished product to move forward with. Many of these EMM trainers are exceptionally gifted and could use the support.
Please proceed with extreme caution and err on the side of safety. By taking on a horse you are not prepared to handle and train properly, you are not doing yourself or the horse any favors. The market for these horses is incredibly small and even smaller for one that hasn’t been properly handled from day one.
Talk to Andi Harmon, the lady that has spent decades working with the feral horses in that area, the one that wrote the very interesting feral horse book “Oregon’s Living Legends”, full of that information you are looking for here, in great detail.
Can’t find a more expert expert than her, when it comes to feral horses.
Also, those horses there were for decades managed by local ranchers, that turned very good stallions out there, because they later caught and used the horses themselves.
The horses there are more the kind of horse we can ride, good size and conformation many of those.
Still, being raised wild, they just won’t be as accommodating to work with as those horses raised around people.
As a teenager, our riding center, that trained horses to sell for other riding schools, would get around 15 horses, two truck loads of feral horses to start thru the summer.
We started them, the instructor, then in his 70’s, did the ground work, showing me how to do it, then I was the test pilot.
We started two sets when I was 15 and 16 and from those 29 horses, all did ok, were good school horses to go on with safely at three months, but one beautiful mare we found had a previous back injury that made her unsuitable to ride and a little horse that, after we worked with him for almost three years and he just was never safe to be around, was way too overreactive, we made a cart horse out of him, where he shined.
So, no, all those feral horses, with that kind of totally wild upbringing, are not easy to work with, especially for someone that has not years of experience first and/or is guided by someone that has that previous experience.
OP, all the book and internet learning won’t really help when you find yourself face to face with that kind of horse, no matter how many fancy ideas we get about how we can tame the wild horse so many stories tell.
As someone said, it is not fair to the horse either to end up in someone’s hands that doesn’t know what they are doing.
The horse’s quality of life may depend on getting the best start in life that we can manage for them, so he is assured a good home, that will appreciate that horse for what we want in our horses, which is not a half wild horse you have to risk so much to have around and work with as some end up with, when they don’t know what they are doing, or end up with a really tough, rank one.
If someone really wants to work with feral horses, go to the source, don’t put the horse before the cart and buy one, expecting then to learn on the go.
Working and starting feral horses is not a DIY project that won’t matter how many mistakes are made.
The horse’s life may depend on becoming a horse that can live in the human world, that horse and the humans around it safe, or it won’t end well, for someone.
Start by finding a way to watch and help start horses, all kinds, then see if you still think getting a feral horse to start will make sense to you, once you have the skills to do so.
This is like saying that because you knew a crazy standardbred, that obviously all thoroughbreds are crazy because both breeds race.
If the horse isn’t a mustang, you didn’t work with a mustang. And even if you had, that is like saying every pit bull is going to eat a child because one did. It is an unfair bias.
It is an unfair statement to say that every mustang will be highly reactionary, untrustworthy, and dangerous, especially when you weren’t even working with one.
Now, I am not saying that training mustangs is all rainbows and princess stories. I have seen mustangs that will never be adopted because they are just too crazy. I have also seen mustangs getting groomed by a gaggle of children a month after their adoption and acting like they had been doing it their whole life.
Now, OP has to have experience with training horses if OP wants to adopt a mustang, just as anyone who breaks any horse does. I will give you the same advice if you are planning on working with and breaking a mustang or braking a 2 year old warmblood; if you haven’t done it before, find someone else to do it for you.
But saying that every mustang is dangerous? That is just ridiculous and I would point out the thousands of people who successfully adopt and work with them as proof otherwise. Didn’t a mustang just win/place highly at pony finals a year or so ago? I personally know one in jumpers, and when I was on the west coast one who did quite will in hunters with an AA.
I remember in one of my Buck Brannaman clinics someone asking him about mustangs because they got the impression that he didn’t like them. His answer was somewhere along the lines of what we may be seeing here. People romanticize mustangs, sort of like the Black Stallion Syndrome, whereby they get the feel-goods about taking a part of the “Wild West” and taming it themselves and everyone living happily ever after.
What he didn’t like about mustangs wasn’t necessarily the horses themselves, but that 1) they are so cheap that anyone can buy them and so people think they’ll just get a great bargain, 2) many or most people who buy them are unqualified to start and handle a horse like that, so that 3) they end up in a clinic with a half-ruined horse, the mess of which they created in the first place. He can help the horses, it is the people who need the help.
I will add that, from all the many feral horses we started, most, once you got your hands on them, came along just fine and in a few weeks you could not tell they had been feral any more.
In fact, we went in some fall parades with some of those horses and they did fine, not any more looky than domestic colts we started at the same time, they had learned to give us their attention when scared, if we were paying attention.
Then, a few took longer, but so do some domestic colts that are tougher than others.
I’ve had contact with mustangs that were being worked with by a local trainer. What I saw in those horses and the horse I had were very similar - eerily so - so I think the comparison is appropriate. I spent over $10,000 in vets and trainers and we never could quite get things straightened out. I’m no newbie and will handle any horse on the ground but this horse was on a whole other level, as were the mustangs. Now, that’s not saying that mustangs can’t become solid citizens because they can. I wholly believe that in the right hands, they can be contributing members to society, but it take a lot of work and almost a disproportionate amount of work compared to a domesticated horse. Output doesn’t equal input.
The OP by their own statement doesn’t have advanced training experience (quote from the Cherry Hill post - bold is mine):
In reading the OP’s posts about the mustangs they like, it’s clear they lack the basic fundamental knowledge of how a horse should move. I can understand not knowing the mechanics of why a horse isn’t moving properly, but I expect my intermediate teenage lesson riders to be able to see that a horse isn’t tracking strait, coming underneath itself or that a horse is paddling up front. This basic concept of “something’s NQR” is the foundation for understanding conformation and I would use their insight to the horse being off to educate them as to why the horse moves that way. But without that recognition of the issue at all, it’s hard. The OP just doesn’t have that skill yet, which is concerning considering that they wish to embark on a challenge suited only for the most astute and insightful trainers. If the OP can’t visualize incorrect movement, will they be able to recognize subtle body language displays in these horses before the horses react?
Just my opinion, but this has trainwreck written all over it.
Thanks for your honesty.
I’m aware a lot of people will agree with you, and you might end up being right, but I feel in my gut that this is what I want to do and that I will figure it out. I’m not going in alone, though; I would definitely have a trainer that I really trust and admire help me pick them out and oversee most, if not all, of the training.
I’m not an advanced horse person, as I’ve said, and recognize that I will face a lot more things I don’t immediately understand and at times may be unprepared to deal with right away than if I waited 10 years, or just didn’t take on a mustang at all. But I’ve decided I’m OK with that, and will set myself up to have very qualified advice and help when (not if) those situations come up.
I feel I genuinely have a good enough base of understand horse behavior and the most common training methodologies, have ridden english (BASIC dressage, up to 3 ft jumping), on pack trips, in amateur rodeo, in (non-dude ranch) cattle drives, in western pleasure (competitively), and in general barn management, that I feel I am up to this.
You may disagree, and that’s OK. Like I said, you may end up being right, and in that case, it’ll have added an experience to the pile which I’ve learned from. I don’t think this’ll be easy, but I DO think that I have a strong enough background to be safe (regarding both myself and the horse), and to learn a lot from the horse I pick.
I’ll also add that I am not going to do this TOMORROW. It should have been obvious to you, seeing as you seem to have read through all my posts, that I am trying to learn a LOT more BEFORE I do this. It will probably be at least 3 more years, if not 5 or 6, before I have the logistics worked out, and am looking at actual personal prospects with a qualified trainer at a facility.
OP.
I mean this as kindly, as gently as possible - before one skis the Black Diamond slopes on the rugged steppes of the Alps, one first dips their toes in the gently lolling hills of Green Hill.
With horses, it is not so different - one does, or should not, vault across the snake pit without first looking down.
A mustang is a very different type of horse than any other - partially because of their instinct, and partially because you have to overcome years of autonomous survival - that is NOT easy for anyone to do, even experienced horse-people. Things that are easy to teach a foal or a pony as simple as picking up their hooves is a colossal, herculean task to teach to an adult mustang - their M/O is “defense at all costs, whenever necessary”.
I appreciate your eye for challenge and eagerness to learn. If I were you, I would start with a simple project first (under the guidance of a trainer, of course) like having your first horse. Believe me, that is not as simple as it sounds.
A mustang has been on my “bucket list” since I was a kid as well. My TBs spend lots of time keeping me on my toes, so I’ll be ready for one in forty years, or so :winkgrin:
I would agree with snowflake and Beowulf that it does not sound as though OP Is ready to do this on their own. However I would disagree with mustangs being harder than other horses to trach simple tasks; as soon as they realize you are a friend they train very fast, on par with a domestic horse. In my experience most mustangs decide you are a friend right around when you feed them grain for the first time. For most animals food=good.
However, you have to know how to pick um. And I don’t think OP has this knowledge yet. OP, if you go down this path, find a really good trainer to do all the beginning work for you. Also know that you can’t just get a mustang, there are requirements like a 5 foot tall fence and a stock trailer.
And look for the skinny, beat up one. The lower on the totem pole ones are usually easier and friendlier, in my experience. Not that training any horse, of any breed, is easy.
I certainly get where you’re coming from.
I know there’ll be a lot of head shaking as I go, but as you might have picked up on, I’ve always been the person who learned to swim by seeing a tutorial and jumping into the deeper water, and who was taught to ski by my dad taking me down blacks when I was 6. It meant that I fell a lot, but I wore a helmet, and improved a lot faster than my cousins and friends. Seriously.
Are ski slopes and horses the same? No. You’re dealing with an individual animal who you can’t predict exactly what it’s going to do.
Am I hard headed and stubborn? Yes. Probably naive, too. But some of the best learning experiences I’ve had in my life have been prompted by those traits (moving to Istanbul to live with a family I’d never met last spring, applying to an extremely selective university an ocean away when I barely met the requirements [and getting in, and attending]). This is my M.O., what I have learned from my experiences in life. And unfortunately, due to some very scary and sad life or death situations with my loved ones, I know that you can’t bet on just doing something in 30 years. You never know if you’ll be around then, or even in 3 years. Does that mean that green plus green equals gold? No. But I think that I will have set myself up with a solid enough base to be safe (!) and in a position to actually get somewhere, and develop a mutually educational relationship with the animal.
While I may take the advice to start with starting a domestic horse first, I’m not going to learn to do something by not doing it, or by counting on ‘one day’. I know this is NOT the life philosophy of a lot of people, I get that.
All of your advice is probably coming from a place you are confident in, and from your own life and equine experiences. As it is, I won’t be talked out of doing this, but if people have specific advice on what I can do in the interim to learn as much as possible and set myself up for success, than I am ALL EARS.
Thanks, I’m aware of all of the requirements, and as I’ve said, would have a trainer with me to pick on out, help me design a transitional diet, oversee the initial facility I’d house it in, and closely supervise and instruct me with the training.
I (OBVIOUSLY) am planning on learning a hell of a lot more before I even get that far, thus these threads.
One other thought to add on the hang-on-and-reevaluate-before-you-get-a-mustang theme:
If you take on a mustang, it’s not just about you and what you want. You’re responsible for making a feral horse a good citizen, full stop. It’s no longer about what you want, it’s about what that horse will need to become a decent member of domestic equine society. And if you’re underprepared for what a feral horse can throw at you, it’s not just bad news for you. It’s bad news for that horse, too.
Your circumstances may change, and if they do your horse has the best possible chance of landing somewhere safe if they have a safe and reliable set of skills. I would (and do) give the same advice to someone looking to buy a young horse without having experience with young horses; the only difference is that the buyer pool is even shallower for older feral horses.
Highly recommend getting experience with young (domesticated) horses before you sign up for a mustang. Highly recommend getting training experience with a dressage schoolmaster (if that’s what you want to pursue) prior to the young horse.
If you want to learn before you get your feet wet, definitely hook up with one of the trainers that has taken multiple horses through the mustang makeover-type programs. Preferably one that has won or placed highly multiple times. I don’t know where you’re located, so I can’t offer any names (I seem to recall you mentioned exporting, so maybe not in the US?). Observing and asking questions won’t give you the hands on tools, but it might help you better understand the what/why of training a horse like this.
If you haven’t trained a domestic horse on your own, I have to say it’s probably quite dangerous to jump straight to an adult mustang off the range. However, I don’t know your history like some of the other posters and I do think you should continue to educate yourself on conformation and selecting the best horse for your desires. This is one of those “you don’t know what you don’t know” scenarios and the more you know the better off you’ll be!
That and, keep in mind that making a wild horse a “good citizen” is not an easy task, and it really is not for a novice. Think of how many rank horses that are bad citizens there are out there, being handled daily - those are horses with human starts in their lives and they’re still not 100% manners-confirmed. I mean, the TB I consider my “magnum opus” as far as ground manners is perfectly handleable by me, but apparently, is not so well behaved for other people!! This is a horse who has hands run over him every day of his life from day 0. The people that handle your horse will have varying degrees of aptitude or ineptitude - you cannot control that – so you need to make sure that your horse is 100% reliable, day in, day out, no matter if the handler is 12 or 68 with 50 years of horsemanship… And that type of “reliable control” is VERY hard to install in an intelligent, autonomous horse.
Think of how many people your horse actually gets into contact with: you, the trainer, the barn owner, the manager, the vet, the farrier, any kids or staff that handle it, other horses - do you REALLY have the know-how to install a “yes ma’am” reaction of 100% compliance on an animal that has been entirely autonomous its entire life? It’s a very difficult task.
Do you know how to teach a wild horse to be caught? How about how to get close enough to a wild horse in the first place? Do you have a place that would be okay with you keeping said horse in the stall for a month, so it gets used to handling? How will you clean the stall with the horse in it, if you can’t get his halter on? What if you can’t even catch him? Have you ever been in a stall with a horse that is crawling out of the walls to get away from you? That isn’t something you gain “know-how” from by thumbing through a text-book.
When a mustang is caught and penned, it is usually kept with a neck-tie or a halter on 24/7. In my experience they are put in stalls for the first month, at least, until they are 100% confirmed catchable. They are very hard to catch even IN the stall, without putting yourself in danger. They are very aware of the concept of space and they won’t be malicious, but they don’t know you, they don’t know you are safe, and they will knock you over if it means they can get away from you. And then you have a wild, LOOSE horse on the premise and no, you will never be able to catch it. Reaching towards their heads will elicit 1 of 2 reactions: bite/kick, or spin away and bolt - both of which are very dangerous in a confined space.
Keep in mind you need to be able to move this horse to pick its stall, as under no uncertain terms can you pick a stall with a wild horse in it without being killed. Someone will have to move this horse to another stall? Will that be you, every day, before school or after work, to do it? How about when it comes time to move the horse back?
This is, of course, all assuming the horse will even walk alongside you when you try to pull it out. IME, most will bolt/run or just plant. That and, lots of wild horses really don’t understand doors and think they can’t go through a narrow entryway. I’ve spent an hour trying to get a horse out of a stall once - just because it had no idea what leading was.
Once it is semi-catchable, what if it needs treatment? What about farrier and vet? Do you know how to teach a wild adult horse to pick up a leg? Rest assured, the first time you TOUCH their leg they will kick out instinctively - it is not malicious, but you will spend HOURS “unlearning” this automatic behavior. Do you know what tools you need to do that? Hint - it isn’t your hands.
Then, being turned out - lots of mustangs have no idea what a fence is and yeah, they break it. You paying to replace it? How are you catching it when it’s loose?
This is also all assuming you can even find a barn that will accept a mustang. Here, the unanimous consensus is NO MUSTANGS/FERAL HORSES, full stop, period. Barn owners and workers don’t deserve to have their lives in jeopardy and barn routine ruined because someone wants a “fun project”.
At the bare minimum, if you don’t know how and HAVEN’T already installed these basics in a not feral horse, you are not ready to have a mustang:
This is all stuff we take for granted with domesticated horses because we do them, day in, and day out - many of us don’t realize these things are taught at an early, early age - as in before we got them – so we don’t realize accepting these things is something that was carefully installed in the horse.
Think of how hard it is to stop a trained horse when they bolt - you know they still respect the line in your hand and sometimes even then they can get away with you. Can you imagine an untrained mustang, who has never been told or shown the meaning of constraint?
A mustang will very much dissent with just about everything above: they don’t like to see humans, they don’t like to see humans advancing near them, they definitely don’t like to see humans holding objects, they don’t like their bodies being handled, they don’t like feeling vulnerable, and every new object is suspicious until they’ve convinced themselves otherwise.
OP, I don’t generally err on the side of caution, having been “one of those” people that got an OTTB I had no business getting as a 12 y/o, and then many after… However, do know you are putting other people’s lives at risk with your decision. A mustang that does not want to play is uncontrollable and dangerous at best and it will come at the cost of someone’s safety.
Noth and get a horse that is halter trained and gentled.
More info:
http://cowildhorse.org/resources/
http://mustangheritagefoundation.org/tip/
And also on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/177812269224731/
For example, if you scroll down, Mystique caught my eye - nice looking 3 year old mare in California by Hunter Horsemanship
[IMG]https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17426187_10158325465605237_2311815818747983025_n.jpg?oh=91a0c0b6d5f86becee7f0daf846c7643&oe=59962236)
Or th
[IMG]https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265540_1231266853630267_8699052710148365858_n.jpg?oh=99af6c8f99d29c6baaef6ff9e2f7432a&oe=595D0A4C)
But, but, that ruins the wonderful dream of taming a wild horse all by yourself.
Going in the wild yourself and feeding it out of your hand and then hopping on it’s back and riding off into the sunset, such a great connection established in a few minutes there by our great horse whispering talents.
Who doesn’t has such dreams?
Seems that no other horse will do, it has to be one untouched, feral HMO branded, guaranteed to come from the wilds somewhere.
The mystique has to be there, seems to be the driving force here.
Seriously, not making fun of dreams, but after asking and hearing the responses, the persistence of the imagery, when a horse’s best interest may hang on the balance, that is worrisome to some here.
As our instructor used to insist, no matter what we do, always put the horse first.
Do respect the horse for the horse it is.
Don’t subjugate horses to what we want, but find ways to do what we want with the horses we have.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
