You seem to be hard of reading. How many times have I explained that I will NOT be doing this either alone, or tomorrow?
Trust me, I understand. I have a LOT to learn in a LOT of areas of horsemanship; as it happens (and this isn’t just my opinion, but what I’ve been told by multiple trainers) is that when it comes to teaching or reteaching a horse manners, and almost, but not all of the numbered points you describe, I am actually better at than a lot of the riders around me who are many, many, many levels ahead in terms of riding and competitions. I may be a greenie in a lot of ways, but I have done, successfully, all of the things on that list except for trailering, some with multiple horses.
I would absolutely NOT want a halter put on the horse while being readied for loading at he BLM facility as that automatically reinforces that ‘this is a thing I don’t want being forced onto my head by a human; humans will force things on me that I don’t want’. I also, personally, would not stable a horse, I’d rather keep it in a medium round-pen SIZED run (with a three-sided shelter, obv.). I don’t know why anyone would put a feral horse in a stall, if they have no where to escape to I can imagine they’d be freaked out much worse when someone tries to work with them than if there’s enough space for press and release. Not to mention the toll that would take on their health (assuming there is no attached run).
My first priorities would be to build enough trust to catch, halter, and lead the horse. Then, desensitization beginning with other people, then desensitized to being touched a poked and messed with all over their body, then moving on to equipment, machinery, thermometers, intramuscular injections, intravenous injections, dogs, kids, cars, etc.
As it happens I would not take for granted any of the above points with domestic horses; I have known a ridiculous among of horses that are top performers under saddle, have a very capable rider and are allowed to behave ATROCIOUSLY on the ground.
The knowledge and understanding of horses I’ve seen you display here isn’t congruent with the experience you state you have. I really think you may be overestimating your ability and experience. I’m not sure you will be able to gain the experience you need to do this, and do this safely and successfully, in 4-5 years time.
Start working with a trainer. Get some weanlings and yearlings to take through horsey kindergarten. Teach them to halter, lead, pick up their feet, load on a trailer and generally be good citizens. Then maybe move up to an OTTB. Volunteer at rescues to work with horses who are older and have never been started. Do this for several years (8-10) with a trainer and establish a solid success rate. Then I think you might be ready to go down this path.
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You put them in the stall because you will not be able to catch a wild horse in a round pen or a run. I invite you to try. If you cannot halter or catch the horse, you cannot work with it to teach it to be a good citizen.
The safest, best thing for a mustang in a new place is a stall, period. You absolutely do not want to be in an open area with a loose mustang.
Sometimes the method of extraction is worse than the extraction. Most people I know that have adopted mustangs, the horse comes with a halter or neck rope already on the horse - you have to back up the trailer to the barn or the paddock, open the door, and pray for the best.
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Funny thing, isn’t it, trying to know everything about someone’s horsemanship abilities from a few threads online?
I’m sorry, I just have to disagree with you there.
While it sounds like you have FAR more experience than I do in most areas of horsemanship, I do have to wonder if you’ve researched much to do specifically regarding training mustangs. A simple YouTube search pulls up lots of videos of the first few days after unloading mustangs (into RUNS.)
Let me help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4J7yNGP9Yw
In terms of halters, some facilities allow you to pick whether you want one put on or not.
Well, you will have to trust me - because I have experience with this sort of thing. You do not put wild or feral horses in big open spaces right away. Otherwise, you’ll continue to have a wild/feral horse instead of a slowly-domestic one. Do you disagree with the BLM as well? Because that’s what they suggest too.
And that comes down to the crux of the problem - how on earth can you have enough of an opinion to disagree with someone with experience, when you don’t have experience in the first place?
What happens when someone, real-time, tells you XYZ must be so, for XYZ reasons - do you argue with them as well?
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But, but, but… he needs to be FREE beowulf! OP, the BLM recommends a space no more than 20x20 for the gentling process. That’s the size of a large foaling stall.
And, OP your observation about top performance horses again shows a lack of knowledge. Top performance horses are like Ferraris. You don’t buy a Ferrari and complain that it’s not a safe, dependable family car. Top sport horses are a totally different beast that seem to be in “go mode” more often than your standard backyard packer. That’s what makes them top performance horses. A lot of riders choose not to train that fire out of them because it’s what makes them good.
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Bold is mine, I 100% agree with you. I meant the process to earning their trust is the hardest part - I think they are just as clever, if not more clever, than other horses… it’s just breaking the ice that is incredibly, incredibly difficult. It’s not something that happens in the matter of a few weeks. And it’s, honestly, something I’ve found a lot of GOOD trainers don’t have the tools for – they have the tools to teach the horse, once it is controllable – but they lack the patience or the experience or know-how to “gentle” the horse.
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Check my edit. Found a nice link for you.
I’ve been in the horse world my entire life and have a pretty good sense of who knows their stuff and who doesn’t just by how they talk about horses. There is a language to horsemanship and you’re not fluent in it yet.
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Like I said: back up trailer, unload into paddock, hope for the best, halter on already on the horse.
Looks like the horse in your link was already gentled, or at the very least, had human contact before.
Some holding pens are better than others, OP. Some do have gentling programs, like Bluey mentioned above. SOme don’t and the horse that gets off the trailer is as wild as the day it was rounded up. Others are born in the holding pens and spend their lives in there, and are essentially not wild at all.
That may be so. Beyond what is indisputably evident from what I have said here, though, any further assumptions about my equine background are just that: assumptions.
Whoa! There are a lot of misconceptions being thrown around here!!
I’ve never heard of sticking them in a stall and have never needed to, nor does it meet the BLM requirements!
The BLM requires a MINIMUM 20x20 OUTSIDE corral.
You can read it for yourself here: https://www.blm.gov/adoptahorse/requirements.php
- An outside corral with a minimum of 400 square feet (20x20) per animal. Corral should not be too large (more than 50x50), as animals are easier to gentle in smaller corrals.
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I beg to disagree, a halter with a long lead lets you start teaching a horse right away to respond to you, if you use it as a way to communicate, not force a horse that doesn’t understand humans yet.
Our feral horses came to us with a halter with a long lead that was put on them before they loaded them, or we , very carefully, put them on them over the sides of the truck when they arrived, packed in there like sardines.
Most came to us just a few days after they were caught and hauled into our area, so they were as wild as deer, had to be handled very carefully or they would run into fences, etc.
That halter being there is what let us right away establish the kind of rapport with them that let us take advantage of the horse being in a completely new situation and not having time yet to develop defensive habits, only learning what we were teaching right along, that their new world was scary, but not hurting them.
We had a good system to desensitize them right away, being careful not to do it wrong and so over sensitize them and making their wildness overwhelm them and so not be able to learn, too worried about getting away.
Most times it didn’t take long to approach, start touching and working with them, which we did a few times a day.
Horses were kept in a stall and led with a quiet old horse to a communal trough to drink several times a day, also every time we took them out to work with them.
A few we even were riding the first time we handled them, very, very carefully, most took a few days.
One horse, the instructor was getting a little too fresh with the new horse and the horse pawed at him and we had to stop and get the instructor to the hospital for stitches on his scalp.
He was blaming himself, said he knew the horse was warning him off and was too slow to retreat.
That is the only time that happened the years I was there.
We had our system, but there are many other ways to go about it, in the West roping them to start handling them is one.
If someone really wants to watch how some go about this, get the videos of The Road of The Horse colt starting competitions and watch what they do there, each trainer according to what their colt shows them.
One especially interesting is Stacy Westfall, her colt really overreactive, compared with the others and how she made every move in that round pen count toward’s connecting with the colt without pushing him over the top.
The other trainers that year went much faster, their colts ready to learn right away.
It looked like she would not get much done, what was going on so subtle, people were getting tired of watching seemingly not much going on, compared with all the activity in the other pens.
What do you know, when it was time to perform, the other horses, that had not been “proofed” much, they were learning fast and seemed to just cruise along, now were showing how insecure and little real basics they had installed, while Stacy’s colt, that didn’t know half what they knew, was so attuned that she could tell him what to do that was new and he complied and gave it a try, where others balked.
All were great, no easy feat to do that, but her more difficult colt gave her, in the end, the advantage, because she did what he needed, not what she would have done with another colt and so got the most of the situation.
She also won, but in that environment, everyone was a winner, it could have gone any one way, no easy feat that.
It really is not hard to start any horse, feral horses not hard either, if you have started quiet horses before and if who is doing it knows what they are doing, but you need to work under someone that does know and even then accidents happen.
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Maybe watch the video. The horse has been around people; she grew up in a holding pen. She has never been HANDLED apart from when they chase her into a chute for immunisations and to rasp her feet down.
Look into Alayne Blickle and Matt Livengood in southwestern Idaho. She is a volunteer member of the Boise BLM District’s Resource Advisory Council. They’ve adopted Mustangs to train. I think Alayne is keeping the one she currently has, but I’m pretty sure the one Matt has now will be adoptable after the 100 day challenge going on now.
http://www.sweetpepperranch.com/
"Alayne Renée Blickle, a life-long equestrian and reining competitor, is the creator/director of Horses for Clean Water, an award winning, nationally acclaimed environmental education program. Well known for her enthusiastic, fun and down-to-earth approach, Alayne is an educator and photojournalist who has worked with horse and livestock owners for over 15 years teaching manure composting, pasture management, mud and dust control, water conservation, chemical use reduction and wildlife enhancement. She teaches and travels around North America as well as writing for horse publications, including the weekly blog, Smart Horse Keeping, for TheHorse.com.
Matt Livengood has been a National Reining Horse Association judge since 1999. His interests range from training and showing reining horses to working with young horses, trail riding and helping others to learn about and enjoy horses. Matt joins Alayne in their plans to share a wide range of positive experiences with horses and riders."
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Good info, thanks!
Thanks for finding that.
So… in other words, she’s been handled. :rolleyes:
I did watch the video - that’s a video of a horse who’s been handled by people.
My understanding of the BLM’s contract is that the horse must have at least 20x20 outdoor pen - which really just means, to me, paddock space - not that it has to live in it when it first gets there. I didn’t see anything about it being required it has to be in there 24/7. That’s all fine and dandy, but most barns aren’t going to let a horse be out in a big open space until it’s catchable. Most barns also need quarantine.
No barn I have ever been in has accepted a feral/wild horse without it first spending at least 2-3 weeks to a month in isolated quarantine/stall.
I think you’d be surprised how few barns accept project-mustang boarders. It must be different out west.
I think it’s an unfailingly, colossally stupid idea for anyone who has never had a horse before, much less trained any horse in any capacity, to just get a mustang. Seems to be that’d be Darwin’s survival of the fittest employed in action.
No one is saying “never get a mustang” – plenty of people are saying “get another horse first”.
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