Since you’re new here I’m going to give you some guidance on the rules of the road. COTH doesn’t hold punches. We are a solid group of experienced horse people and you can get some pretty fantastic advice here, but we aren’t bunny huggers. We don’t take people’s word for it, and if you’re talking out your rear end, embellishing or otherwise telling fairy tales, you’ll get found out pretty quick. I would say our general attitude is “prove me wrong” and if you do, we’re pretty quick to admit our defeat and apologize. Just don’t give the wolf pack a reason to go hunting is all I’m going to say.
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Don’t worry, miss snowflake. I don’t much put much stock in either ‘fairytales’ or ‘wolf packs’, and don’t want much to do with either. To be honest I don’t really care whether you think you’ve got me all figured out, although I’m kind of confused as to why you think you know me better than I do without ever having met me.
I see lots of folks mess up buying just your basic young “domesticated” horse that comes to them halter broke and somewhat socialized to humans. I wouldn’t recommend most amateurs take on an unbroke horse. Adding feral and fearful to the mix won’t make it easier.
Also, interesting about the fact that some of these horses are living years in holding pens, or even being born there.
I always thought that part of the health and strength of the mustang was from extensive freedom and foraging from birth onwards. That’s what weeds out the weaklings, and makes their feet develop hard and tough, and makes them smart and canny about trails and the great outdoors. But if a mustang was captured as a foal or yearling and kept in basically big corrals 24/7 for a few years or more, fed hay, or born in those conditions, is it going to develop all the great mustang characteristics? Or is it going to be closer to just some grade stock pony kept on some acreage by a hoarder who never did any training? Plenty of those go to auction every day of the week.
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So you’ve been keeping mustangs quarantined in a stall for several weeks at a time?
It’s quite sad. I personally wouldn’t want a mustang that’s been born in a holding facility, as logic would suggest that you’re right; I’m sure they miss out on a whole lot of survival education. While horses don’t breed once captured, many mares that are captured are pregnant and so give birth in a holding facility. The foals still have the genetic strengths (and weaknesses) of the parents, and will grow up in a large pen of mares, likely with a few other foals, but they won’t actually grow up in the wild.
Since you mentioned you are not very advanced, I will humor you as you may not know this:
As a general rule, to protect a barn’s business and livelihood, any new horse should always be quarantined for at least three weeks before being allowed in the main barn. There are several reasons to quarantine a new-arrival - the first is to isolate the new horse and protect the existing “herd” from any unknown or un-presented diseases - strangles is especially a concern when handling a horse with unknown origins that came from a feedlot or holding pen. Strangles has a several week incubation period - so many BOs will quarantine a horse for at least 3 weeks in light of this. The second reason is so that, in isolation, you can watch the new arrival carefully and quickly pick up on any potential outbreaks before they happen. In order to be effective, all quarantined horses must have their own isolated stall[s]s away from the main barn, they must have their own tools (muck buckets, pitch forks, etc) that are never allowed to leave the quarantine barn, and preferably, their own ‘quarantine handler’ to mitigate the risks of cross-contamination within a farm.
As a BM, yes, I have had horses quarantined. The minimum quarantine protocol most people seem to follow is a three week/30 day quarantine.
For feral horses, most barns don’t have a small holding cell they can put a horse in, or even run-ins, for that matter. The best thing I have seen for wild/feral horses is for them to be housed in a stall during quarantine period and until they can accept being handled and caught. I stand by my statement that the safest place for a new arrival, feral/wild horse is a stall. Until it is catchable or handleable, that is where it stays. That could take a matter of days, or it could span the entire quarantine.
Again, I can’t think of a barn here, in the NE, that would accept a project-mustang. So if you’re boarding out, beyond training worries, you also will need to worry about being able to actually board this horse somewhere. As a kid I distinctly remember ONE being accepted at the farm where I took lessons, and it was a trainwreck in every sense of the word; to the point where their contract was amended to exclude all mustangs.
The set up in that video is not a common set-up here, in the NE. Run-in-sheds are rare as hens-teeth here and the wait-list to get into them is a mile long. Most barns have stalls with near-by paddocks (with shelters) - very few have adjacent runs like that.
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You’ll probably be utterly shocked to hear that am, in fact, familiar with quarantine. What I am shocked to hear is that it sounds like you have been keeping a horse in a STALL (correct me if I’m wrong, but a 12ft x 12ft space in most barns I’ve been at), without ANY turnout, 24/7 for WEEKS AT A TIME?
You seem like a nice person, and obviously have more experience than I do, but I find that really appalling based on the knowledge that I do have.
If you can provide a full explanation for why you would do that that defends those actions with evidence that contradicts these articles, I am all ears.
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/25106/consequences-of-stall-confinement
http://www.crktrainingblog.com/horse-care/turnout/
https://www.thespruce.com/importance-of-turnout-for-your-horse-1886932
http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-keeping/why-horses-need-the-herd.aspx
I’d also like to address what you consider ‘handling’. Are you aware that every single BLM mustang that has been captured, lived in a BLM facility, and been adopted, has been ‘handled’, if by handled you mean being chased into a chute for immunizations, deworming, and to have their feet rasped down?
Horses also go on stall rest for leg injuries. They get a bit restless, but it’s better than them re-fracturing a leg or blowing out the suspensory before it heals.
Quarantine is a very good idea, though I don’t know many barns that actually do it. Obviously if you have the facilities, you can quarantine in a pen secluded from the other horses. If you don’t have pens, though, it would need to be in a stall. Quarantine and stall rest for injuries are both accepted ideas in horse management, and necessary evils (that is better than the alternative) that do not equate with just locking up a horse and abandoning it.
Obviously if the horse is broke, you could take it out for rides or hand walks if you could keep away from other horses. But if it isn’t broke, I’m not really sure what you could do with it. I can see why the BLM rules want you to have a steel pipe paddock for the horse, and I can also see why most barns wouldn’t welcome a truly feral horse before it had been trained to be indistinguishable from the other horses.
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/27924/creating-a-horse-quarantine
There is a great deal of information out there on horse quarantine, and also on managing horses on extended stall rest for injuries (just as an example of how horses can be kept locked up for extended periods of time). Not great necessarily, but not the end of the world, and sometimes necessary.
OP, I’m surprised you didn’t run across examples of both in your previous barn jobs?
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One barn job, plenty of different barns I’ve ridden at over the years.
I admit, I have a hell of a lot to learn, but I can’t imagine why someone would want mustangs if they didn’t have the facilities to quarantine them and gentle them in where they wouldn’t be at a unnecessarily and unusually high risk for colic (or developing ulcers, or poor behavioral habits, or just being miserable in general). Also consider that these horses have lived in herds their entire lives, even in large social groups in the holding facilities. Being taken from that, in a long trailer ride, which already increases the risk for colic, no matter how well it’s managed, then separated from all other horses, even each other, without the room to move and digest as they’ve evolved to, for WEEKS on end. That is a very, very extreme change from their previous environment, and would be dangerous and stressful. I can’t imagine it.
I don’t think anyone should take on a horse if they don’t have the facilities to safely transition it from where they were to the new facility, especially a feral horse.
Keeping a horse in a non-quarantine stall when directed by a vet for a period of time I can understand, but there are substantial differences. That horse could be put on stall rest during the day and turned out at night, or vice versa, or the stall could have a run for some amount of movement. That horse could also be stalled next to other horses which it can see and interact with, and walked at least once daily by a handler.
Yeah, I don’t think the intention is that you should just have a pen “available” of that size. :lol: It’s pretty obvious they expect you to PUT the horse directly into the pen, until such time as it is “gentled” and can at least wear a halter and be led. Pen size is for the safety of both animal AND human. Big enough to get away, small enough to stay engaged.
Every single trainer of mustangs I know out here in the ol’ wild west would never, absolutely EVER put an unhandled mustang straight into a stall. To put it nicely, that is a very ignorant thing to do, and I’m surprised nobody in the situations you’ve seen has been seriously injured or just plain killed.
You are right in that “most barns” (boarding) are not going to accept these horses. They are really better suited to adopters who own or lease their own facility/barn/acreage and have the proper set up. Whether or not the OP is capable of training one, the BLM will allow the adoption as long as OP can provide the required facilities and has permission from whomever owns them. Hopefully, with the help and close guidance of a very good trainer, it will be a success.
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I have never, ever, been told that you should put a wild horse, unhaltered, loose in a paddock. An uncatchable horse goes in a restricted-sized pen or stall, period. The halter stays on until the horse is reliable to catch.That anyone would suggest otherwise is incredibly irresponsible and ignorant to the daily struggles of the poor people that actually have to deal with the horse: the BARN workers. No one has been hurt or killed in my experiences because they actually knew what they were doing.
You can either chose to gentle them in the stall, or work with them in a pen. Truly wild, unhandled horses, IME, have been put in stalls until they understand humans are OK. This is because it is much safer for all involved in its care - barn workers don’t have to move it/handle it, if it gets loose, it’s only loose in the barn, not, godforbid, actually loose like what happens in the event it breaks through fencing. If it is in a paddock, it becomes uncatchable, which makes it a big liability to the barn and barn workers. It also gives it enough room to spin, buck, bolt, charge, and run down anyone attempting to catch it.
I have also never, ever been informed that someone with no horse-training skills ought to get a mustang. But I guess there is a first for everything. To put it kindly, them people in the “ol’ west” that think this is okay are ignorant.
There is a woman local to me who is part of the MM, possibly even the very same woman that quietann referred to in one of OP’s threads - I hold her in high esteem. Her protocol is to keep them stalled when they first arrive and gentle them in a round pen, but she does not ever turn them out in a big paddock until they are confirmed catchable.
If the BLM is expecting a horse to live outside 24/7, they are being unrealistic. I’m pretty sure the BLM has a good idea that most mustangs have stall time. It’s part and parcel of this day’s horse keeping. It’s also a key component to quarantine. If the BLM actually adopts out to someone like the OP, that is grossly negligent and a huge disservice to the horse.
After reading OP’s other threads, her responses to other people, I’ve come to the conclusion that the poor trainer she involves is going to have a harder time training HER than the actual mustang.
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I call bullshit.
Clearly you haven’t followed the BLM requirements, and have swerved in your answers from citing them to discrediting them.
Sorry for calling you on that.
I may not have been the head manager at a barn like it sounds like you have, but what’s ridiculous is that I am the one who can tell, based on basic knowledge of horses, that what it sounds like you have been doing has been a cop-out solution that does both horse and handler a disservice.
@beowulf I am fairly certain you are trying to reason with a surly thirteen year old. Never, ever, in the history of the world has that ever gone well.
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Oh goodness gracious, calling me a teenager! Never have I been so offended in ‘in this history of the world’!
I’d far rather be a ‘surly thirteen year old’ who is able to explain and support her arguments than a petty randomer who adds nothing of value to the discussion.
Beowulf has offered some excellent advice to about how (s)he has approached gentling mustangs, and while I can’t understand part of her methodology, much of what (s)he has said makes sense and has contributed to this thread. I wish I could say the same for you.
I have some excellent advice after reading through three threads as you sound increasingly ignorant and irrational:
Take lots of lessons from an experienced professional.
You repeatedly say–in all of your threads-- that you will find a trainer to work with.
Why on earth aren’t you working with a trainer now when you know nothing, Jon Snow?
After you have spent an extraordinary amount of time and money learning about horses, buy a nice quiet middle aged trained horse.
Good luck.
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Ah, a Game of Thrones reference. Points for that one. I’m not working with a trainer now because I just finished my time at uni and have been traveling and working abroad for the year. I’m planning on getting back into horses hopefully sometime next year, and several years after that pursuing the mustang thing. In the meantime I’m trying to learn as much as I can about things I should think about, and since I’m not around a barn right now, reading and discussing and learning as much as I can in general.
Speaking to the discipline specific preferences for conformation: I met a girl and her horse recently. My unspoken thoughts were, “that’s an unfortunate looking little beastie.” IMO it was plain-looking, short and fat with tiny feet and less than adequate bone. My horse is a jumper you see. To me he is breath-taking with his striking markings, legs for days and regal presense.
I found out that this young woman was from another discipline who considered her horse to be gorgeous and special. She said her other horse was lousy; all legs and sscawny. She probably thought mine was an unfortunate looking beastie!
My horse has some excellent conformation traits for jumper, but he would make a lousy quarter horse!
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Haha, so true.
I was reminded by someone on here a couple days ago that if you ask two horse people a question you’ll get three opinions back.
Don’t look too closely at cutting horses.
There was this little scrawny mare, that ended up world champion in several categories, Lynx Melody, 13.3 hands on tiptoes:
https://www.aqha.com/museum/hall-of-…l/lynx-melody/
She did look fine as a mature mare later, but still very tiny, to have been able to perform like she did.
Then there was Seldom Seen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seldom_Seen
Guess everyone here knows his story.
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