Distance/Jumping/Not feeling like a loser advice.

Hi everyone, I read a lot on here but rarely post. Hoping I can borrow some expertise or at least have someone make me feel better!

Short backstory is that I have a really nice horse — way nicer than I should — and definitely do a lot more with him than I used to. When I bought him 2’3” was a big deal to me. He is young and is a total dope… the horse is your definition of a “dumb blood.” Anyways we now school much higher.

I am a very independent adult amateur so do a lot more on my own than most. Of course I suck at distances, and apparently my horse does as well. I was told by my trainer I’ve been helping him too much… he’s the type of horse that can take down an entire jump and not care less. So instead of always giving him the distance (to the best of my ability), I am letting him figure it out.

Not even sure the purpose of my post, but I’ve been feeling down when I make mistakes that cause a stop or a rail, etc. I know no one is perfect and this is part of the process, but still. For example, after several days of fantastic riding, this happens ugh. He only stops when it is distance-related, and obviously he thought he could squeeze just one more in. I assumed most horses will go for the long spot but now understand this isn’t true at all. He had jumped it two minutes before and of course no problem after.

I am sure I am doing a million things wrong, but I guess that’s why we aren’t professionals, right? Can anyone else sympathize with me and tell me I’m not ruining my horse?

TIA!!

He strikes me as a lovely, kind horse. So don’t lose hope. Not a dirty stopper whatsoever IMO.

Stop jumping without a trainer. It’s that simple. Making your mistakes repeatedly causes bad habits in you and your horse. So just stop and you won’t ruin him. You’re doing some funny things with your hands, shoulders, eyes, and seat…and you need a pro to help you through that.

There are so many things you can do on the flat and with poles. Practice your distances that way.

He could also benefit from some pro rides to reinstall his confidence over fences.

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I agree with above.

Any trainer should tell you how important dressage is for a jumping horse. The rider needs how to do it as well.

You have a lovely journey in front of you learning dressage :rolleyes:

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I can sympathize with the feeling, OP.

As a side note, I would agree with Gertie about not jumping on your own, or at least not jumps that are anywhere near high enough to get the stop if you miss.

i think the concept of “letting him figure out” distances is a little bit of a red herring. He has figured them out - that’s why he stopped at the miss instead of crashing through. In the video, he wasn’t carrying enough impulsion for him to take the long one, you didn’t see that you needed to move up until 2 strides out, you made a big move with your body/aids that he pretty much ignored, and then he stopped instead of chipping in for you. It would have been nice if he’d hopped over it anyway, but it’s a big enough jump that you’re in the territory of excusable self-preservation for the majority of horses. At this point I don’t think you’re ruining him, but I also don’t think that he’ll magically turn into a horse that jumps anything no matter what. You’re like the rest of us mere mortals who need to keep working on riding better, and more consistently :-). Story of my riding life, seriously!

In your shoes I would focus on intensive flatwork for a while. Really work on understanding and feeling what a quality canter feels like, and get him sharper to your aids.

(He’s lovely, by the way! You’ll get there, don’t feel bad.)

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He appears to be seriously behind the leg; you have nothing in front of you and he has no support. You’re using a lot of your energy, pumping with your upper body, to get him to the jumps. He should be taking you to the jumps.

I also suggest working with a trainer, lots of flat work, to move him up to the bit.

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He seems so sweet! I would agree with the above posters. You did not have enough canter to get over that first one. Recognizing that way earlier on your approach will help you create and maintain the right pace and energy to take you to the spots you need. He just died on the way there and made the right call for you - nope, mom, im crawling and not going to throw myself over this! Much of that needs to come back in the turn, or earlier, so you don’t have to press so much with your body to get him to move up. You should be able to just ride in a soft half seat right up to the jump with a good quality canter. Agree that jumping with your trainer only will help you realize when you don’t have enough.

I also school poles and cavaletti practicing counting to my distances, and often use the 3-2-1 exercise - when you think you’re 3 strides out, count down from 3 to the distance. Helps you learn very quickly if your eye is overly ambitious, conservative, or spot on. You can do this over tiny things at home - 2’ or under - and it still translates well to the bigger fences.

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The posts above mine have already covered a lot of things that I would have said. He needs to be taking you more, and needs to be connected. You clearly feel that he’s behind your leg; you can see that in how hard you’re working to try to get him to move forward, but in doing so, you’ve completely thrown away any contact that you have with him. Getting that responsiveness and that proper connection comes from flatwork, not from jumping more jumps. I agree with other posters that you shouldn’t be jumping without a trainer (personally I don’t think most people should).

With a horse like this, I’d do lots and lots of transitions - and he looks pretty dead to your leg, so I’d probably carry a dressage whip. Expect a response right away when you use your leg. If you don’t get it, flick him with the dressage whip so that you get an overreaction, and pair that with a double cluck so he associates that sound with having to go forward. You can do dozens of transitions in every gait. He needs to be prompt every time you ask. I’m currently training this into a pony and you have to be consistent for it to really stick. You also need to keep a steady contact with his mouth - that’s your line of communication, and when you throw it away like you’re doing in the video, then when you do take a feel, it’s like you’re yelling into the telephone right when he picks up.

Most horses wouldn’t have taken the distance you thought you wanted in that video where he stopped. He didn’t have enough impulsion to be able to do that. This isn’t a matter of “letting him figure it out,” it’s learning how to set both of you up for success. You can’t expect him to do the impossible and leave long with no canter. My trainer had a great way of teaching people how to let the jump happen and I’ll post it below (copied from another post), but know that there should a lot of flatwork in your future first!

A lot of people get so hung up on there being one perfect distance, and it causes a problem because they’re trying to aim for this one take-off spot at every fence. That puts a lot of pressure on you as the rider, and for some people, if they come off the turn and don’t see that one spot, they freeze, take their leg off, pull to try to make it happen, etc. Then if it doesn’t work out, there’s this negative feedback loop in your head of “oh, I didn’t get to the perfect distance, I’m not accurate, I’m not good enough,” and that can wreck your self-confidence. In actuality, there’s a range of distances that you can leave from, with the width of that range dependent on the horse’s scope. My trainer growing up had a great way of showing people this in lessons, but I can’t really do that here so please be patient with some poorly drawn stick art.

Let’s say the end of the ring is the bottom of the screen.

|===============| <- this is your jump
>>>>>>>x <-- hypothetical perfect distance (> just so your hypothetical distance is in the center)

So this is a lot of pressure on a rider to come off the turn and approach a fence aiming for this one little x. And what happens if you don’t get to that x? What if you’re a little long or a little deep? If you’re thinking about it as needing the perfect distance, that’s a lot riding on getting right to X marks the spot. But what it’s actually like is more like below:

===============

There’s really a range for your horse, and he can jump from anywhere within here and clear it.


So what’s really key to getting from one side to the other? It’s not the perfect distance, it’s getting to a place within the horse’s range with enough impulsion and enough balance that you can be a little long or a little deep and still be okay. Getting to within that range can be summed up in 4 steps:

1.) Establishing a canter that has enough impulsion that you have options at the jump. I’m not talking about going fast, but about having enough canter that if you’re a little long or a little deep, your horse can still get from one side to the other.

2.) Establishing a track to the fence. It’s important to be straight. It’s really tough to find a distance you trust when your horse’s front end and back end are on 2 different tracks.

3.) Maintaining your pace and track to the fence. Once you come off the turn, you shouldn’t need to make big adjustments in stride or straightness (which isn’t to say there’s no adjusting going on, but you shouldn’t feel like you need to gun for a big distance or choke the horse down to nothing if it’s going to be deep).

4.) Jumping the jump :slight_smile:

I’d bet money that when you’re jumping around and it’s going well, you’re not getting to the same exact distance every single time, but you’re carrying enough impulsion and balance that you’re somewhere within this range and you’re confident that it’ll work. Your confidence gives the horse confidence. You know your horse best - maybe he really doesn’t like to get deep, so your range is a little smaller, or you need to support with your leg more at that spot, or maybe he’s weird and if you’re getting deep, you need to drop the contact - you and your trainer know his idiosyncrasies and your skill level.

It’ll be okay, OP! Just put in the work on the flat before thinking about jumping bigger jumps :slight_smile:

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Lots of good advice.

I would only add that in both jumping and dressage, the almost universal problem that ammies run into is lack of impulsion. The canter that you need for good jumps and the trot that you need for decent dressage are both considerably bigger than most adult ammies will choose to ride on their own, and can feel like the horse is running away with you, especially if you have a big gaited horse that feels like you get to the end of the arena in 5 strides.

Work with a trainer who will push you to get more canter, and perhaps do grid gymnastics.

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Impulsion!
He is going way, way too slow there. He is really behind your leg in both videos. He looks like a good egg because if I came into a jump that slow on my jumper he would throw my a$$ :lol:

Lower the jump height when at home without a trainer and work on keeping him in front of your leg to the jump.
One exercise you can do at home is set two poles on the ground 60ish feet apart. Go through them at your normal speed and count his strides. Now go through again, but do one less stride. Remember to not let him run on his forehand, but to keep him up and moving from his butt. Repeat many times. That new speed is closer to what you should be doing into the jumps.

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Lots of excellent advice so far. One small thought from me. In the arena, push your horse into a brisk canter, keep it moving forward, then play around within the gait asking for longer and shorter strides, keeping balance and straightness. Not as easy as it sounds. Once you have impulsion, only then can you ask for collection.

A good exercise: put two poles on the ground about 7 strides apart. Measure this distance with care. Ride in a steady canter to make the 7 strides. Continue until it is easy, maybe four or five times. Counting aloud can be very useful.
Then ride to add in a stride, to make 8, or remove a stride, to make 6. It teaches you about adjustability and impulsion and is good gymnastics for the horse.

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To reiterate what others have said in different words…

It is all about QUALITY of the CANTER.

If you have the right impulsion, speed and balance, the horse can jump well from almost any spot.

Without impulsion and balance, the horse horse can’t jump well, no matter the “spot”.

In the video, to be blunt, the horse looks strung out (no impulsion) and on the forehand (no balance).

I would suggest you focus on improving the impulsion and balance of the canter, and then over rails on the ground.

For instance, set the rails for a nominal 6 strides (7X12 = 84 feet) and practice doing it in 6 strides, with good impulsion and balance. Then practice doing it in 7 strides (shorter strides, but NO LOSS OF IMPULSION) , and then in 5 strides (longer strides but NO FALLING ON THE FOREHAND), and so on.

I would also probably work on energetic walk to canter transitions.

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Agree with others that it is really helpful to practice with poles on the ground, single or related distances. What a nice horses you have, so cute! A good canter is absolutely essential to being able to see a distance. If you are riding at a jump with a good forward canter and don’t start freaking out 5 strides out, either pulling or chasing, it is pretty hard to totally miss. I personally cannot stand counting of any sort (1, 2, 1, 2, or 1, 2, 3, 4, etc). I think it is distracting and really, it does not teach you to see the jump in my experience. Good canter, don’t pull, don’t chase and let your eye work, either close your leg or hold your body. You’ll see it!

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Hey, well done for being open to getting help, I see lots of good suggestions so far. Your horse looks lovely.

If it’s any consolation I’m an AA who works full time and only gets to my trainer 2-3x a month. At the start of every season I can barely see a distance, feel like I can barely ride my spicy jumper and should just go trail riding instead. Yet somehow we get it together and can jump a decent course.

Here are a few more suggestions

Watch other people having lessons (in real life or online) – see the mistakes they make and how they fix them. What does good look like? What’s the difference between the canter they have and the canter you have? But don’t be too tough on yourself!

Try to incorporate 2-3 things to work on when you’re on your own – when I ride my checkpoints are “shoulders back, left leg weighted, eyes up” – just consistently doing those things is really helpful.

Don’t be afraid to play around with stuff outside of lessons – particularly on the flat/over poles. I think it’s easy to be a little safe – try to be bold! If you’re doing something wrong you can iron it out in your next lesson. One thing I like to do is almost gallop like we’re about to jump a huge water tray, then use a corner or turn to come back to a short, bouncy canter like we’re going to jump a big plank upright. I even envisage where the imaginary jump is so that I ride a track to it and make sure my eyes are up (but I don’t worry about a distance/take off spot)

And finally - take a really critical look at your trainer – I’m picking on one comment here but what does “you’re helping him too much” actually mean? Can she explain, and do you understand, exactly what she wants you to do instead? Is she getting good results with other riders who are in a similar situation to you? If she’s only producing great results with people who are in a full time program then she might not be the best fit for you. Do you feel like you improve in each lesson and can replicate at least some of that when you’re on your own? There are great trainers out there who can get good results with independent AAs – but they are hard to find.

Good luck and try to stay positive - not always easy I know

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Good evening everyone,

WOW!!! I will type a short reply now only because I wanted to say how absolutely floored I am by the responses received… what a wealth of information. I can’t believe I waited so long to post.

I have written notes (literally) of all suggestions and exercises. Seriously, some of the comments make so much sense that I feel like an idiot for not thinking of them.

Ok, write more later… very successful day at the barn. And oh gosh, my horse is lovely… take him from me before I ruin him (but I am shaking this off!!).

THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

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A sweet response from you!
If your horse has talent, you must learn to appreciate the phrase…“There are no bad distances, only bad rides”. If your horse has pace, line, balance, carriage and rhythm, he can jump successfully from where ever he gets to. So forget about finding the take off spot, and think instead about what may be lacking in your ride. If he can’t jump from where he gets to, the answer is in this phrase. If you are riding alone, examine your ride to the jump, because at least one of these 5 things is missing from your ride. A coach who is watching can tell you which, and that is helpful. Keep the jumps small when you are riding alone, and stop “looking” for a take off distance- the harder you look for it, the less likely you are to find it.

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OP, with your attitude, you will succeed. It may take a while for you to find what works for you, but keep the positive energy! I’m working on this right now, too, so I feel your pain. :winkgrin: I’ve taken a short sabbatical this summer and I’m working almost exclusively on dressage. I’m curious to see how it carries over to my jumping.

OP, you are such a lovely, soft, sympathetic rider. There is a lot to like here! As others have already said, you need to focus on making your horse work harder than you! He needs to be a bit more “yes, ma’am” when you put your leg on. You should never feel like you need to push with your seat, flap your elbows, or lean up the neck to encourage him on.

I’ve had a horse like yours - very athletic and capable of doing the job without really working hard. I’d recommend you try one of my favorite warm-ups with that horse - walk 10 steps, trot 10 steps, canter 10 strides, trot 10 steps, walk 10 steps, halt. Repeat with 9, then 8, then 7, all the way down to 3. Then start mixing it up and skipping gaits - walk, canter, halt, trot, hand gallop, halt, rein back, trot, etc. Mix up the lengths too, sometimes 10 strides, sometimes 2.

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Good evening again everyone! I can’t thank you all enough for your kind words! Yesterday the horse was awesome… I implemented a few techniques and of course he did his job. I was going to post a few other videos of rides (good ones) but then again today had a “stop” that made me mad.

Of course I can’t be too mad at this one. This is the type of dumb I mean… we were in the “cross country field” and he’s only done this one ten million times. Difference is that someone stained it dark LOL. I didn’t think he’d notice, but he sure did! He was scared of the others too, but I was able to whack him over since I was prepared.

Tomorrow is revenge! And yes, he’s a fancy hunter who I drag into the CC field and ride with horses running behind him, rain starting, and turkeys following us around. I guess tomorrow I see if he remembers!

Again, he is behind your leg. That is something you will have to learn to correct on the flat, before you keep jumping him and he keeps refusing. This will continue until you learn to get him in front of your leg.

Independence is a good quality, however, everyone needs help at times and you will not succeed in jumping until you can do this. Once you are able to get him in front of your leg you will be very happy in your progress.

Can you schedule a lesson with a trainer and ask them to teach you how to get the horse in front of your leg?

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Maybe your mindset needs to change a bit. Stop being kind, accommodating and negotiating with your horse and simply tell him what you want him to do and expect him to get the job done. Be clear, be fair, let him get on with it.

Have you ever had a work colleague or a friend tha would continually say “Oooh, I don’t know, what do you think?” as the standard response to every question you asked or idea you had. Are you perhaps setting your horse up to have just that response?

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