Do dressage riders ever use a pulley rein?

[Lord_Helpus]

My young horse has an aversion to backing up. In his last lesson, the young pro who rides him was wrestling with him, and the BNT she was lessoning with agreed that she needed to get the job done, even though my horse was raising his head way up to evade her hands. The BNT’s point was that, the horse had to learn to back up, even if it was ugly — she could smooth it out later.

I asked the BNT if he would ever use a pulley rein in such situations, and he thought it was a piece of training tack.

I realized that a pulley rein, which is an aid that a H/J rider goes to when dealing with a disobedience, might not be part of a dressage rider’s lexicon.

[For those who do not know what a pulley rein is: an aid which changes the dynamic from the horse pulling against your hand to the horse pulling against himself. The rider shortens her reins, buries her knuckles of her outside hand in the mane and pulls/releases (like a half halt, but stronger) as many times as necessary for the horse to soften and listen.]

Using a pulley rein is a quick, hidden (if done right) aid which gives the horse no opportunity to avoid the rider’s hands. And, even better, the horse does not learn to throw his head up when being corrected.

I must admit that I was aghasted that a BNT did not know what this aid was.

[Pipkin]

You don’t ask a horse to rein back by pulling on his face. Does he understand the aid from the ground? If he backs up well from a light touch to the chest and voice aid, you can begin teaching the movement under saddle by having someone on the ground doing this until he goes from rider aids alone. Going into a subtle light seat can help as some horses find it a difficult movement.

[hoopoe]

rein back training begins on the ground with both tactile and vocal aid

transfer that to mounted with a ground person

a rein back in my dressage experience is very little rein, usually just a closing and slight lifting of the hand. It comes from the seat and legs. A rein back should always be forward thinking , in the most advanced movement, a horse trots out of a rein back.

A rein back should only be developed after the horse has estabished a good forward balanced halt

[Foxtail]

I have actually used a similar aid; instead of pulling back I would lift one hand straight up with the other one grabbing the mane and hold it in that position.

That said, this was an emergency-only aid. This is what I would use in place of a one rein stop. I only ever used it on a horse who had a bolting problem. I would never use that sort of aid or any variation in day-to-day training.

I agree with the other replies; the rein back begins on the ground, one step at a time. The hands may assist, but a good rein back begins and ends with the seat and leg. If a horse who has never done a rein back under saddle can’t do a rein back under saddle, then he’s not strong enough to do a rein back under saddle.

As an aside, if you look at how operant conditioning works, if a horse is evading the hand by throwing his head in the air, then you’re best bet is to correct by one-upping him, so to speak. If you raise you hands high enough to follow him, the contact is maintained on the corners of his lips (instead of the tongue and bars, which would cause pain), and he learns that evading up is annoyingly uncomfortable.

[Lord_Helpus]

My horse is in excellent hands and he does know how to back up from the ground although perhaps not the way he needs to for dressage. But I believe my horse is in superb hands and a great program (at 5 he usually scores over 70 (except for the 51 he got when he would not go near the judge’s tent. ) and has won all but 1 of his classes at Training, and now First-1.

I am not questioning the 2 professionals who are working with him (one riding and one from the ground). I was only wondering if/why dressage people don’t have the pulley rein in their bag o’ tricks

[Highflyer]

I’m an eventer, but while I am familiar with what you’re describing, to be honest I have never really heard the terms “one-rein stop” or “pulley rein” used except on COTH. I have heard “pull his head around” or “press your knuckles into his neck.”

[Dutchmare433]

I know how to and occasionally do use a pulley rein, but only in “emergency” circumstances. Like a horse bolting or we’re going to run into something solid or we’re in the wide open and never going to stop without it. I grew up eventing though, and that’s where I learned the tool. A one rein stop is also pretty handy, and I do teach it to all of the youngsters I work with. I can’t say that I’d ever use either to get a rein back though.

[rjr]

I know what a pully rein is from my h/j days. Now that you mention it, I don’t think I have ever heard the term used in dressage circles. I would guess that most trainers who routinely break young horses would have heard of it somewhere along the way. But beyond that, the only place I would think of using it in dressage would be a true run-away emergency situation; which is fairly rare in dressage. So there are probably some trainers who haven’t heard of it. The situation you describe above is not one where I would really think of using a pully rein - Though I guess it wouldn’t be a terrible thing to do. Obviously, when a horse has his head in the air rebelling, there are going to be moments when you go outside the “classical box”.

[dotneko]

I teach my students a pulley rein as an emergency stop aid only.
I would never use it for training. Why punish the horse in the mouth?
Training should be positive not punitive. I never punish unless the behavior
is dangerous.

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

I think the conversation is different, instead of “pulley rein” you’ll hear “lift the inside hand”. It won’t be so dramatic but it is the same principle. I think the term “pulley rein” is most commonly taught to little kids as opposed to adults since children usually need simpler phrases to understand things.

[Manahmanah]

As already mentioned, the “pulley rein” is an emergency aid and used with force when a horse is more than a little out of control. It would not be used for a minor disobedience, or to aid in any training. It would only be used when the riders safety is in danger or when the horse is so out of control it needs an “emergency brake” because the normal brakes are just not working.

[SuzieQNutter]

I agree that a horse should not be backed by pulling on the reins which is what must have happened to raise the horse’s head.

I don’t know if it has changed and I don’t know the levels you talked about but when I was riding a rein back was not introduced until elementary. So your horse should be able to walk, trot and canter 10m circles. It should be doing lateral work in walk trot and canter and have started counter canter.

Most importantly it should know the forward aid unequivocally.

[Boo]

Just want to add that if he backs on the ground but not under saddle may be a pain issue. Last breaker i had was sent home after 4 days due to being sore. The inability to back under saddle was the clue. Sure enough chiro/massage found isdues. Hotse went back 2weeks later n backed on first ask

[alicen]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8680722]
Using a pulley rein is a quick, hidden (if done right) aid which gives the horse no opportunity to avoid the rider’s hands. And, even better, the horse does not learn to throw his head up when being corrected.[/QUOTE]

Traditionally, the pulley rein has been an emergency technique to stop forward motion. As such it would be counter-indicated as an aid to effect motion, albeit in reverse.

I am curious about your pointing out the possibility of its being “hidden”.

[sammy14]

One of the reasons I wouldn’t do it to force a rein back , is that it’s so severe that most horses will come very behind the vertical and drop the bit. Once they learn to do that ,you will get a terrible score. I also agree that pain is very often the culprit when a horse who understand the basic aid , refuses.
I KNOW the aid , but it’s not useful to me.

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8680722]

I must admit that I was aghasted that a BNT did not know what this aid was.[/QUOTE]

The answer to your question is merely this - dressage riders do not need to employ a “pulley rein” because they have SEATS. You can set a horse down very effectively with strong use of the seat against him. Why would you punish your horse for a failure of training anyway ?

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=hoopoe;8680735]
rein back training begins on the ground with both tactile and vocal aid

transfer that to mounted with a ground person

a rein back in my dressage experience is very little rein, usually just a closing and slight lifting of the hand. It comes from the seat and legs. A rein back should always be forward thinking , in the most advanced movement, a horse trots out of a rein back.

A rein back should only be developed after the horse has estabished a good forward balanced halt[/QUOTE]

A correctly trained, sound horse will rein-back fro a lightened seat, closed leg, and lightly closed finger.

Pulley rein has no place in rein-back lexicon. It does and should mean stop.

So the OP 's answer to her question is ,NO, except when we are being carted off.
:eek:

[riopony]

Coming from eventer land I am envisioning what you describe as a half-bridged rein and/ or a one-rein stop. I will half bridge my reins (basically holding onto both reins with one hand, say the left, and then putting the “v” of my thumb and pointer finger on one neck and still holding the right rein in my right hand), if we are galloping or bolting. It’s more of a security thing in case something goes bad and having the one rein free makes it not as severe as a full bridge. Not something that I do in dressage unless we have gone a-stray!

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=Boo;8681010]
Just want to add that if he backs on the ground but not under saddle may be a pain issue. Last breaker i had was sent home after 4 days due to being sore. The inability to back under saddle was the clue. Sure enough chiro/massage found isdues. Hotse went back 2weeks later n backed on first ask[/QUOTE]

Thank you, Boo for that suggestion. It was my first thought, too so I specifically mentioned it to his chiropractor who works on him once a month. She could not find any reason why he should be reluctant to back up. I also had my vet out to do a basic neuro exam and hock flexions; my horse passed with flying colors.

Perhaps he was born without a 'back up button".

I totally agree that, in 99% of cases, the pulley rein is used as an emergency break. But, it seemed to me that, instead of pulling on his mouth, a pulley rein could have been used more effectively and with less “argument” between rider and horse…

But, to those who say it should NEVER be used I disagree. There are no absolutes in riding, as in life.

PS: Rider has her gold medal from the USEF and trainer lives and competes at the GP level in Wellington in the winter. He spends a lot of time doing clinics, so other people must think he is a good trainer.

And my horse went to a show this morning (8 am ride times should be abolished…); he scored a 76 at Training-3 and a 72 at 1st-1. He is being brought along beautifully (and I love him to bits. )

[hoopoe]

the best correction for a resisting rein back is to trot forward and re-address a forward halt to a closing hand. In the halt you do not yield away the hand but press forward with seat and leg to a closed but alive hand.

Agree with others the pulley rein has no place in dressage except when you are being carted. You don’t fight the mouth.