Do horses deserve breakfast before being ridden?

[quietann]

So the mare was extra-cranky in my lesson this morning. The barn girl had arrived a little late, and the turnout rotations had changed, so all the mare got was 1/2 flake of hay and her (not very big) breakfast of less than a pound of ration balancer with her usual morning supps and previcox. She was waiting at the gate making her “OMG I am starving” noises and pacing and pawing when I went to get her. She is, um, extremely dramatic about anything having to do with food. (Many horses are like this, but Morgan mares are almost universally like this

She was super wiggly on the cross ties and I did give her a few hay scraps by hand. As I said, the lesson didn’t go well. She was tight and cranky and didn’t improve that much even after the trainer rode her for a few minutes. And she was turning herself inside out afterward, very anxious to be turned out, and I should have carried at least one flake with me when I put her out, instead of putting her out and then getting her hay. (Happy horse gets to spend the afternoon eating her usual morning hay AND her lunch hay. And no she doesn’t have ulcers. And free choice hay would turn most of the horses at the barn into blimps, so they do go for some number of hours without hay overnight. Hay rations are extremely generous compared to most barns around here anyway.)

My usual thing, with morning lessons, has been to be sure she has time to eat even if it means getting to the barn early. Up until today I have not needed to go early on Saturdays because she was getting time to eat at least half her morning hay before I got her. It just seems fair to me; I can’t do my best if I am hungry so why should I expect her to? BTW this doesn’t necessarily extend to grain; I do understand why some people wait, but getting some hay into them sounds like the right thing … but some people seem to think it’s “indulgent” or unnecessary.

Thoughts?

[rizzodm]

Whenever my trainer has requested earlier than usual lessons for me I always asked if horsie could be fed earlier so he had a chance to eat atleast a little bit before our lesson.
My friends Morgan gelding gets very upset to be taken away if dinner is being fed unless he is able to get a couple bites of hay then he is ok.

[pezk]

In my world, yes, she deserves to eat. But there are lots of people who don’t feel that way. Unless they are out on pasture, they have gone all nite with nothing in their stomach. Nature designed them to graze most hours. They produce stomach acid constantly. Ulcers seem to be very prevalent in today’s world but horses are not being treated like horses. Nature didn’t design them to be fed only a handful(if that) times per day. And then you are asking her to pay attention to your aids, be obedient, and be a good girl, all on an empty stomach.
To me it’s amazing many horses are so good natured. How do you feel if you haven’t had your cup of coffee in the morning and have to go to work early? People get crabby too but they have a choice. Horses don’t.

[SuzieQNutter]

It is a both a psychological and a physical thing for horses.

My horses are turned out 24/7 with lots of hay so yes they get worked before they are fed.

If they are in a stable without free choice hay, they should get at least a half a biscuit (flake) of hay to buffer against the acid in their stomach to prevent ulcers. Lucerne (alfalfa) is the best buffer.

Horses get very used to a routine. Your girl is upset because her routine changed. It takes about 3 days to change a routine. Sometimes longer!

No grain before being ridden. When exertion begins. Digestion stops.

[Simkie]

I’d want at least some alfalfa pellets or hay cubes in her belly before riding–even without ulcers, all that acid sloshing around in there isn’t awesome.

If it happens again, can you tack her up slowly in a stall with a hay bag? With 15-20 minutes to eat some hay, I bet she’d be a lot happier!

[AKB]

I would give her a little grain as well as at least a flake of hay before she works. A handful of grain will make her feel like she has been fed. It is easy enough to get to the barn early enough for her to eat and have some time to digest, before she works.

[cayuse]

Feed first, ride later. I always let them have breakfast (I understand waiting on grain, but I prefer to be the one who waits while they “digest”). It makes for a much happier day all around.

[BeaSting]

It depends. During the summer I ride earlier in the morning. Most days the help brings the horses in for grain, then turns them out again before doing stalls. When I arrive, my mare is either eating or has finished eating and is turned out. On days when the heat index is high and the horses will be staying in, they get fed later, staying out while the morning is still cooler. Stalls are done, and then the horses brought in. On those days, I ride before maresie gets breakfast.

Whether or not she’s had breakfast yet or not doesn’t factor into the riding routine, except for after the ride is over. If she’s already eaten, she’s happy to stand while I fuss around over her. If she hasn’t eaten she expects to be taken to her stall as soon as the saddle comes off.

[newhorsemommy]

Well, for ages (months anyways) I thought that my mare’s increasingly poor behavior during lessons was due to being taken out at dinnertime (the only time the trainer and I can meet).

If we just let her eat for a few minutes she would be much better. It finally occurred to me that she might have ulcers, even though she is fat and shiny and definitely doesn’t look like a horse with ulcers.

I did 7 days of GG and really couldn’t tell enough of a difference to continue at that cost but did start feeding her a small amount of soaked alfalfa before rides. This seemed to work for a couple of weeks or so and then she got even worse. I had a vet out and he agreed that a lot of very subtle issues pointed to ulcers and I started her on a compounded omeprazole. We are on Day 11 and I am started to think (although I don’t want to get too optimistic) that this might in fact be her problem. She was much better this week during lessons and her eating has actually slowed down the last two days.

I’m worried we may have actually caused the ulcers (or significantly worsened) by working her at dinnertime and on an empty stomach. Between the stress over seeing the other horses eat and the long stretch since breakfast (I board), this seems possible.

So in short, yes, I think your horse deserves breakfast before riding I will always feed her a little alfalfa before riding now unless she has just been fed.

[M_O_Connor]

It’s not a question of ‘deserving’ or not. What horse doesn’t ‘deserve’ to eat?

But horses are designed to be continuous eaters…mess with that, and problems result. Going to ride early? Make sure the hay will last the night, or get up early and feed well ahead of your ride time.

[arapaloosa_lady]

I’d just groom & tack up in the stall while she’s eating her hay. And make sure to take a nice, long warm-up before starting strenuous activity.

Any way you can get her overnight hay in a hay net so it lasts her for more hours?

[goodhors]

We like to feed before they work if we plan to use them early in the AM. This would be if horses have nothing outside to eat, Fall, Early Spring. If they are coming in from night turnout, they HAVE been eating, so they can be put to work without any extra feeding. Everyone gets a handful of oats in stall, for coming inside, gives them a reward. Horses don’t count quantity, they get “something” for coming in.

We get up early to feed hay before morning competitions, give them time to eat and digest before work time.

Ours are not on a fixed schedule, so they don’t worry about me being out at exactly 8A or 9A or even 6A when I have to go someplace. They come inside when I am ready, go out when we are done with them. Could be 5P or 8-9P. There is a mid day serving of grain and wet beet pulp daily, depending on when I am home to give it. They like this, but don’t get silly if it comes at 3P or 6P, with work after.

Everyone here is easy about feeding, full day or night turnout depending on if summer or winter. Come for their barn time if cold or when called in nice weather. No clock watchers here. No ulcers, no misbehaving when put to work.

Morgans do like a schedule! They can get rather fixated on things done on time if you tend to be pretty consistant with scheduling.

[Pancakes]

I don’t know about “deserve,” but my horse is noticeably different when he is not fed a full meal in the morning before I ride. He is cranky, less eager to work, more eager to “get it over with” and more distracted/spooky. This is even if he has had hay or hay cubes. His dinner and breakfast are very important and while I don’t want him to be a spoiled brat, I know when he’s just not going to listen to me under saddle if he’s constantly thinking about food. I found a “lunch” of hay cubes and beet pulp lets me ride later in the afternoon without him getting bent out of shape about his dinner being later than usual.

[yellowbritches]

I ride in the mornings before work. They usually come in/get fed about 8, but I try to get there by 6:30. My horse is a very slow, methodical eater. I don’t have time to wait for him. This time of year, he’s out on grass all night, so he goes straight to the cross ties. In the winter, I go directly to his stall and toss him a flake of hay before pulling our stuff out, putting boots on, etc. Sometimes I groom while he munches hay. This combats the whole acid sloshing in an empty stomach thing (though, he usually has a bit of hay left when I get there). He could care less if he gets his feed first.

If if he got a tiny bit of feed. I might give him breakfast while I groom, but he gets an inconvenient amount and takes way too long. It works. No skin off his nose.

[DancingArabian]

My horse is never without hay or pasture, so he’s never sitting on an empty stomach.

I think you should make sure that your horse has some time to eat some hay and give her a handful of her grain (if she gets any) and save the rest for after the ride. She’s probably used to a particular routine and some horses do get upset when it’s supposed to be eating time and they’re not eating.

[Flash44]

Sounds like excuses are being made for a horse that listens when it feels like listening, and is doing a pretty good job of training the humans to structure her world just the way she wants it. I’d embark on a logical program of groundwork to gain her respect and teach her to be patient and listen. Does not sound like she even knows how to tie up.

[BuddyRoo]

Flash, I very rarely disagree with you, but on this point, I do to some extent.

Critters, even us humans, get in routines. And we like them. We tend to be of better mind and attitude with consistent routines. I want my morning coffee before my DH starts in about the plans for the day. I want to shower, shave, then put on moisturizer, then wait 10 min, THEN put my contacts in. Can I do it in a different order? Sure. But I like my routine.

Should a horse be able to be worked even if they’re pulled out during breakfast or dinner? Sure. But if you’re looking to get your money’s worth out of a lesson or the best out of a training ride and know that you have a food hound of a horse, it seems to me that it’s best to go ahead and make sure that they get their breakfast/dinner whatever per their normal schedule.

Are we making them princes and princesses? Perhaps. Because we all know that forgoing a meal for an extra hour isn’t going to kill them. BUT…in a board situation where things are highly routine, it makes sense to me to plan around that to ensure a good experience for horse and rider.

I don’t feel like it’s coddling nor lack of respect. It’s just what they’re used to. And I’m a pick your battles to win your wars kind of gal.

Yesterday, in prep for a show we were hosting at our barn, the BM hadn’t yet fed the outside horses and it was already 10:30AM. All the horses were standing by the gate waiting in anticipation. Including mine that I intended to ride. I just gave her the meal while she stood in cross ties and I groomed. Is she spoiled? Meh, I don’t think so. She would’ve been fine regardless. But the truth is, she hadn’t had breakfast yet and dangit if I won’t do much without my coffee.

I don’t appreciate nor accept crappy behavior. I’m not saying give a pass. But when it’s dinner time, it’s dinner time and the horses know it.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8264145]
It is a both a psychological and a physical thing for horses.

My horses are turned out 24/7 with lots of hay so yes they get worked before they are fed.

If they are in a stable without free choice hay, they should get at least a half a biscuit (flake) of hay to buffer against the acid in their stomach to prevent ulcers. Lucerne (alfalfa) is the best buffer.

Horses get very used to a routine. Your girl is upset because her routine changed. It takes about 3 days to change a routine. Sometimes longer!

No grain before being ridden. When exertion begins. Digestion stops.[/QUOTE]

Concur that it’s more the breaking of a pattern than sheer hunger.

The mare I rode for 15 years live out most of that time. I learned early on with her that I needed to give her about 8 oz. of feed before I groomed her and got her tacked up. If I did that she was fine; if I didn’t all she worried about was that she didn’t get anything to eat. I’ve had trainers tell me I was going to founder her doing that; she never founded at all during her life and she’s still works (as my wife’s primary horse) at 22 years of age.

With horse if you break a pattern you can have a less than satisfactory training/riding session. With that in mind we often break patterns in small ways and that seems to prevent deeply ingrained patterns (the kind that lead to bucking, rearing, bolting, etc.) from developing. Of course every horse is different and some never develop highly resistant behaviors no matter how much a pattern changes. Others become “fire breathing dragons” if the smallest thing changes.

Like with anything else, you’ve got to ride the horse under you, not the one you wish was under you. The Object of the Exercise is the make that horse the one you really want to have. How simple is that?!?!?!

G.

[Bluey]

I found odd the word “deserve”.

Anyway, when we had to ride early, plenty of times when “neighboring” in season, we may have to leave early.
We had kept the horses for the next day in the pens and someone would go feed one hour earlier, if we were leaving at 4am, feed at 3am.

The horses always were expected to be taken care of properly and that was being fed and having time to eat and go to the bathroom, drink, etc.

I know that this time the OP’s mare was not fed because someone was late, that happens if no one is there to take over.
Maybe they will see that doesn’t happen again?

[heronponie]

If the horses are consistently going for a period of several hours overnight with nothing to eat, they very likely are experiencing some digestive upset, if not full blown ulcers.

Working a horse on an empty stomach is a perfect recipe for sloshing around that stomach acid and aggravating ulcers, or at least burning the sensitive lining of the stomach. A buffer of hay would help prevent that effect, grain not so much.

That’s just how equine digestive systems work. Has nothing to do with a horse’s “manners” or “respect” or “deserving”, and everything to do with basic, commonsense horse husbandry.