Do I just go Western?

[paulaedwina]

Thanks for the input guys. To be clear I wasn’t going to switch out the bit for a shank. My trainer riders her stallion in a snaffle. What I didn’t understand (because I am new to Western) is that the snaffle is for two hands not one! I just sorted that out in my research today so I have answered my own question. Two hands it is!

I also have to be reminded to be flexible in my thinking. It is a challenge I have that I am very much either/or to a fault. I can still ride my horse the way I’ve been riding, but pursue that longer rein and more ask and release instead of constant “contact”.

MVP I’m not switching out my tack but I am changing tack :lol: . I also have to be more assertive. My trainer has pointed out some behaviors Fella has that are a result of me not insisting on certain behaviors (like standing for me to mount). I have a bit of a passive/aggressive attitude where I won’t fight you but I’ll do what I want anyway. Apparently it doesn’t work on horses because they miss the subtlety :lol: so Fella reads the passive in my futzing when mounting and misses the rest of it. I have to be more insistent.

Fillabeana, the second rider is even more unyielding on the mouth I think (the black and white paint) and should not be in a shank either (it looks like a shank, but it’s hard to tell).

Paula

[IdahoRider]

@paulaedwina;7034834

Fillabeana, the second rider is even more unyielding on the mouth I think (the black and white paint) and should not be in a shank either (it looks like a shank, but it’s hard to tell).

The chestnut and white horse is not in a shanked bit. It looks like a D ring snaffle to me. Or maybe a loose ring snaffle. But no shanks.

I sure do enjoy watching the videos you all come up with. It shows that riding is riding, regardless of your tack. A crappy ride isn’t made better by a western saddle, or a dressage saddle. And a good rider shines, regardless.
Sheilah

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7034479]
I see what you’re saying. I don’t actually have to “pick” anything. As Dr Deb says in your article -there’s value to experimenting and the goal for me (when I see real rewards) has been to get out of my horse’s way. So I noticed, along these lines, that he’s much freer with Western contact -longer reins, ask and release. He seems really able to stretch. Dropping my stirrups a hole (because I feel like Western riders ride with a longer leg?) seems to have helped my balance alot too. I didn’t lose my stirrups and am not (at least it doesn’t feel) like I’m rooting for my stirrups when I post.

Oh epiphany! I have been having issues with posting, with forward, etc. because Fella wasn’t relaxed and using his core and I was blocking him with my contact which apparently was too much for him. DUH. No wonder it all seems to be coming together. When I first got him he curled terribly I rode him on very loose reins with the plan that we should take up contact later. Now I ask myself why? Why is it important for him to ride with English contact? Answer: It isn’t at all important. He seems to do better with Western contact so Western it is.

Now whether we’ll go to indirect reining is another story and that has alot to do with me. I bet you some/all those issues will resolve themselves now. Hmm…

LOL as for the people who find my process tiresome -they exist out here in the real world too. But it’s my process. And I’m not the only one who’s like this!

Paula[/QUOTE]

You are awesome. :encouragement:

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;7034493]
It is the responsibility of the rider to select a horse suitable for their pursuit.[/QUOTE]

In the breed shows, it’s quite common for an equestrian to compete in multiple disciplines. Good horsemanship transcends discipline.

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7034512]
BWAHAHAHAHAHA My dear, man plans, God laughs. BTW I thought you were fed up with my process. Not sure why you’re still reading this tiresome thread. Notice I even put it in the Western forum so as not to darken the threshold of your precious Dressage forum.

Please tell me, what else can I do to make your life easier?

Paula[/QUOTE]

:winkgrin::lol: bows respectfully

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;7034703]
There is no god. Fortunately you are not privvy to my thoughts, nor my pursuits, (as witnessed by your ignorance) and my life needs no help from you. Thanks anyway.[/QUOTE]

Um… “God laughs” is part of an idiomatic phrase, not necessarily a reference or a statement of belief in a specific deity.

May I ask your intent and goal in continuing to post to this thread, despite your evident distaste for the topic?

I’m sure that it is not at all your intention to come across as supercilious and contrarian. Perhaps you are a non-native speaker of english? Perhaps your blood sugar is low or you are overtired?

Nuance is often difficult to communicate in one’s non-native language. Tone is often difficult to correctly convey in an online forum.

Best Regards,
Amber

[californianinkansas]

“Charles Manson Really Behaved Poorly Friday Afternoon King Victor Even Said Ho boxes.”

Where has this mnenomic [sp?] been all my life? happy clap

[paulaedwina]

Ha, it’s because I made it up. I needed something to help me remember those letters. Went out today warmed up in the ring and then went out on a mini-hack. I thought the straightaway at the bottom of the trail would help me with balance and forward since it also gently slopes.

Went through once, nice trot up slope. Definitely the loose rein is helping. The longer leg is a bit of a challenge. My calves cramped so this says to me my heel is creeping up. A fellow barnmate who is Western said I should leave them long for now and my leg will improve.

I’ll do this again a few times during the week and next weekend. I should also be able to improve my canter transition on this straightaway on the up slope since it is so conducive to both engaging the hind end and forward.

Paula

[paulaedwina]

Ha, it’s because I made it up. I needed something to help me remember those letters. Went out today warmed up in the ring and then went out on a mini-hack. I thought the straightaway at the bottom of the trail would help me with balance and forward since it also gently slopes.

Went through once, nice trot up slope. Definitely the loose rein is helping. Dr Deb may be on to something :lol: with Fella a tighter rein caused curling, curling will not lift the back, resulting tension makes everything sucky and pokey. The longer leg is a bit of a challenge. My calves cramped so this says to me my heel is creeping up. A fellow barnmate who is Western said I should leave them long for now and my leg will improve.

I’ll do this again a few times during the week and next weekend. I should also be able to improve my canter transition on this straightaway on the up slope since it is so conducive to both engaging the hind end and forward.

Paula

[LadyGalahad]

I know where you’re coming from! I have a very flashy paint gelding that would probably do well in halter showmanship classes or HUS type with the right training… My showing is done! I can’t afford it! Plus I ride western and know nothing about HUS types. I’m trying to find an advanced 4-H kid to work with him and maybe show him. I live over an hour away so I can only ride about once a week and just trails for me these days!

[mvp]

[QUOTE=lovey1121;7030904]

Jam your helmet down, hike up your britches, set your chin, and resolve to work every day towards the immediate goals of the dressage scale and on to Training level. [/QUOTE]

Just here to stir some $hit in a constructive way. I might start a separate thread.

Will all due respect for the German uber alles in Dressage Theory, the western bridle-horse makers seem to a very, very different approach to the game end result. The training scale isn’t their bag, even though they want a horse that’s light, balanced and engaged. So far as I can tell, they want the horse to get:

1. The right relationship to the (snaffle) bit, and then to any other face equipment. That means the horse is light all the time up there and that you can move just about any foot in any direction with your hand (IMO, some leg is needed, too).

2. I think the same goes for the leg, seat and body. But the training goal on any given day is to get the horse to give you the light, responsive answer to your aids. As a rider, you end up having to know how the horse is using his body in order to be able to appropriately ask and reward the horse.

3. If you ride well and want to put this horse in that ultra-responsive mode all the time, the only way he can get there is to use is body correctly. To me, that means he’ll sit on his hind end, bend, go forward and come back PDQ.

So, yes, making a bridle horse involves a lot of emphasis on the hand. But in reality, it’s about making a horse light to your body/seat/weigh and doing the physical conditioning it takes for a horse to be able to give you want you want.

In short, one can bail on the German training scale and still make a horse that does the job.

[paulaedwina]

Well I ride in jeans now :lol: How come nobody ever told me how comfortable these are?

Paula

[VaqueroToro]

[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7089411]
Well I ride in jeans now :lol: How come nobody ever told me how comfortable these are?

Paula[/QUOTE]

They’re not when it’s 90+ degrees out and 95% humidity! All the denim traps the sweat and catches the skin in all the wrong spots (or at least on me they do). I pull out the English wear when it gets that bad and make quite a sight in my jods and paddocks in a Western saddle. :lol:

[49_er]

mvp, I like your comments. I think you are bringing up the major difference between the concepts of Cowboy Dressage and Western Dressage. I think Western Dressage is going to win the race, but I like the concepts of Cowboy Dressage much better (tho not the patterns they use).

[paulaedwina]

I dunno if I agree with that -we just had some hot as you know what days here and I was definitely more comfortable in my jeans than I would have been in my breeches and tall boots (having had that experience in previous hot-as-youknowwhat summer days). My jeans are different though -I haven’t worn pants in a while so I was pleasantly surprised that;

1. I got jeans that fit off the rack instead of feeling like I could be pregnant with quads up front in order to fit my butt in back.

2. I got jeans off the right that had a decent rise (not up under my boobs and not down under my hips.

3. I got jeans off the rack that were long enough. I used to only be able to by pants by inseam if I bought men’s cargo pants. I guess women’s pants makers caught on!

4. And they don’t grab me in weird places!

Wow women’s pants have come a long way haven’t they :eek:? Oh and they’re quite lightweight and stretchy so maybe that’s why they were so comfortable this past week of hot hell? One thing -they’re almost too sticky on my BF bareback pad.

Paula

[Wellspotted]

Try going western and see how it feels to you and Fella.

I have learned in recent years that even though I “think” or “feel” I might want to try something, when I actually try it, after awhile (sometimes a short while, sometimes a longer while) I’ve realized I don’t actually enjoy it. Other times, I may “think” or “feel” I wouldn’t care for something, and have been very pleasantly surprised to find that I do. And of course sometimes I think I would like to do something, and I try it, and I do like it. (And sometimes I just stay clueless ;).)

Your post doesn’t sound to me like you’re only doing it to be about showing, but just to do it.

I say go for it. See how it works for you and for Fella. An opportunity may come along to try competing at it. See how that feels.

I’m kinda learning that that may be what it means to “live day to day” or “take one day at a time.”

I actually found myself giving this sort of advice to a friend who’s been worrying about looking for a new boarding barn.

I switched to western dressage years ago. LOVED it. But that was after I’d watched a couple of “western vs. dressage” videos online (back before western dressage really took off), and realized I liked the western horse and rider a lot more than the other pair in each vid.

I say, Go for it.

And keep us posted!

[mvp]

[QUOTE=49’er;7089522]
mvp, I like your comments. I think you are bringing up the major difference between the concepts of Cowboy Dressage and Western Dressage. I think Western Dressage is going to win the race, but I like the concepts of Cowboy Dressage much better (tho not the patterns they use).[/QUOTE]

What? I’m ignorant of that little side-fight between the WD and CD folks. The only thing I have heard (from a west coast pro) is that CD is the proprietary ego-extension of Eitan Beth-Halachmy and contemptible for that reason.

Do you mean that the “not underwritten by German theory” approach I described is WD or CD? FWIW, I got the sense of that “here is another way to get there” from watching Buck Brannaman give a clinic for 4 days. I’m not sure how to mix in all of the backing up that guy does with what I have learned about Dressage’s “always forward,” but if you listen carefully, you’ll hear someone like him wanting the same performance and biomechanics from the horse’s body.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7034834]

… I also have to be more assertive. My trainer has pointed out some behaviors Fella has that are a I have a bit of a passive/aggressive attitude where I won’t fight you but I’ll do what I want anyway. Apparently it doesn’t work on horses because they miss the subtlety :lol: so Fella reads the passive in my futzing when mounting and misses the rest of it. I have to be more insistent.

Paula[/QUOTE]

Pick one approach and study and ‘live’ the crap out of it. DO IT. Do as your trainer tells you, ingest it, invest in it- DO IT.

Just pick something and DO IT.

Or passive aggressively just do whatever you want regardless of the feedback from others. that’s one way to live.

[paulaedwina]

Katarine,

1. I don’t understand why if I piss you off so much you take the time to post to my thread.

2. I haven’t updated this thread -I have no progress report to make save that I’ve tried riding in jeans so are you reacting so strongly to the same thing you reacted so strongly too weeks (that quote is from June 15) ago when I first posted?

I am confused. Am I just not understanding your way of speaking and it just feels like criticism when you do not intend it to be?

Paula

[katarine]

Don’t be passive aggressive with people, too- you aren’t confused. You’re mad or frustrated or aggravated. i am confident you are not confused.

I am not pissed off at you or anyone. I read this thread again as I saw it had some activity. I saw your post about being P/A. That struck a cord with me b/c I realized for the first time that you are P/A. Previously I’d just thought you enjoyed all the attention, good or bad. Now I get it- you have made up your mind to do it YOUR way. Got it.

So- I am saying again- but now for a different reason, b/c I now think what you are calling passive aggressive with horses, is actually just being unclear, wishy washy, and looking for some sort of mystical la la land with that gelding without demanding he do it YOUR WAY, you just bull through and do whatever the heck you want. . Stop it. Stop being wishy washy. Pick a discipline and be disciplined. You’ve spent a lot of money on equipment and lessons to just be blowing off whatever you don’t like to hear, and doing whatever you want anyway. You are wasting your time, their time, your horse’s time, insisting on doing it your own baseless and convoluted way.

Pick someone you trust and do it THEIR way.

Toodles.