[QUOTE=marta;3580558]
i apparently missed this discussion last time around…:eek:[/QUOTE]
Me too! It sounds like ZG is VERY LIKELY to cause mouth burns!?? Not good. I ordered the Country Supply year’s worth of wormer pak, and now I can’t remember if it’s Equimax or ZG they sent me, but there’s no way I’m giving the ZG. I’ll be chucking it out before I’ll take that kind of risk.
ZG
FYI… the way they handle the claims these days is to send you a full release before they will pay the vet bill. The release is very comprehensive and includes prohibiting the claimant from talking about the product and what it did to the claimant’s horse. Basically, they gag the claimant from warning other people about the effect of their product on the claimant’s horse.
From one who knows…the hard way
Huh. Thats sure easier than actually fixing the product! HEY COMPANY, ITS PROBABLY THE STUPID ORANGE COLORING YOUR MARKETING DEPT. ADDED TO MAKE IT PRETTY!
Did I say that loud enough in case they actually check to see if anyone blabs?
I did not sign any sort of release and they paid my Vet in company products–most of which she does not use. However, since they make GG she was willing to trade.
I will admit I do jump all over these threads becuase I am still waiting for the problem to be fixed instead of hushed up, but I have always been sort of suprised nobody has threatened to sue me.
I actually think they employ no person who googles.
I do not think they are very forthcoming about the possibility of small intestine burns after the mouth gets burned. They argued that one right up until the moment by Vet said she had a 3 meter scope. Then they gave us GG too.
COTH can’t allow this on a sticky, but we certainly can bump it up once a week and let people make an informed choice.
I try to not be cynical and paranoid, but the Zimectrin Gold situation seems clearly wrong with so many reported burns. Perhaps their attorneys have advised them that there are really no substantial damages, after all, they must say, it’s just a transitory injury to a horse.
Hey, equinelaw, how about prosecution under animal cruelty laws? Maybe we should alert the ASPCA or Humane Society or PETA. Merial certainly has notice and hence intent.
This situation is exactly the sort of thing that really gets me pissed off professionally.
Having been in situations where I have been pushed by physicians and managment to administer a treatment with a high potential to cause harm to a patient…putting my behind on the line if something goes wrong. (but Im not going down that road right now… lets just say I get extremely angry about anyone poo-pooing concerns about administering something that is known to cause a negative outcome AND being unwilling to look for a solution.
So this has captured my interest! We need people who have had this happen and have not contacted the drug company for reimbursement…we need vets/techs educated to look for this reaction and report it to the FDA, and to educate their clients to review the side effects of that wormer.
Ill have to look into it…I am not bound by any gag clause since it has not happened to me…
I donno about that, but if a SC client had damages of $1 the laws in my state are brutal for products liability. For a small southern state we sure don’t like our consumers having any problems.
And yes, in a cost benefit analysis its much cheaper for them to pay for those that know to ask then pull the product. Its a fraction of a tiny drop in the bucket to them.
As I said, I do think they are trying to find out what teh problem is, but clearly they need help form someone who works at a pool store or has a $3 ph meter.
They could test the paste all day and not get a bad result unless they diluted it down with lots of water. Its a fluke I even tried that. My friend the chemist was on the phone talking me through a test and he said now pour 1/20th of that solution in more water. BAHM! The ph shot up like a rocket and he had been expecting the exact opposite.
I can see their scientists not figuring that out. I can see their scientists not testing the manure for ph and not just happening to know the average baseline for that horse.
I can understand all kinds of reasons an ex-equine researcher who worked with poop and ph might hit upon things a lab scientist wouldn’t think of, but I can’t understand why they do not seem to just pull the product until they figure it out. They make GG, its not like they will go broke.
Could they just hire a teenager to goole it?
[QUOTE=Lexation;3580979]
This situation is exactly the sort of thing that really gets me pissed off professionally.
Having been in situations where I have been pushed by physicians and managment to administer a treatment with a high potential to cause harm to a patient…putting my behind on the line if something goes wrong. (but Im not going down that road right now… lets just say I get extremely angry about anyone poo-pooing concerns about administering something that is known to cause a negative outcome AND being unwilling to look for a solution.
So this has captured my interest! We need people who have had this happen and have not contacted the drug company for reimbursement…we need vets/techs educated to look for this reaction and report it to the FDA, and to educate their clients to review the side effects of that wormer.
Ill have to look into it…I am not bound by any gag clause since it has not happened to me…[/QUOTE]
I have pictures of the horse and many pictures of the ph test results at differing solutions and lab notes if that helps get someone who is better suited to figure this out get interested.
The pictures do seem to make it seem more dramatic. In more then 1 year I have failed to find anyone who cares and is in a position to run some simple tests and be taken seriously by the companies testing scientists. MY MS in Equine Science does not trump their Phds in a harder sciences and my JD screws it all up. They do not talk to JDs.
I just want them to fix the problem. I do not even care if they are punished. I just do not want more horses to suffer when the owners were just trying to do the right thing.
[QUOTE=equinelaw;3580995]
I have pictures of the horse and many pictures of the ph test results at differing solutions and lab notes if that helps get someone who is better suited to figure this out get interested.[/QUOTE]
I may be in contact with you…need to look up some info first.
Thanks for this information…I believe my horses here at home are due for the either Equimax or ZG and I will not be using the ZG. I know this does not fix the problem but at least know that a couple more horses will not be subjected to this product. Also, fwiw I have 2 other horses that are boarded at an equine clinic and you better believe I will be having a discussion with the vets and barn manager about this product.
I think that really helps. If you google it you find Vets thinking it was a bee sting or some other event becuase nobody told them to ask about ZG.
Next week sometime I finally join the 21st century and get DSL! Maybe then I can post the pics and peopel can see for themselves.
having dabbled with product liability lawsuits (inflatable restraints and seat belts) from a design & manufacturing standpoint, I agree that it’s far cheaper and easier for the manufacturer to pay $10s of thousands in settlements then it would be for them to make a new recipe and go back through all the testing requirements to release a “new/revised” product. Plus… all the doubt it would cast on their products in general.
And therein may lie your answer. If they make GG and they use GG to treat the damage ZG causes, then perhaps they are thinking that they will make money either way. If the horse has intestinal burning without being able to trace it to the ZG, then they would think it was ulcers as another poster had said her vet did. End result, they sell more GG.
Sorry, but I’ve worked with enough pharmaceutical companies to know it is all about profit, always.
Interesting…I wonder how many horses that have been wormed with ZG end up with ulcers? I wonder if horse owners are making a connection there.
I want to thank those who brought the issue to my attention. Having read the product description in my catalogs, I had already purchased a half dozen tubes.
I tossed it all.
The ones who were not afraid to speak out may have saved my kids from harm.
My horse did not get gastric ulcers. He got them farther back–in his small intestine.
Its easy to think worse things about a company that is not beng 100% honest with us, but I do not think they have a plan. I just think they need a clue.
I also think in this very week and day and age, not next month or last year, that a company being honest might garner more loyalty from customers then one might think. They are already paying the damages, so in a time we can trust nobody wouldn’t you just love an honest company that admitted its mistakes and fixed them?
I haven’t had any problems with Z. Gold and I prefer it over Quest Plus which is easier to OD on.
[QUOTE=equinelaw;3580932]
Huh. Thats sure easier than actually fixing the product! HEY COMPANY, ITS PROBABLY THE STUPID ORANGE COLORING YOUR MARKETING DEPT. ADDED TO MAKE IT PRETTY![/QUOTE]
That same orange coloring is added to Gastogard and Ulcergard. I sincerely doubt that’s causing the problem. :rolleyes:
And how were the small intestine ulcers diagnosed, BTW?
FWIW, I’ve used the Gold a few times, along with many other horses where I’ve boarded over the years, and have yet to see or hear of a problem. Not to say they never happen but it’s certainly not common. One would think if this were indeed a chemical burn, it would occur in most, if not all horses?
Frankly, I prefer Equimax because it contains the full dose of ivermectin along with more praziquantel.
folks who experience problems
should report this to their state division of consumer affairs. perhaps if a state attorney general initiated a formal action the mfr would take care of the problem.
honestly, i’m not that naive (didn’t think so anyway) but i’m surprised by the failure to correct and the releases containing confidentiality provisions which bar folks from telling what happened to their animals. :no:
This is what happened in my case.
I called the vet and was told that it could not be the de-wormer and it must have been a bee or such and to give him an antihistamine.
If you saw his mouth though, you would know it was not a bee sting, but I did what my vet said. Stupid me.
Actually, the amount of ivermectin per pound of Equimax is just about the same as that of ZG. It’s the prazi that, on a pound basis, that is about 50% higher. Simkie did the great calculations on the onchocerca thread:
Zimectrin Gold: 1.55% ivermectin, 7.75% praz, 7.35 g total weight, treats 1250lbs
0.0155 x 7.35 g=0.113925 g/1250lbs=0.00009114 g/lb=91.14 microgram/lb
0.0775 x 7.35 g=0.569625 g/1250lbs=0.0004557 g/lb=455.7 microgram/lb
Equimax: 1.87% Ivermectin, 14.03% praz, 6.42 g total weight, treats 1320 lbs
0.0187 x 6.42 g=0.120054 g/1320 lbs=0.00009095 g/lb=90.95 microgram/lb
0.1403 x 6.42 g=0.900726 g/1320 lbs=0.00068237 g/lb=682.4 microgram/lb
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