do you Ace?

[MySparrow]

This is my first time over here on hunters – usually I’m on Driving, Dressage or Off Course (ain’t we all?). But I had to pop in and ask a question. This evening I was told something that I just had to run past y’all. The young man said that he knows foxhunt staff who will give low doses of Ace when introducing horses to first flight or whipping off them for the first time.

Not something I had heard of. Certainly not something that was done back when I hunted – I’m old as dirt and we didn’t have Ace back then, for one thing. But for another thing, it just didn’t sound to me like something the staff of a good hunt would do.

Anyone ever hear of such a thing? Am I just waaaaay behind the times? Is it considered a good thing? An acceptable thing? Something one does but is not proud of?

Thanks!

[SLW]

It is done for reasons you’ve been told although in my experience the hunt field is probably the place it’s used the least, re: talk to show people.

The use will vary from person to person whether it’s a horse new to hunting that the rider expects to be too “electric” first time or two out or a nice amatuer person who hunts once a week for two hours on a horse that is suitable in all areas but gets stronger as the hunt progresses.

I personally would not hunt a horse that required ace. My my dinky world there are horses that are suitable for hunting and horses that are not. You can spot the aced horses on hour three of hunt, they are the ones that were behind you and are now passing you.

[flyingchange]

Yes, it is VERY common.

[Bogie]

Okay, flame suit on.

I don’t see a huge problem with giving a low dose of ACE to a horse the first few times out. It may help keep the horse calm at the start of the hunt, when a horse new to hunting might get worked up. A low dose of ACE won’t last all that long, either so it’s not like it’s going to make a huge difference during the course of the hunt. Heck, if you give them ACE before you trailer, you’re really only talking about it having an effect for 20 minutes or so. I know people who do give a bit of ACE and their horses do not get stronger during the hunt; the ACE gives them a chance to settle.

That said, I think that it’s not an excuse for properly preparing a horse for a hunt and introducing it slowly. I never thought of given my current hunt horse ACE, but I did start him out hilltopping and was prepared to retire from the field if he’d had any “issues” with being out in the field. When I start my new horse I’m going to take him only to local hunts where I know the territory because he is a pistol to ride and he might well get overly enthusiastic.

[veebug22]

[QUOTE=Bogie;2947340]
Okay, flame suit on.

I don’t see a huge problem with giving a low dose of ACE to a horse the first few times out.[/QUOTE]

No worries Bogie, I tend to agree with you. Especially if it’s a low dose, given at the start, and you’re not doing much jumping/hilltoppers, I think it’s a good option to have with certain horses when starting them out.

[system]

It is important that the HORSE, as well as the RIDER have a good experience while foxhunting. While some horses do not need any ACE, we must remember our safety and the company of others.
For instance we have a mare who is a GREAT foxhunter, but when she hears those hounds screaming it makes her sooo excited that she will give a couple of bucs. Not that I can’t handle it, but for the safety of other riders and juniors out I want to be cautious. And also depends on the terrain you will be hunting on.
I am not sure if staff members ACE their horses, but keep in mind whips aren’t around many horses while working in the field so their horse may suffer from anxiety. Whips may also ACE their horse to eliminate the chances of stepping on a hound.

[MySparrow]

I’m not being argumentative, I’m just curious. I hilltopped, cubbed and was blooded riding a variety of horses. I just am not sure how we managed to do this without Ace, if it’s necessary now? I rode some hunt-bred TBs, some OTTBs, a Morgan and a Morgan cross over the years that I foxhunted. I can’t imagine that they were less high and willing to go than are horses today. What has changed?

[xeroxchick]

Never

I have never hunted a drugged horse.

[stp]

Quick fix

No argument either but mostly, I think it is the human nature to find a quick fix. I almost did it but chickened out. I too am old, hunted back then and we were not afraid. Today we are in tune to others our age who are contemplating this. When I considered it, I was frustrated with a horse that would NOT get over the first 15 minutes, but chickened out because a stumble scares me just as much as a buck. I decided I’d rather go off over his head than under his back!

[gothedistance]

@MySparrow;2947630

What has changed?

Nothing has changed… except that nowadays the scenario of having the hunt grooms necessary to take the staff hunters out to get them started in the hunt field…is rarely found anymore. In the modern hunt field it is more often than not up to the owner of the horse to do all those initial introductions, on the owner’s personal time.

ACE has now taken the place of those old-time grooms. It allows a horse a more relaxed frame of mind for being introduced to something as exciting as the hunt field and if it helps both horse and rider to get over the first time jitters, that’s a good thing.

[Painted_Wings]

I’ve never done it

But I’m not opposed to it. There are probably situations I would do it.

Depending on the horse I’ll start them in the hilltopper field even if they jump just fine. It goes a little slower. I also take them roading in the summer if I can to get them used to hounds and such.

Lately I’ve started taking my youngsters out to road the beagles. I have a 3 1/2 yr old filly who’s never been foxhunting but she walks out beagles on a loose rein and is used to the horn and the beagles jumping on her. She does get excited when they get on a bunny and start speaking even though it does not cause us to take off running like with foxhunting. I found that very interesting. I knew my horses got excited when they heard the hounds start speaking but I always assumed it was because they knew they would be running soon. My little filly gets excited even though we never run after the beagles although sometimes we do pick up a trot.

I have a couple that I started right off first flight. Depends on the horse and what they’ve done or what I know about them.

I wouldn’t want a horse I had to ace all the time for hunting.

You can see it when a horse that started out really quiet and nice starts jigging after two hours. We have a few of those but it is certainly not the rule.

I did it the first year I outrode at Rolex. With the big crowds and having to hold your position for four hours, I didn’t want to risk it. But then you really just have to stand around and look pretty. It’s really hard to keep your horse quiet when horses go galloping by as fast as those do while you have to stand still.

Even at Rolex though I haven’t aced him in years. The only thing that really bothers him now is the big splash sound of horses landing in the water if I am posted near the head of the lake. I just have to stay far enough away that its not that loud.

[SEPowell]

I never use ace. Most of us take care of those problems with a little port :lol:

[armandh]

I ignored the advise to use ace

but maybe I should have listened. my former hunt horse [pictured in my profile] [RIP] had a pre-hunt routine. a stout ride the day B4 the hunt, no grain the morning of the hunt, and a double bridle, and he was still very strong through the first run. we often got a suggestion that ace might help.
by the third year it was just tack him up and throw him in the trailer. we were down to using a jointed pelham. he never got over being strong the first 20 minutes. especially on a cool day just after being clipped. but training takes time. my current horse is way quiet.

[SidesaddleRider]

Normally, we do not ace. However, we have one horse, an 18-yr old retired TB timber horse, who we give ace to, for his own good. Why? Otherwise, he gets SO excited at the beginning, his heart starts pounding extremely hard and quick. At his age, I don’t think that it is a good idea. With ace, he remains calm, and I think much better for him, health-wise.

(Even with, he still has to go in a double-bridle he’s so strong… and to prove why foxhunters recommend bitting up for novices, he goes in a happy mouth snaffle at home! ;))

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;2947692]
Nothing has changed… except that nowadays the scenario of having the hunt grooms necessary to take the staff hunters out to get them started in the hunt field…is rarely found anymore. In the modern hunt field it is more often than not up to the owner of the horse to do all those initial introductions, on the owner’s personal time.

ACE has now taken the place of those old-time grooms. It allows a horse a more relaxed frame of mind for being introduced to something as exciting as the hunt field and if it helps both horse and rider to get over the first time jitters, that’s a good thing.[/QUOTE]

Grooms? What grooms? Nobody told me I was supposed to have a groom! Dangit, I miss all the good stuff.

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=SEPowell;2947787]
I never use ace. Most of us take care of those problems with a little port :lol:[/QUOTE]

Now that I do recall! My first taste of liquor was a stirrup cup when I was 13.

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=SidesaddleRider;2948073]
Normally, we do not ace. However, we have one horse, an 18-yr old retired TB timber horse, who we give ace to, for his own good. Why? Otherwise, he gets SO excited at the beginning, his heart starts pounding extremely hard and quick. At his age, I don’t think that it is a good idea. With ace, he remains calm, and I think much better for him, health-wise.

(Even with, he still has to go in a double-bridle he’s so strong… and to prove why foxhunters recommend bitting up for novices, he goes in a happy mouth snaffle at home! ;))[/QUOTE]

Maybe in the day we just wouldn’t have hunted a horse who might give himself a heart attack at first bugle?

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=Painted Wings;2947777]
But I’m not opposed to it. There are probably situations I would do it.

Depending on the horse I’ll start them in the hilltopper field even if they jump just fine. It goes a little slower. I also take them roading in the summer if I can to get them used to hounds and such.

Lately I’ve started taking my youngsters out to road the beagles. I have a 3 1/2 yr old filly who’s never been foxhunting but she walks out beagles on a loose rein and is used to the horn and the beagles jumping on her. She does get excited when they get on a bunny and start speaking even though it does not cause us to take off running like with foxhunting. I found that very interesting. I knew my horses got excited when they heard the hounds start speaking but I always assumed it was because they knew they would be running soon. My little filly gets excited even though we never run after the beagles although sometimes we do pick up a trot.

I have a couple that I started right off first flight. Depends on the horse and what they’ve done or what I know about them.

I wouldn’t want a horse I had to ace all the time for hunting.

You can see it when a horse that started out really quiet and nice starts jigging after two hours. We have a few of those but it is certainly not the rule.

I did it the first year I outrode at Rolex. With the big crowds and having to hold your position for four hours, I didn’t want to risk it. But then you really just have to stand around and look pretty. It’s really hard to keep your horse quiet when horses go galloping by as fast as those do while you have to stand still.

Even at Rolex though I haven’t aced him in years. The only thing that really bothers him now is the big splash sound of horses landing in the water if I am posted near the head of the lake. I just have to stay far enough away that its not that loud.[/QUOTE]

Do they use Ace with racetrack ponies? Or rodeo rider working stock?

[Thomas_1]

Got to say I was shocked and appalled at the fact that some are tranquilising their horses to get them out and about and doing things.

In the UK its not a substance that is allowed at all at any competitive event ever.

In any case if you read the manufacturers contraindications and instructions, it clearly states that “The Horse should not in any circumstances be ridden within 36 hours of administration of a clinical dose.”

[Painted_Wings]

I don’t know how old you are

But when I first started hunting 25 yrs ago there were more people using Ace than I notice today. I think in general we have a higher percentage of better riders.

In those days they used the Ace granules in their morning food rather than the injectable. There were a couple of full service barns that hauled the horses to the meet and people that showed up in their Mercedes or Ferrari even. They knew nothing about horse management and just hopped on their cleaned up and tacked up horse. I think most had no clue that their horses were “medicated” by the barn owner that also made sure their horse was exercised during the week for them and fit enough to hunt.

What I’ve also noticed is that there are fewer refusals at the jumps and fewer falls.

I’ve also noticed that fewer riders are “medicated”. Very few people in the field now carry flasks. In those days it was 90% or more and they hit them hard. I guess if you have a servant to trailer your horse home you can drink more.

Personally I only carry a flask on special occaision days like blessing and the Western Challenge and I don’t drink that much because I have to trailer my horse home.

So when we say that Ace has taken the place of the “grooms” I don’t think that’s 100% correct. I think the grooms were just doing the dirty work for them.

Maybe 40 yrs ago or more the grooms did the work of the Ace but 25 yrs ago it was the grooms that were doing the Acing.