Earplugs work great, too, for calming a horse down in the hunt field. I tell people they are equal to a 1/2cc of ace …that doesn’t wear off! :lol:
Got this trick from the show ring H/J crowd who need to put in perfect rounds but aren’t allowed to legally give ACE anymore.
You can buy the big fuzzy pom-poms used for horse ear plug at the craft stores for 1/10 the price they sell for at the tack stores.
[QUOTE=Weatherford;2954447]
The problem with ace is that horses can’t LEARN when they are aced (medical fact) - so giving them some to help them when starting isn’t really helping them (despite how it appears to you!) Ace dulls the horses’ reactions - thus, if a horse is truly afraid, it will not be able to handle that fear in such a way that it lessens - what they will remember is the fear as much as the “good” experience.
We used to hack the greenies to the meet so the horses would lose that “edge” and settle more quickly. If the meet were far away, we’d trailer part way there. It worked!
I have one horse to whom I give some oral ace to clip - but that is only because he had a bad experience and there is no other /better tranq to give him. :([/QUOTE]
I beg to differ on the comment that it’s been proven that horses cant learn on ace…in fact, there was just a study done that says horses DO have the capability to learn ON ace…a happy experience outways an unhappy experience anyday. (Now I’ll have to go dig up that article).
We have trained at the track, and have given small amounts of ace to our youngsters for their first experience at the starting gate…we have always seen great results doing this, horses stay calm, and realize the big green monster standing there is not going to eat them alive. I have also used it while retraining a bad horse to load in a trailer… they seem to remember that it wasnt so bad the next time I go to load. (I’m also talking about traumatized horses).
Pom-poms can work but as with anything, practice w/ them at home first! A gelding I once owned had issues w/ the sound system at one indoor arena where we showed. Someone offered me pom-poms for the day. I put them in and he spent the next 15 minutes shaking his head trying to dislodge them. He quit shaking his head in the 16th minute, when I removed them. 
According to my vet, this is not true. I certainly have seen that my horse continues to learn when Aced. I give him ACE to help avoid separation anxiety and usually only give it a few times at the beginning of the season. It keeps him from running himself silly until he remembers that we always come back.
Yup! I put them in as the horse is eating breakfast, or a treat, always about an hour before the horse ever climbs on the trailer. The more they are used, the less “irritating” they become for a horse – to the point where there is only one head shake, and that’s it.
Ear plugs really do work well in the hunt field – sound softening, not deadening, so a horse can still hear you, just… not as loudly. I’ve also noticed the horse tends to transfer from using their ears (the major tool prey uses to gather the majority of information) to using their eyes which are a “lesser” sense.
[QUOTE=Weatherford;2954447]
We used to hack the greenies to the meet so the horses would lose that “edge” and settle more quickly. If the meet were far away, we’d trailer part way there. It worked!:([/QUOTE]
You have touched on a very important facet of hunting today v. years ago.
An experienced horseman told me recently that in a manner of speaking, we treat our horses too well in this day and age. When asked exactly what he meant, he replied that when he was growing up fieldhunters were often:
kept out 24x7;
unclipped;
no shoes;
no grain;
no trailer (so they were hacked miles to a meet);
ridden much more regularly and harder during the week.
Think about it.
A clipped horse that is full of grain, kept up the night before in a cozy stall with a manger full of hay, 4 shoes, ridden lightly since the last hunt, put on a trailer Sat. AM and he comes off in 35 degree weather with a chilly breeze blowing up his back and he is expected to stand quietly with a 20-50 other horses after a short gallop when hounds move off?
Really, it is amazing some of them do as well as they do today and no wonder ace is used. Today’s schedule’s do not allow for yesterday’s luxuries (grooms and daily riding) and drugs are a quick fix for any number of situations in today’s fast paced world where time is not an option.
Tantivy1- excellent points! Thanks for sharing.
I miss those days
I used to have a half mile hack to most meets. It was wonderful! Just enough to get the snorts out. I’ve noticed my young horse does much better if we hack for a while before putting the hounds in to the covert. It certainly does take the edge off.
Mine are out 24/7 so that helps things greatly.
"Acertainsmile
I beg to differ on the comment that it’s been proven that horses cant learn on ace…in fact, there was just a study done that says horses DO have the capability to learn ON ace…a happy experience outways an unhappy experience anyday. (Now I’ll have to go dig up that article)."
I agree
We have a lot of horses right off the track and sometimes in group school some just come seriously un-done. The thing that ace helped with on 2 of them was that 5 times we took them out in company where we basically only have one person jumping at a time and mill around in a tight group. Both these previously raced horses just fretted and foamed up! However that next time on a little ace they stood around and relaxed into the group, they now go out with 65% better behavior after chilling on Ace twice in large groups in the open. SO I disagree with weatherford that they can not benefit educationally from ace. The horse get better and better as they had a opportunity albeit through a little chemistry!
Now I do not believe a seriously sedated horse on torb/dorm is learning anything as his penis hangs out and he is dead to the world, ace does not sedate to that level and we do not use that much if and when we do use it! Again I think it is a dangerous drug to clip on as it does not REALLY sedate and can sweat some horses up which is anti productive for clipping!
I haven’t been hunting since I was a kid, back in the 70’s in Middleburg, VA (Orange County Hunt) (Good Ol Melvin Poe for those of you in VA) but anyway I take offense to the poster saying we horseshow people ace our horses. First of all it is not allowed per USEF and we would get a violation for such acts. Secondly we use all tricks to get our horses quiet. Earplugs, turn out, working them, putting them back in the stall to chill, the dreaded lunging, which BTW my horse liked to lunge, because he liked it, why I don’t know, I used to say it was his treadmill and he liked the workout. We take our horses to shows just to hang out and get used to the grounds, so maybe the hunting peeps could borrow some of our tricks to get their horses calm to hunt. And I’m sure there are lots more ideas from others here!
You guys seriously terrify me. :eek: I can’t imagine riding an even slightly tranqed horse - EVER, much less in the hunt field, over uneven ground.
Several of my youngsters are hunting. One went this year for the first time. His amateur owner, who had only previously hunted herself about 10 times the previous year took him out. Not a problem. They have gone out about 5 times now. No drugs. These are not horses in heavy work. They are ridden about once or twice a week other than hunting.
A rider tried to put ear muffs into one of my horses at a hunter show once. He started bucking after fences. He kept up the bucking at home, and threw some major fits. Removed the ear muffs, and he was back to his quiet self. Some horses really dislike them.
No way
There was an article a year or so ago in Horse Journal about use of Ace, and it discouraged the practice of using it as a “riding or training aid” because of the risk of veterinary side effects. The article also stated that a horse does not desensitize to stimulae when on ace–if you don’t believe this, just ask someone who has had to ace a horse in order to shoe it and see how easy it was to wean them off. Most never can be.
Personally, I think that the practice is antithetical to horsemanship. Horsemen put the welfare of the horse first. Alternatives to ace are: (1) get a seasoned hunt horse or (2) get more instruction and experience as a rider. If you don’t want to bother with caring about your “sports equipment” get a dirt bike.
:mad:
Option 3, purchase a horse with an easier going, amateur suitable brain - less hot, less sensitive, less reactive.
I do have a youngster that was whipped off of a few times last year, and even led the field once - no ace needed.
Studies at Auburn University recently proved a horses ability to learn is not inhibited by Ace. But-any hard-to-shoe horse Aced enough to safely shoe though, is likely drunk as a monkey and outside the scope of the study.
A lot of reiners and cutters are riding hot as a 2 dollar pistol babies and rather than put endless miles on them…again- just babies that are bred to be super reactive and light…well you’ll see Ace in place in the program to help them settle and relax rather than have that much more wear and tear on the joints.
In many cases the best horse is a tired horse- but many horses aren’t ridden enough to show any loss of edge and bloom…so if Ace makes 'em a little safer, so be it. If the normally excellent riding horse gets too amped up at the first hunt or every hunt- I don’t see the problem with it. SOME horses will learn to be better behaved, some just Won’t Get It. That’s life and that’s horses.
SO GLAD you wrote this.
While I keep all the horses out 24x7, only the made hunters get grain (and only a little on hunting days), body clips, and shoes; those being started are left rough. Unfortunately, never have enough time to ride during the week and as there are no hunts within hacking distance, the trailer is constantly on the road.
However, have been most fortunate in that none of them, neither the made ones nor the youngsters, get so much as a drop of any chemical enhancement nor any stuff added in their food. It is just not part of the program. Would I use it? Maybe, very reluctantly, on a horse by horse basis, but then only for a very limited timeframe (like for 2-3 hunts) and if it had to be used beyond that, there would have a problem as I would never be comfortable using it regularly.
So…when I go looking for a horse, I have to find easy keepers, with tough feet, short backs etc. plus quiet personalities, as you wrote above: “less hot, sensitive and reactive”.
BINGO
They are out there, but they are very often cold blooded beasts or half breds and they do not have the pretty heads and lovely long necks and silky tails and classical build and color that so many, many people desperately want to be seen riding in the hunt field, be it for their looks or their perceived abilities.
Nope, have had to give that all up and you will see me on short-necked wide-backed large-rumped size 3-5 feet nags with curly tails and in all colors under the sun.
Oh, and no pretty heads here; cute, yes, with kind and quiet, honest eyes, but no gorgeous breedy heads do I bridle on a hunting morning <sigh>.
There is a price to pay for that lovely head and I am not interested nor can I afford it in time, energy, patience or hard dollars.
So, we get left behind on some particularly long and hot runs but I nearly always catch up and boy do I learn the country in the meantime! 
The crux of the matter…in many instances, in order to achieve the look some people are striving for, or the ultra performance machine, the better looking horse is purchased, one that is not really suitable for the hunt field, and in order to make said purchase work…out comes that needle.
It many instances, that needle is a substitute for…you guessed it, time, energy, patience or hard dollars.
You can pay now or you can pay later but you probably are gonna pay somehow, someday.
My older Hanoverian, and Dutch Gelderlander lined horses are the easier going type. Some with a lot of TB blood are also easier going. You just have to look for the right brain.
As an owner of a boarding barn, many of my friends and customers purchased mutts, QHs and crossbreds over the years. Fun horses, do it all kind of horses, but not enough gaits or jump style to be competitive showing in Hunters, dressage, and eventing.
I started breeding because I wanted to create a horse that is more athletic, good gaits, but still had the easier going brain. I chose my Warmblood lines carefully with that in mind. They are everything I hoped for and more.
My vet bred a horse to one of my boys when she was looking to produce her kid’s next horse to grow up with. It worked just as planned, with her daughter hunting the filly last year as a 4 year old. The kid stayed with the Hilltoppers for about 10 minutes, and then joined the field on the filly’s very first time out. Oh, yeah, she is out of a TB mare, so actually about 75% TB. Pretty, athletic, AND a good, quiet brain.
Getting the right horse for the job is not just about luck. You CAN intentionally breed for it, and it WORKS!
[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;2955142]
There was an article a year or so ago in Horse Journal about use of Ace, and it discouraged the practice of using it as a “riding or training aid” because of the risk of veterinary side effects. The article also stated that a horse does not desensitize to stimulae when on ace–if you don’t believe this, just ask someone who has had to ace a horse in order to shoe it and see how easy it was to wean them off. Most never can be.
Personally, I think that the practice is antithetical to horsemanship. Horsemen put the welfare of the horse first. Alternatives to ace are: (1) get a seasoned hunt horse or (2) get more instruction and experience as a rider. If you don’t want to bother with caring about your “sports equipment” get a dirt bike.
:mad:[/QUOTE]
I especially want to comment on the ONE horse that you had that ace did not help… I think that is a real blanket statement… in my experience, I have used Ace on a two yr old that was dangerous to shoe…and I practiced and practiced with his feet daily, but there was still nothing like a farrier driving nails into his feet…I aced him twice, by the third time he was much better with NO ace… and my farrier thanked me for keeping him safe.
My point is that sometimes horses do need a little help, I never substitute ace for training, or my riding ability. I agree that ace will help with a nervous horse, but will not do anything beneficial to a wild eyed crazy one!
Tantivy- I agree about finding a nice, go-all-day type. It’s hard. That’s why I’ve resorted to “building” my own.
Upon starting to ride for the lady I currently ride for, I can count the times we’ve used ace on one hand. And of those times, I think half were on non-TB’s. We try to get the quiet ones. I can also say that I never once rode an aced horse when I used to ride hunters for a steeplechase trainer.
Although, you are going to pay a pretty penny for an “insurance policy.” (a term the lady I ride for has coined for my young horse)
He’s 3/4 TB and 1/4 other (I won’t tell because I like to make people guess, which they never can), but he goes out with Greenspring and has kept up and stayed out longer than many of the TB’s. He doesn’t cover the ground as fast as a TB, but he sure can keep up and is safe!! (he’s never been aced to ride either, but he would almost fall over on 1/2cc anyways)
Tantivy, you’re my
new hero!
[QUOTE=Tantivy1;2955467]
SO GLAD you wrote this.
While I keep all the horses out 24x7, only the made hunters get grain (and only a little on hunting days), body clips, and shoes; those being started are left rough. Unfortunately, never have enough time to ride during the week and as there are no hunts within hacking distance, the trailer is constantly on the road.
However, have been most fortunate in that none of them, neither the made ones nor the youngsters, get so much as a drop of any chemical enhancement nor any stuff added in their food. It is just not part of the program. Would I use it? Maybe, very reluctantly, on a horse by horse basis, but then only for a very limited timeframe (like for 2-3 hunts) and if it had to be used beyond that, there would have a problem as I would never be comfortable using it regularly.
So…when I go looking for a horse, I have to find easy keepers, with tough feet, short backs etc. plus quiet personalities, as you wrote above: “less hot, sensitive and reactive”.
BINGO
They are out there, but they are very often cold blooded beasts or half breds and they do not have the pretty heads and lovely long necks and silky tails and classical build and color that so many, many people desperately want to be seen riding in the hunt field, be it for their looks or their perceived abilities.
Nope, have had to give that all up and you will see me on short-necked wide-backed large-rumped size 3-5 feet nags with curly tails and in all colors under the sun.
Oh, and no pretty heads here; cute, yes, with kind and quiet, honest eyes, but no gorgeous breedy heads do I bridle on a hunting morning <sigh>.
There is a price to pay for that lovely head and I am not interested nor can I afford it in time, energy, patience or hard dollars.
So, we get left behind on some particularly long and hot runs but I nearly always catch up and boy do I learn the country in the meantime!
The crux of the matter…in many instances, in order to achieve the look some people are striving for, or the ultra performance machine, the better looking horse is purchased, one that is not really suitable for the hunt field, and in order to make said purchase work…out comes that needle.
It many instances, that needle is a substitute for…you guessed it, time, energy, patience or hard dollars.
You can pay now or you can pay later but you probably are gonna pay somehow, someday.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Darlyn
I learned a lot from you when I was on the breeding forum preparing for Ragtime’s arrival, and I really appreciate your comments here!
[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2955572]
My older Hanoverian, and Dutch Gelderlander lined horses are the easier going type. Some with a lot of TB blood are also easier going. You just have to look for the right brain.
As an owner of a boarding barn, many of my friends and customers purchased mutts, QHs and crossbreds over the years. Fun horses, do it all kind of horses, but not enough gaits or jump style to be competitive showing in Hunters, dressage, and eventing.
I started breeding because I wanted to create a horse that is more athletic, good gaits, but still had the easier going brain. I chose my Warmblood lines carefully with that in mind. They are everything I hoped for and more.
My vet bred a horse to one of my boys when she was looking to produce her kid’s next horse to grow up with. It worked just as planned, with her daughter hunting the filly last year as a 4 year old. The kid stayed with the Hilltoppers for about 10 minutes, and then joined the field on the filly’s very first time out. Oh, yeah, she is out of a TB mare, so actually about 75% TB. Pretty, athletic, AND a good, quiet brain.
Getting the right horse for the job is not just about luck. You CAN intentionally breed for it, and it WORKS![/QUOTE]
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