do you Ace?

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;2955142]
There was an article a year or so ago in Horse Journal about use of Ace, and it discouraged the practice of using it as a “riding or training aid” because of the risk of veterinary side effects. The article also stated that a horse does not desensitize to stimulae when on ace–if you don’t believe this, just ask someone who has had to ace a horse in order to shoe it and see how easy it was to wean them off. Most never can be.

Personally, I think that the practice is antithetical to horsemanship. Horsemen put the welfare of the horse first. Alternatives to ace are: (1) get a seasoned hunt horse or (2) get more instruction and experience as a rider. If you don’t want to bother with caring about your “sports equipment” get a dirt bike.
:mad:[/QUOTE]

Well said.

[Tantivy1]

[QUOTE=SteeleRdr;2955654]
Tantivy- I agree about finding a nice, go-all-day type. It’s hard. That’s why I’ve resorted to “building” my own. He’s 3/4 TB and 1/4 other (I won’t tell because I like to make people guess, which they never can), but he goes out with Greenspring and has kept up and stayed out longer than many of the TB’s. He doesn’t cover the ground as fast as a TB, but he sure can keep up and is safe!! [/QUOTE]

SR, you have hit the nail on the head with that combo.

The majority of half breds cannot keep up with the faster paced hunts; only the rare individual can. But…today, the majority of hunts are probably not faster paced.

But the 3/4 TB cross, that is the ticket. Brains & beauty.

But oh-so-hard to find on this side of the pond…hopefully, that will change in the years to come.

Something with a bit of substance in the body, yet a quality look about them, leggier yet with extra bone and foot, and best of all, brains, so NO NEEDLE NEEDED!

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;2954503]
Earplugs work great, too, for calming a horse down in the hunt field. I tell people they are equal to a 1/2cc of ace …that doesn’t wear off! :lol:

Got this trick from the show ring H/J crowd who need to put in perfect rounds but aren’t allowed to legally give ACE anymore.

You can buy the big fuzzy pom-poms used for horse ear plug at the craft stores for 1/10 the price they sell for at the tack stores.[/QUOTE]

Good idea! I think I’ll buy some pink and purple pom poms for my young gentleman whip-in-training!

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=Tantivy1;2955794]
SR, you have hit the nail on the head with that combo.

The majority of half breds cannot keep up with the faster paced hunts; only the rare individual can. But…today, the majority of hunts are probably not faster paced.

But the 3/4 TB cross, that is the ticket. Brains & beauty.

But oh-so-hard to find on this side of the pond…hopefully, that will change in the years to come.

Something with a bit of substance in the body, yet a quality look about them, leggier yet with extra bone and foot, and best of all, brains, so NO NEEDLE NEEDED! :)[/QUOTE]

Purely by chance I came across some foxhunt photos of Prince Charles and – oh, can’t remember what title she bears, Camilla anyway – in a magazine last night. I was struck by the sturdy, workmanlike demeanor and calm, intelligent eye of the horses they rode. Lovely animals, nothing like the wild-eyed, fine-drawn critters I see people trying to hunt here.

[SteeleRdr]

The Greenspring horse I spoke of- No Ace required (sorry to take this off topic to type of horse that doesn’t need ace).

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/twebb/Steele%20barn/pics/maxconf.jpg

I’ll eventually put that up to see who can guess the 1/4

And I even got him on this side of the pond!

[SLW]

Nice looking horse Steelrdr. Do you have a photo of him trotting or jumping?? He has one hell of a set of shoulders on him.

[SteeleRdr]

Let me find a picture from him showing this summer. And I’ll PM it to you so I don’t hijack the thread. He’s got super show hunter form!

[Painted_Wings]

Here are three of the horses we outride at Rolex

http://www.pbase.com/stl_don/image/78142108

All three are registered paints.

[MySparrow]

Just in passing, this month’s Equus has a short article on measuring ponies. It notes that sedating a horse before measuring can reduce its height by up to 1.75 inches, because it relaxes the muscles of the torso, thereby lowering the withers.

[Painted_Wings]

That’s very interesting as I have a 14.3 hand Honey myself. She hunts to beagles instead of foxhounds because she’s so small.

http://www.pbase.com/stl_don/image/85400673

Here you can see how really small she is:

http://www.pbase.com/stl_don/image/85400666

[MySparrow]

what a cutie!

[Frecklefacedfrannie]

Dale,
If you put the pom poms in his ears he will hear even LESS! Do we need that?:lol:
Enjoyed this thread.
At the hunt Dale is discussing, there are those who believe in using Ace and those who don’t. They coexist quite nicely. What a great experience foxhunting has been for my son (the young man). Thanks everyone for keeping the sport alive and contributing to the personal growth my son has had. Which is quite infinitissimal to the contribution Dale has made to his growth and character.
FFF

[Beverley]

Count me as one that hasn’t used Ace in 37 years of hunting. Including starting ex-steeplechasers/OTTBs in the hunt field and as staff horses. Granted, I don’t mind a bit of leaping/bucking etc until they settle in, but in my opinion those who do mind such antics should seek out the laid back horse. They do exist and are available- but so many get caught up in ego and want the pretty horse rather than the plain jane that gets the job done well.

My opinion on the subject is no doubt swayed by a really bad wreck I witnessed involving an aced horse. I have no doubt that w/o the ace, the wreck would not have occurred.

I’m getting ready to take my 5 yo hunting for the first time. I intend to hilltop w/Red Rock at an upcoming meet only 400 miles from my house. He won’t be on anything. I want to know what he really thinks!

I do know people who routinely use low doses of ace, ostensibly to prevent tying up. I also know someone who routinely ‘makes’ hunters on ace, and someone else who bought one of those ‘made’ hunters and really felt the horse was lacking in some fundamentals, because of the use of ace.

That said, I would never say never, certainly ace is a good tool for things like shoeing. But for me, if a horse needs drugs to do a job, then what that horse really needs is another job. And, as I think about it, Beverly Sills’ quote comes to mind- there are no shortcuts to anyplace worth going.

[MySparrow]

[QUOTE=Frecklefacedfrannie;2964467]
Dale,
If you put the pom poms in his ears he will hear even LESS! Do we need that?:lol:
Enjoyed this thread.
At the hunt Dale is discussing, there are those who believe in using Ace and those who don’t. They coexist quite nicely. What a great experience foxhunting has been for my son (the young man). Thanks everyone for keeping the sport alive and contributing to the personal growth my son has had. Which is quite infinitissimal to the contribution Dale has made to his growth and character.
FFF[/QUOTE]

:lol:I think the pompoms are for the horse, Fran! :lol:

Thanks for your kind words. I happen to think that your son has it in him to be a force for good in this world.

[vineyridge]

MySparrow

I think I know the hunt and the folks you are talking about, and Ace is very, very commonly used. Sometimes, the owners/riders don’t even know their horse has been aced.

I have nothing against it, and have been known to ask for it for my horse when we haven’t been able to get out and work the way we should before hunting–ie roading, trail riding in groups, etc. But that’s just the culture there. If I had been somewhere else, it probably never would have crossed my mind.

[Foxhunt4me]

ACE is the place

" But the 3/4 TB cross, that is the ticket. Brains & beauty. "

LOL - the 1/4 Cleveland Bay that I started out foxhunting on seemed to have missed out on the brains part - but that was the thought when he was bred …

When I started hunting ( 1995 ) Ace was very common - I even saw people administering it at the halfway point. I never saw an accident on those horses and have ridden using it myself now and then years back as a training tool - for a hunt or 3. By the time I had my last hunt in that same hunt in 2006 I did not know of a single person that was using it. It seemed to be a fad at that earlier time as there were a lot of riders that had horses that were more suited for other pursuits and riders that wanted the 'shortcut ’ . Far as I remember just about all those riders that were using it are out of foxhunting ( like me at the present ) and most no longer ride much if any at all ( although I ride a lot still ) . There were a lot of adult riders that didnt or couldnt spend the butt time in the saddle to either be capable or confident to ride their horse. Many times people thought what was 'bad ’ bahavior was really just normal behavior for a horse in that situation.

[SEPowell]

@Tantivy1;2955467

So…when I go looking for a horse, I have to find easy keepers, with tough feet, short backs etc. plus quiet personalities, as you wrote above: “less hot, sensitive and reactive”.

BINGO

They are out there, but they are very often cold blooded beasts or half breds and they do not have the pretty heads and lovely long necks and silky tails and classical build and color that so many, many people desperately want to be seen riding in the hunt field, be it for their looks or their perceived abilities.

Nope, have had to give that all up and you will see me on short-necked wide-backed large-rumped size 3-5 feet nags with curly tails and in all colors under the sun.

Oh, and no pretty heads here; cute, yes, with kind and quiet, honest eyes, but no gorgeous breedy heads do I bridle on a hunting morning <sigh>.

I loved your post. You sound like you have good sturdy horses and enjoy them.

I hunt off track tbs. Yes they’re handsome and pretty and can also be pretty hot. But I never use ace and that may be because our hunt does not have tiers, nor does it have a field master. I can go to the front and keep them moving and happy. I have a great time and they love to hunt. I only have problems when I crank down on them and try to keep them back.

If given the choice they always prefer to be out. I’ve gotten so that I only put them in to feed them, and then they always whine and say, “Oh do we have to eat inside?” (I tried to feed them out together but there were too many food fights…) I keep them fit for about 6 miles and they stay sound. But I have a lot of time to spend with them and I have the accomodations for 24/7 turnout. So I guess we all have to do what works for us. Maybe if I didn’t have the options I have I’d give ace a try b/c I could never give up my ottbs… On second thought, I know I wouldn’t try it, I’m too much of a purest. I’d find the horse another job.

[galwaybay]

Well I know lots of people who Ace, lots who don’t - so I think sometimes the ACE is as much for the person as it is for the horse. A friend of mine just got an Irish horse to hunt. She has a mare that’s laid up who she always Aced - even though she said she was the “best horse in the field”. When she first hunted the Irish horse I heard her say - “this is the first time I’ve hunted w/o ACE” okay and she’s been hunting 30+ years. She’s been around horses all of her life - so she’s a pretty good horsewoman. That said, another friend of mine takes her OTTB out hunting and she’s a saint w/o ACE. I think in part the use of ACE is also because there are alot of people hunting who are not really good riders/horsepeople.
The weekend rider so to speak, loves the adrenaline of hunting but only sees their horse when they’re unloaded from the trailer

[horseandhound]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;2948208]
Got to say I was shocked and appalled at the fact that some are tranquilising their horses to get them out and about and doing things.

In the UK its not a substance that is allowed at all at any competitive event ever.

In any case if you read the manufacturers contraindications and instructions, it clearly states that “The Horse should not in any circumstances be ridden within 36 hours of administration of a clinical dose.”[/QUOTE]

Thomas I’m on par with you!! I’m still reeling in shock over here in the states that ANYONE who gets hold of controlled substances can self administer and many don’t know the side effects/withholds etc. It’s unbelievable that a rider would think of acing a horse to have an “easier ride”…whatever happened to being an accomplished rider?

I was born and raised in the UK, started hunting at a single digit age and pretty much took a young or newbie horse/pony out cubbing/hunting and winged it!! Heck…I was ditched plenty of times but never did I think of tranqing a horse. Even now, living in the states, I find it an abhorrent practise to tranq a horse in order to compete/pleasure ride etc.

[Vkent]

@Foxhunt4me;2965060

" But the 3/4 TB cross, that is the ticket. Brains & beauty. "

LOL - the 1/4 Cleveland Bay that I started out foxhunting on seemed to have missed out on the brains part - but that was the thought when he was bred …

AAHH!! I Love Clevelands! Perhaps its because I work at a CB breeding farm and they gave me my first real taste of hunting! So I am biased lol! I get to play with the CB’s and CB/TB crosses aaallllll day long and LOVE it! One is going to be my mare’s future baby daddy!