[QUOTE=Bluey;4651972]
Honestly!
You realize that the president of the HSUS said many years ago: “One generation and no more domestic animals and none too soon for me” and meant it, as his life’s work has been that of an animal right’s fanatic.:eek:[/QUOTE]
Can you show me that quote? thanks! I saw HSUS on the oprah show about puppy mills and they were saying to buy dogs from the shelters or the show breeders who are much more responsible about the dogs they breed.
[QUOTE=ridgeback;4651978]
Can you show me that quote? thanks[/QUOTE]
Sure, this is who the HSUS is:
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/136-humane-society-of-the-united-states
You will find that and similar jewels under the “qoutas”, on the green menu on the right, along with the financials, showing the millions they make every year from donations by the gullible public they send mailings with sad pictures of dogs in shelters, but only an extremely small fraction go to help animals directly.
I get those all the time.:rolleyes:
It is bad business when they now are trying to direct horse training policies at the top.:eek:
[QUOTE=Dressage Art;4651770]
Thank you.
Sjef took it even further and it become even trickier and more dangerous in the not supper talented and supper skilled hands! B/c he keeps the hyper flexion with tensions of the reins for prolonged periods of time with no releases = no break for horses from continues, fixed flexions.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure what Sjef is doing is WITH TENSION OF THE REINS FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME WITH NO RELEASES???
How do you know this? According to Anky’s master class at Odense, this is not the case.
[QUOTE=ridgeback;4651978]
Can you show me that quote? thanks! I saw HSUS on the oprah show about puppy mills and they were saying to buy dogs from the shelters or the show breeders who are much more responsible about the dogs they breed.[/QUOTE]
Answering your added to post.
Just read that in the link provided and then tell me who the HSUS is.
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/136-humane-society-of-the-united-states
Ophra is, well, Ophra, a TV celebrity and the president of the HSUS is her friend.
You need to get information in other places than there, really.:yes:
[QUOTE=Bluey;4651993]
Answering your added to post.
Just read that in the link provided and then tell me who the HSUS is.
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/136-humane-society-of-the-united-states
Ophra is, well, Ophra, a TV celebrity and the president of the HSUS is her friend.
You need to get information in other places than there, really.:yes:[/QUOTE]
Point being he was very complementary of show dog breeders and suggested people could buy from them. Again I would need to see a true quote just like Epona TV made a video that helped their cause but really didn’t show the truth I think sometimes that happens with PETA and HSUS.
[QUOTE=ridgeback;4652013]
Point being he was very complementary of show dog breeders and suggested people could buy from them. Again I would need to see a true quote just like Epona TV made a video that helped their cause but really didn’t show the truth I think sometimes that happens with PETA and HSUS.[/QUOTE]
Their ultimate goal is the elimination of all use of animals by humans, eventually and that includes our horses and all we do with them.:eek:
You won’t see that in their “soft” PR, there you will only see “animal welfare” mentioned, but those that work with them quickly see past that.
Many of their top executives, including their president, came over from PETA.
This is not the right place for that discussion.
Do a search for HSUS and you may get plenty of information, since you don’t seem to know who they are.
beyond ricidulous. How did a thread on rollkur become one on DOGS!?! 
[QUOTE=ridgeback;4651965]
That was very interesting press release from the British horse society.
HSUS Releases Statement on Dressage Hyperflexion Video
by: Edited Press Release
November 25 2009, Article # 15348
Print Email Add to Favorites RSS ShareThis
The Humane Society of the United States, has issued a statement concerning a recent Internet video depicting Swedish Olympic rider, Patrik Kittel, riding his stallion, Watermill Scandic, is a state of hyperflexion (known by some in the dressage world as “rollkur”) during warm-up at the Odense World Cup competition in Denmark.
“While no representative of The Humane Society of the United States witnessed the incident depicted in the video of Kittel and his stallion from the Odense World Cup, the images in the video are deeply troubling,” said Holly Hazard, The HSUS’ chief innovations officer. “We are pleased to see that the international governing body of equestrian sport, The Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI), is investigating. If warranted, we urge the FEI to take appropriate disciplinary action against both Kittel and the ring stewards at the show who failed to act on Watermill Scandic’s behalf.”[/QUOTE]
You may have to go back to the last page to find where the HSUS is getting involved in dressage training issues and how dogs came into the picture.
What do you think of this new development?
I think someone may have snitched to the HSUS, suggesting that this was one more place they could “help” push someone’s agenda forward.
The trouble with this, as the old phrase goes, “if you are the lamb, you should not sleep with lions”.:eek:
[QUOTE=caddym;4651991]
Are you sure what Sjef is doing is WITH TENSION OF THE REINS FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME WITH NO RELEASES???
How do you know this? According to Anky’s master class at Odense, this is not the case.[/QUOTE]
first of all, i would imagine there is a difference between training at home and the info they sell at their clinics. If nothing else Sjef is a very good businessman.
as for release. how do you release when a horse is in a degouge and draw reins wiht its nose to its chest?
and have you see n some of the videos of the riders using rollkur? it is pretty clear what is beign done - no matter what they say.
[QUOTE=Bluey;4652035]
Their ultimate goal is the elimination of all use of animals by humans, eventually and that includes our horses and all we do with them.:eek:
You won’t see that in their “soft” PR, there you will only see “animal welfare” mentioned, but those that work with them quickly see past that.
Many of their top executives, including their president, came over from PETA.
This is not the right place for that discussion.
Do a search for HSUS and you may get plenty of information, since you don’t seem to know who they are.[/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol::lol: I don’t know who they are…I know who they are I just don’t believe everything I hear…I’m all about facts and I know how things can be distorted for people’s agenda’s. I want to see actual articles or video footage of them saying that. Now I can say I’ve seen them on Oprah telling people it’s ok to be buy from show dog breeders because they use contracts etc and are more careful about their bloodlines. I also know they are outspoken about how our food animals are treated and I applaud them for that. My point in posting that article was to show you if HSUS and PETA get involved dressage as an olympic sport could become an issue. just sayin.
[QUOTE=ridgeback;4652328]
:lol::lol::lol::lol: I don’t know who they are…I know who they are I just don’t believe everything I hear…I’m all about facts and I know how things can be distorted for people’s agenda’s. I want to see actual articles or video footage of them saying that. Now I can say I’ve seen them on Oprah telling people it’s ok to be buy from show dog breeders because they use contracts etc and are more careful about their bloodlines. I also know they are outspoken about how our food animals are treated and I applaud them for that. My point in posting that article was to show you if HSUS and PETA get involved dressage as an olympic sport could become an issue. just sayin.[/QUOTE]
Think big picture, the HSUS does.
Dressage is but a very small drop in a big bucket of all humans do with and to animals.
The quotes are from publications and interviews, your choice to believe them or not.
Better start your own thread if that is what you want to talk about.
I don’t think the OP will look kindly at that much derailing, but who knows.
RK, ok, HSUS intervention in RK debates, ok, talking about HSUS and their big picture, maybe not so ok here.
[QUOTE=caddym;4651991]
Are you sure what Sjef is doing is WITH TENSION OF THE REINS FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME WITH NO RELEASES???
How do you know this? According to Anky’s master class at Odense, this is not the case.[/QUOTE]
I saw rollkur training/warm up videos, rollkur pony, and I also saw the local rollkur in the local dressage warm up = this is where I see NO release. Latest is the uncut PT video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo8W2fUjdM4&feature=related
You can watch PK video and he rides circles after circles with NO release. He only stops to put back the blue tongue with his hands back inside horse’s mouth. I didn’t see ANY releases on that video.
Baucher was teaching releases every couple of strides. I see rollkur riders riding not only for numerous strides, but up to 15 minutes with out any release of the neck or of their reins. I do not see any uberstreichen either.
Please feel free to post a video of a “quality” or “correct” rollkur. Several of us already asked for such video with no response.
[QUOTE=ridgeback;4651965]
That was very interesting press release from the British horse society.
HSUS Releases Statement on Dressage Hyperflexion Video
by: Edited Press Release
November 25 2009, Article # 15348
Print Email Add to Favorites RSS ShareThis
The Humane Society of the United States, has issued a statement concerning a recent Internet video depicting Swedish Olympic rider, Patrik Kittel, riding his stallion, Watermill Scandic, is a state of hyperflexion (known by some in the dressage world as “rollkur”) during warm-up at the Odense World Cup competition in Denmark.
“While no representative of The Humane Society of the United States witnessed the incident depicted in the video of Kittel and his stallion from the Odense World Cup, the images in the video are deeply troubling,” said Holly Hazard, The HSUS’ chief innovations officer. “We are pleased to see that the international governing body of equestrian sport, The Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI), is investigating. If warranted, we urge the FEI to take appropriate disciplinary action against both Kittel and the ring stewards at the show who failed to act on Watermill Scandic’s behalf.”[/QUOTE]
Again, thank you for posting. The “The Humane Society of the United States” has a strong voice and I’m glad that it’s voicing their opinion on Watermill Scandic’s behalf!
It’s hopeful that so many respectful organizations voicing their concern about questionable training process of rollkur.
[QUOTE=Bluey;4651927]
Yep, I don’t think that the average rider out there has an educated opinion here and it shows clearly they are not getting it.
I definitely don’t agree that training policy should be made with what all those beginners out there think, no matter how many papers they sign, that is absurd, but I guess that is the way it will be.[/QUOTE]
On PK blue tongue video, we are watching simple walk, trot, and canter. I believe that an average rider has enough knowledge to “get” if the horse is a “happy athlete” I think that average rider has enough dressage education to form their own opinion about walk, trot and canter.
We are not talking about nuances of passage and one tempi change here.
And even if we were, if this is a public shows that sell tickets for dressage enthusiasts to come and watch them and just enjoy dressage. This is public shows supported by large memberships whose base is mostly beginners and average dressage rider. I think average dressage lover can decide by themselves if it’s enjoyable for them to watch rollkur or not.
If you want dressage to be even further elitist sport, if you want to shove beginners and average riders to the side = that kind of dressage should not be practiced on our dime, in our public shows that are supported by many beginner/average members. This kind of Elite dressage should be taken out of the WEG, World Cup and Olympics = who do you think will fill out the seats to watch it? Your elite riders who understand every footfall of the elite world class horse?
I think you have quite a pompous opinion against dressage beginners and average dressage riders.
I think that dressage that sells tickets, dressage that is supported by memberships should be humane and enjoyable to watch by many riders. Not only a handful of Elite GP Group.
[QUOTE=Dressage Art;4652403]
On PK blue tongue video, we are watching simple walk, trot, and canter. I believe that an average rider has enough knowledge to “get” if the horse is a “happy athlete” I think that average rider has enough dressage education to form their own opinion about walk, trot and canter.
We are not talking about nuances of passage and one tempi change here.
And even if we were, if this is a public shows that sell tickets for dressage enthusiasts to come and watch them and just enjoy dressage. This is public shows supported by large memberships whose base is mostly beginners and average dressage rider. I think average dressage lover can decide by themselves if it’s enjoyable for them to watch rollkur or not.
If you want dressage to be even further elitist sport, if you want to shove beginners and average riders to the side = that kind of dressage should not be practiced on our dime, in our public shows that are supported by many beginner/average members. This kind of Elite dressage should be taken out of the WEG, World Cup and Olympics = who do you think will fill out the seats to watch it? Your elite riders who understand every footfall of the elite world class horse?
I think you have quite a pompous opinion against dressage beginners and average dressage riders.
I think that dressage that sells tickets, dressage that is supported by memberships should be humane and enjoyable to watch by many riders. Not only a handful of Elite GP Group.[/QUOTE]
Sorry about sounding pompous, I was trying very hard to be polite, since what I had to say was not that PC.
I was not talking as much about those watching dressage in venues as I hear they have in Europe, with a fairly educated audience, more here, where, really, not very PC, rather pompous, I know, I don’t think many loud protesters seem to know that much.
HSUS might not be the “respectful organization” you think it is…with animal welfare being important to them. Here are some direct and exact quotes from the HSUS:
“I don’t have a hands-on fondness for animals…To this day I don’t feel bonded to any non-human animal. I like them and I pet them and I’m kind to them, but there’s no special bond between me and other animals.” Wayne Pacelle
“We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. . One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding.” Wayne Pacelle, Senior VP of Humane Society of the US
When asked if he envisioned a future without pets, “If I had my personal view, perhaps that might take hold. In fact, I don’t want to see another dog or cat born.” Wayne Pacelle
“My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.” JP Goodwin, employed at the Humane Society of the US
“Humane care (of animals) is simply sentimental, sympathetic patronage.” Dr. Michael W. Fox, Humane Society of the US
Not exactly the organization most people would like to see getting involved in any aspect of the equine industry, :no:
[QUOTE=Dressage Art;4652362]
Again, thank you for posting. The “The Humane Society of the United States” has a strong voice and I’m glad that it’s voicing their opinion on Watermill Scandic’s behalf!
It’s hopeful that so many respectful organizations voicing their concern about questionable training process of rollkur.[/QUOTE]
The HSUS a “respectful organization”.
Excuse me, that is one of the more laughable statements I have heard in long time.:lol:
Just because they seem to be on your side now, remember, when your rights to use horses are lost, that at one time, you helped them get there.:no:
[QUOTE=Bluey;4652429]
I do believe and see clearly who is talking knowing what it feels to ride the more advanced horses and who is still just winging it on what they read and hear, but don’t really have the educated feel and eye, or the hands on technical expertise and experience on many horses to really understand[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bluey;4652429]Sorry about sounding pompous, I was trying very hard to be polite, since what I had to say was not that PC.
I was not talking as much about those watching dressage in venues as I hear they have in Europe, with a fairly educated audience, more here, where, really, not very PC, rather pompous, I know, I don’t think many loud protesters seem to know that much.;)[/QUOTE]I clinic with a much respected world class Master and for the last couple of years I would come here and I would see somebody asking questions that I just heard him answer and we rode thru with great success. With out mentioning his name, I would write his advice word for word: “I was taught such and such”… some would get it, but many times some people would say “oh, you don’t know what you are talking about” or something like that…
My point it that dressage is in the eye of the beholder. Some people can write quite well, some people can’t. Some people ride quite well, but can’t train at all. Some people are blessed training low level dressage; some others are good at higher levels. Everybody is given a different talent. Don’t try to judge training skills of people by bb posts
Nobody can know everything! Some people are good at loving their horses = and I respect them only for that. That is their talent and that is what they are good at. And they also deserve to have their voice heard.
logic that is apparently lost on David O’Connor.
[QUOTE=Ellie K;4652475]
logic that is apparently lost on David O’Connor.[/QUOTE]
He is involved with Pat Parelli, that the HSUS just named their “Humane Horseman” of the year.
There is your connection.
The HSUS is trying to appear very sweet, with much PR to clean their animal rights image, but they are still the same, run by the same people and using very little of the millions to help animals, most of it for their propaganda, salaries and lobbying for more power.
They are one of the largest non-profit today, with a budget greater than small nations.
Don’t know why they are getting involved in this RK controversy, but someone sure does, I am sure and it is not to make dressage better.
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