Don Rafe,
May I join you and Caddy. Purely platonic and we can even go Dutch on the cheque!
My extreme pleasure.If a little is good,more is better!No?
[QUOTE=Don Raphaelo Rollkurista;4648357]
My extreme pleasure.If a little is good,more is better!No?[/QUOTE]
Theo? Is that you?
Theo? Is that you?
Don’t think so.
DRR, could you explain why I percieve that Totilas is lighter and more balanced in the 1st video versus the 2nd? I’m not sure, but I think the first tape was in 2007. In the 2009 tape I thought I saw that Totilas neck was thicker (quite a bit thicker) and his walk almost looks lateral. The neck looks so much heavier and the hindquarters do not look as muscled in comparison (to the neck).
Edward Gal met Totilas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vImhQN69d9w&feature=related
Edward Gal & Moorlands Totilas Kür 90.750% European Championship 2009 UK Windsor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_FDK04vXaI
I respect your perception.I percieve the horse as signifigantly more physically powerful.A development of the ecellent LDR training and its full body benefits but in no way in the close ups or otherwise heavy in any way.This unique animal so wants to extend himself physically for his rider.More than I have ever seen in a non Iberian horse,and yet will go from ultimate collection to free walk so perfectly.Is he not relaxed?
Don Raphaelo Rollkurista
I actually think he DOES look relaxed, but not completely in the total “classical” manner (spine parallel to the track of the movement in a PERFECT manner). His head is cocked to the side and I find that one fault bothers me at this level with this high a caliber of rider and horse. I feel that if the rider is going to ask so much of this horse then the long term soundness will be jeopardized with this particular fault. It is not good for the spine over time, especially the neck.
The other issues I have I do not believe would be detrimental to the long term soundness like the one I mentioned above. However, I do think the excessive muscling of the neck has begun to effect his abilty to move freely at the walk and the probably the other non-collected gaits.
I was taught that too much collection will eventually create early unsoundness over time.
I respectfully disagree.
Perhaps you could explain why (you disagree)?
You don’t see any problem with the head being slighlty cocked to one side and then asking the horse to work so hard? I don’t have a problem with the hard work aspect at all, only the lack of entire alignment at that level.
DRR:
can you explain why we see what we see in this video? and how it fits into the description you have given above?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9r9zqGKhE
or this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YODFSUs8_zw&feature=related
or this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo8W2fUjdM4
or this?
http://www.youtube.com/user/arno8#p/u/3/YgVewusDju0
i could go on…but you get the idea…
I do not see the head cocking you see.Nor did the best judges in the world.This is for Carol O.MBM.Please do not address me again.
DRR, In the very beginning of the test on the 2nd tape. There is a close up as Totilas comes down the center line. It is hard to see during the rest of the tape due to the distance. But in the very beginning of the test it is quite evident.
I am not being disrepectful of the judges, but I was trained to have a very critical eye.
[QUOTE=Don Raphaelo Rollkurista;4648547]
IMBM.Please do not address me again.[/QUOTE]
your kidding, right?
did you look at the vids posted?
i am honestly curious how they fit into what you have said about rollkur… or if they aren’t what you are discussing?
you seem to want to have a reasoned discussion, but when questioned you either ignore the question or insult the questioner.
not very gentlemanly.
Carol O.I saw it in a mere moment in the start as you have said.The rest of the ride I concur with the jury hired to officiate an event of this status.i believe that between his God given gifts and his training Totilas is the best dressage horse that has ever lived.That covers much ground.As a classicist I will not cut hairs over nuance when so much more goodness is prevelent.MBM.I have ask you nicely.
don Raphaelo Rollkurista
Forgive my spelling.I have a weakness for wine.Please forgive me.
just for clarities sake - this is what DRR said:
[QUOTE=Don Raphaelo Rollkurista;4644317]
I am Don Raphaelo Rollkurista and I do like to gently,carefully,and gradually over time,relax my horses jaw and neck until I can ride him in any number of REASONABLE postures.It is really about lowering the horses neck while retaining the same approx. degree of flexion that horse would go in at the vertical at its current level of training.I.E. Much more flexion in the G.P. horse than a horse working at A or L.I repeat.It is about relaxing the horses into lower stretched positions or postures if you will.Not PULLING them down and in!If a horse in G.P. frame is ask to hold that frame and lower his neck to somewhere close to a down and forward angle it will appear as though he was pulled there.It is about a horse that is relaxed enough to really lower his neck while "maintaining the frame angle he had when he was up.So.To stay on topic and not be removed.I do ride what you call rollkur but I do not like that word.I prefer LDR.<snip> Anyone who deepens a horse,especially if it is to the degree of hyperflexion by pulling it in is riding badly![/QUOTE]
see, the problem is that what you have written is what we have been told for years… unfortunately it isnt what is shown in the videos and what people see IRL. if what was happening was really gentle and easy as you say - folks wouldn’t be so upset.
however, even you agree that pulling and force is bad riding… and yet - look at the videos i posted. do you not agree that is bad riding as you describe it?
look, i am not a naive person… i know that training is hard etc. but it shouldn’t be brutal. even you agree with that.
i think if you really read my posts you would see that i have a fairly “moderate” position about rollkur (eta, moderate for an anti, that is… ). i dont agree it is abuse, altho i do agree that is shouldn’t be part of dressage…
My last message was to Baroque Pony.The wine again.I am sorry.MBM.Was I not clear?Please leave me be.I might enjoy the exchanges here with the other participants but I cannot allow myself to have any relationship with those so willing to commit character assasination of others who are truly unknown and harmless to them!
Don Raphaelo Rolkurista
/takes another sip of wine and watches the troll wriggle.
think we’re gonna need an xtra large popcorn to go with our drinks for this one, eh?
Oh my!It does!I will try another time!
[QUOTE=Don Raphaelo Rollkurista;4648580]
My last message was to Baroque Pony.The wine again.I am sorry.MBM.Was I not clear?Please leave me be.I might enjoy the exchanges here with the other participants but I cannot allow myself to have any relationship with those so willing to commit character assasination of others who are truly unknown and harmless to them!
Don Raphaelo Rolkurista[/QUOTE]
eta:
look, i haven not character assassinated anyone - unless you feel that by posting videos that = character assassination?
in any case, clearly you are not able to answer the questions posed to you. and that is fine. but just realize that people have eyes - they can see. and no matter how many people are “sent” here to do rollkur PR and spin - it wont, and cant, take away what we see.
ok, i am off to bed. enjoy your wine.
