[QUOTE=miss_critic;3252341]
Yeah, Dutrow is all those things. I am not a Dutrow fan, but it is mildly amusing. It makes the news all that more fun to read. And it appears the other trainers are taking it all in stride as well. The Bid analogy is perfect.[/QUOTE]
Yes but Big Brown is no Spectacular Bid. Not even close.
Anyone remember the self-alienating, bravado-filled trainer Bud Delp? Before the Florida Derby, he said something like Spectacular Bid was “the best horse ever to look through a bridle,” then continued trash-talking the Bid’s competition through the triple crown races. By Belmont time, plenty of fans were rooting against the Bid simply because his trainer had acted like an a&&. Sounds awfully familiar :winkgrin:
Sorry Beezer, you already mentioned Delp and I don’t mean to be redundant, but there it is.
Big Brown is not Spectacular Bid, but both trainers started trash-talking pre-Florida Derby, and ended up alientating fans as a result.
[QUOTE=Chiniko;3252000]
Just keep hoping his tests come back clean[/QUOTE]
You have touched on what I think is part of the key to Dutrow’s almost giddy confidence. He does know how darn good BB is…because he hasn’t had to do a thing to get him this good - unlike almost every other horse he touches. (totally assuming… don’t know from personal knowledge but know the industry well and his issues).
Of course he got his Winstrol… and they have had to watch his feet but I am sure he is probably clean other than that ( would have to be) and that even amazes his trainer.
My DH says every day that should be gelding him anyway with his bad feet and all…he is actually right. Even if he goes on to win the TC, the Travers and beat Curlin in the BC, he will probably never reproduce himself… he will produce a bunch of other horses with crap for feet… just what the TB industry needs… (NOT).
I am cheering for him…and he will probably win… because he has about the least “warm and fuzzy” connections you could ever imagine. Every horse that has won two legs of the TC over the last 10 years was a better story…
I do like Pompa… will have to focus on him!
J
Richard has always been like this…nothing really new here…His father (who was highly succesful was the complete opposite)… here is a link to Richard Jr’s profile…just for those that think he came out of “nowhere”…LOL.
Here’s something I am really, really, really trying to get my head around.
Why do so many people hate this horse? 
So far, all he’s done is beat everything thrown at him, and done it with apparent ease. He’s beaten full fields pretty much every time he’s run and done it well within himself. He’s gotten top Beyer figures, he can win from the lead or off the pace, he’s won on turf and dirt. He beat far more horses in the Derby and Preakness than Secretariat, Affirmed, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew … I could go on, but you get the picture.
I am not saying he is in those leagues; we don’t know that … yet. And, yes, the Belmont is his to lose.
But what else is the horse supposed to have done up to this point that he hasn’t? Run more at 2? Had more starts, period? Lost? Have had the forethought to be born into what gets annointed as a “strong” crop, rather than an average or poor one? Have the world’s best feet so that he could run barefoot or in sneakers or in muck boots or whatever? Truly, I just don’t get the hate for this horse.
Is it his connections? That’s not Brown’s fault, any more than it’s Curlin’s to be part-owned by convicted felons sitting in jail and part-owned by a guy who’s hated by most of the TB world. A lot of people hated on Bernardini because of his ownership … and that was his fault, how? Is it Dutrow’s history? Why is his worse than hundreds of others involved in racing? The sad truth is that the racing world – crap, the world in general – is filled with people of questionable backgrounds and morals.
For the life of me, I cannot understand how any of this is the horse’s fault and why he deserves the kind of piling done to him. :no:
If I had the honor of being connected to a horse who’d won two-thirds of the Triple Crown with such incredible ease, no one would be able to shut me up, either.
I don’t hate the horse.
I hate his name, and I hate the attitude of his connections.
To me, that is sufficient reason to root against him for the Belmont. To you it obviously would not be. But that doesn’t mean I hate the horse.
I don’t think anyone really hates the horse. He’s a good horse. BUT his times in both the Derby and the Preakness were not sensational, though he was dominant.
I think that The difference between being on the Curlin bandwagon and the Big Brown bandwagon as far as shady connections are concerned is that the BB connections can’t shut the heck up. There is one stupid statement coming out of the camp after another. Curlin has done the talking for his connections. And he’s been dominant over older even as a three year old and dominant in the world in his early 4 year old year. Big Brown will likely not get to meet King Curlin or run against older horses and prove himself against the best horses we, NA and the world, can provide. He’s going to continue to beat up on a mediocre bunch of three year olds in the TC and join an elite group, and be hearlded as a champion and he will be led by Dutrow’s continuous spewing of overly cocky verbage.
Beezer, I think we want Triple Crown winners to be great stories all the way back to the barn. Penny Chenery was class, and so was her horse. Seattle Slew’s connections were kind of fun, since they seemed to have fallen down a rabbit hole into Wonderland. But they fired their trainer after the TC was over and made some stupid decisions that most people have forgotten. Affirmed and Alydar didn’t need any backstory–their rivalry was enough to carry the series.
I wouldn’t doubt that there were sighs of relief when the Bid didn’t win, just because nobody wanted to have to think about Bud Delp in the same breath as Triple Crown trainer. I’ve felt the same way about the QH trainers who’ve come over; I don’t like the way they treat horses and am glad neither/none of them has been able to get all three.
Have you ever wondered how much UPS is now paying IEAH? The TC ought to be above sordid commercialism. What is it going to be worth to UPS in free advertising if he wins? I, for one, don’t want the Triple Crown winner to be a walking billboard for a Fortune 500 corporation. It’s just not right, and it sullies the grandeur of the achievement.
After all this, I’ve thought of the single word to describe everything that surrounds BB–crass. That word should never be spoken in the same breath with the name of a TC winner.
But “Crass” may be a good reflection of the nature of modern day American racing.
I might be able to overlook his arrogance but when he starts talking about how trainers in the past who failed to win the Belmont screwed the pooch, I mean, c’mon!
I have nothing against this horse other than he must have horrendously bad feet to have so many problems with abscesses and quarter cracks.
I have been watching horse racing for over 4 decades now and I have never wanted a horse/trainer combination to lose before this. I have been less than enthusiastic with some ( Seattle Slew, Funnycide, Smarty Jones) but I never wished they would drop off the face of the earth like I do with Dutrow.
I wish Big Brown no harm, I just want him to get beat.
The only thing classy in Dutrow’s barn is this horse
And Kip Deville
[QUOTE=Chiniko;3252883]
And Kip Deville[/QUOTE]
Oh yea…him…LOL
[QUOTE=vineyridge;3252690]
The TC ought to be above sordid commercialism. What is it going to be worth to UPS in free advertising if he wins? I, for one, don’t want the Triple Crown winner to be a walking billboard for a Fortune 500 corporation. It’s just not right, and it sullies the grandeur of the achievement.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know, after the KY Derby became … ‘The Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands’ (Yum! Brands - now there’s class and dignity if I’ve ever heard it. At least it’s not ‘The Kentucky Derby presented by KFC,’ I guess), is it really any surprise?
It would be nice if every big winner could have a nice story attached to it, but c’est la vie.
[QUOTE=JER;3252371]
Yes but Big Brown is no Spectacular Bid. Not even close.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I couldn’t agree more. Not yet anyway-as a 3 yr old. No KD/Prkns winner will EVER touch The Bid as a 4 yr. Dare I say EVER?
I didn’t know people were rooting against Spectacular Bid. Really? I guess I need to read a book!
You know, all of us watching BB from TV or as fans have all these theories, like the poor quality this year, etc etc. But I note all the trainers that are talking about how special BB is. Like didn’t Baffert say he thinks he is the best he’s seen-or something of that nature? That is saying quite a bit.
Big Brown’s breeders are a class act. You could look their direction for at least a connection to good story.
I like the horse. I hope he’s as good as his billing. And actually of the possible TC contenders of the last few years he actually really looks the part. A big, good looking, strong, ground covering machine.
Smarty didn’t have that look - he was cute. Funny Cide didn’t have that look- he was rangy. Afleet Alex, although had every ounce of guts and heart, was more scrappy - more like a shortstop than a long ball hitter. Real Quiet fell in the rangy category, Charismatic was probably the closest to the “big horse” look of the group.
Does anyone know of any TC specials on TV? As I recall the last few times a TC was up for grabs there were several specials on ESPN and the like.
J
I went through my DVR guide today actually and I didn’t see any specials. I think they show those before the KD mostly? But maybe that will change
I know he wasn’t a real TC contender by the time the Belmont rolled around but I think Point Given had it all, he just had a bad day in the Derby. IIRC, the Derby was the only time in his career that he didn’t finish 1st or 2nd.
Point Given was a super horse, after winning the Preakness and the Belmont, he won the Haskell and the Travers.
Nobody Hates BB
I haven’t heard anyone say anything negative about Big Brown. Nobody. What people say they don’t like is the way Dutrow is carrying on. Should he be excited? Absolutely? Talking s*&^? Nope. It’s crass. And not what anyone wants to see from a possible TC winner. Dutrow is so trying to take the spotlight from the horse. That’s what is bugging me more than anything. If you listen to a guy like Matz, Mott, McGuahey (not TC winning trainers, but good trainers) they are low key and praise the horses without bragging and without sounding declasse.
And I agree that Matz deserved this. He was, and still is, the perfect ambassador for the sport. Racing needs a hero - human and equine and it sure isn’t Rick Dutrow.
[QUOTE=rigoletto;3253281]
I haven’t heard anyone say anything negative about Big Brown. Nobody. QUOTE]
Nobody? Here’s somebody - He’s got bad feet (I would NOT breed a quality mare to him for that reason alone) and he hasn’t run against anything even close to his talent to prove his worth.
oops
[QUOTE=hessy35;3253288]
[QUOTE=rigoletto;3253281]I haven’t heard anyone say anything negative about Big Brown. Nobody. QUOTE]
Nobody? Here’s somebody - He’s got bad feet (I would NOT breed a quality mare to him for that reason alone) and he hasn’t run against anything even close to his talent to prove his worth.[/QUOTE]
I stand corrected - let me rephrase that. I haven’t heard anybody say anything negative about BB except that his feet suck and he’s run against fairly mediocre horses. Except Eight Belles who ran a damned good race against BB without monthly shots of Winstrol. Please forgive my lapse. I’m extremely sleep deprived. It’s the end of foaling season and we have one foal left to go of 57. But whose counting.
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