Does anyone use the perfect prep training day formula?

[PaintedHunter]

[QUOTE=MoonoverMississippi;6525412]
If you are referencing my post, it was in response to the quote in that post, which was about giving a HORSE Perfect Prep instead of the “hard” (injectable) stuff. There was nothing about human anxiety drugs being compared to coke/meth/weed/heroin in there.

As far as horses being lunged into oblivion before classes being worse for long-term health than a calming agent, how about doing neither? Why do these discussions always turn into a “its better than X”? If a horse must be a) given something to calm it in the show ring or b)be lunged into oblivion, maybe it needs a few non-showing trips to the showgrounds, more training, or (gasp) a different career?[/QUOTE]

I certainly don’t think everyone should be using calming aids/supplements or whatnot, but the point that it gives the anxious horse an unfair advantage to compete against those with the “right temperament,” let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that all the good little hunters out there are naturally so without being lunged to death first. Not all, but I’ve seen way too many. And not just referencing your post, but others saying that it’s sad that humans and horses have to be drugged to enter the ring. I don’t have to be drugged to enter the ring in particular in and of itself, but I certainly do for everyday life. It was making my already-present health issues worse. I kind of feel for people - and animals -with the same problem, that’s all.

[MoonoverMississippi]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;6525399]

Incidentally, for folks complaining about supplements like magnesium and such, how do you all feel about actual IA joint injections, which are also virtually certain to enhance performance, involve the injection of a drug right into a joint, and are not USEF banned? That’s all fine, right?[/QUOTE]

I would assume that one would be doing joint injections for the overall comfort level of the horse, not just for showing (I hope so, anyway!), and for me, that is just the same as using mag with the intent of addressing muscle issues: no problems here.

If you are doing injections just to get a few more rounds out of that horse in the showring, well…I personally find that sad, as that was not what I was taught showmanship was about.

My personal issue is (sorry) intent. Are you doing X for the all-around betterment of your animal, i.e., supplements, joint maintenance, etc., or is it just to get a few more ribbons? At the beginning of this thread, several posters stated they used it specificly to calm the animal for the showring. You may find that perfectly okay; my moral compass points otherwise.

[PaintedHunter]

I think a lot of people DO use calming supplements for the horse’s overall betterment and state of mind and mental well-being. I think that’s a point some of us were trying to make.

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=MoonoverMississippi;6525441]
I would assume that one would be doing joint injections for the overall comfort level of the horse, not just for showing (I hope so, anyway!), and for me, that is just the same as using mag with the intent of addressing muscle issues: no problems here.

If you are doing injections just to get a few more rounds out of that horse in the showring, well…I personally find that sad, as that was not what I was taught showmanship was about.

My personal issue is (sorry) intent. Are you doing X for the all-around betterment of your animal, i.e., supplements, joint maintenance, etc., or is it just to get a few more ribbons? At the beginning of this thread, several posters stated they used it specificly to calm the animal for the showring. You may find that perfectly okay; my moral compass points otherwise.[/QUOTE]

What about people who keep horses on a calming supplement year round for the purpose of calming?

I don’t know, I think there are a lot more grey areas here than most people would like to admit. I’ve personally grown to hate the h/j industry because of some of what I have witnessed, so I don’t really see myself showing again any time soon. This debate is really more academic for me, honestly, as I don’t give a crap what happens at horse shows anymore except to the extent that it impacts horse health negatively.

[MoonoverMississippi]

[QUOTE=PaintedHunter;6525443]
I think a lot of people DO use calming supplements for the horse’s overall betterment and state of mind and mental well-being. I think that’s a point some of us were trying to make.[/QUOTE]

And I have no issue with that, if it is something that you are giving whether or not that horse ever showed again. My issue is with those whose sole purpose is to alter the horse’s mood/responses/actions in order to place better.

[MoonoverMississippi]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;6525456]
What about people who keep horses on a calming supplement year round for the purpose of calming?

I don’t know, I think there are a lot more grey areas here than most people would like to admit. I’ve personally grown to hate the h/j industry because of some of what I have witnessed, so I don’t really see myself showing again any time soon. This debate is really more academic for me, honestly, as I don’t give a crap what happens at horse shows anymore except to the extent that it impacts horse health negatively.[/QUOTE]

Again, my issue is with the intent. Although, one could argue that a horse that needed year-round calming does not a good hunter maketh.

I’m not saying that could be legislated by changing the wording on rules or instituting new rules. And I agree there are alot of grey areas to it.

I guess to me it comes down to charactor/morals/belief structures/whatever. I find it sad that the new thinking seems to be “if there isn’t a rule specifically against it, it’s okay to do regardless of the lack of horsemanship and sportsmanship involved.”

I was quite excited as I was looking forward to getting back into the show ring myself now that DD is finally finished with it, but if this is the prevailing attitude I think I will look for a new discipline to try out.

[inca]

Meh. My 5-year-old is on SmartCalm pellets 365 days per year. She is SO much happier and so am I. I believe the ingredients are about the same as Perfect Prep. Nothing on the banned substance list. She still has more “get up and go” than your average horse, even on the SmartCalm. But, she no longer is so tight in her back and no longer so tense. She is just a more normal, energetic horse now.

She has the look and the movement for the hunter ring but that is probably not where she will end up. Even with the SmartCalm pellets, it will take considerable prep to get her to the show ring. We are going to try to go to a few dressage schooling shows that are much more low key and see how she handles that. I am thinking she is best suited as an eventer because she is like the energizer bunny. But, we are not ruling out the hunter ring yet - maybe she will grow up and settle down even more at some point.

[svf86]

[B]So the answer to the question or statement that blew this topic out of control is YES. YES Perfect Prep is legal at shows. Their website states that it is 100% horse show legal.
…
Here i’ve quoted their Website.

Quick acting, targeted effect
Perfect Prep EQ Extreme uses natural ingredients to provide profound, targeted relaxing effects for horses under stressful conditions. This quick acting, highly concentrated formula is provided in an easy to use, 80 cc oral paste syringe.
Perfect Prep™ Extreme comes in an 80cc paste syringe.

Meets competition requirements. See FEICleanSport, USEF or AQHA Guidelines to learn more.
…

If for some reason a horse were to test positive i’m sure there would be legal matters involved, and not just on your part, but on the makers of Perfect Prep Products and the person who decided to type that article on the legalities of using the product.

[/B]

[Misanthrope]

I hate drugging, in any form. I never used calming aids (“legal” or illegal) even when I knew I had no chance of winning without them. If I had a good ride that day, I was happy. Nobody put a gun to my head to show, and my expectations were realistic.

That said, I am far less concerned (DOES NOT mean condone) with calming lotions and potions, because the problem starts at the top.

I chuckle as I write this because there is a BNT Hunter/Eq trainer nearby who is oh so well respected and loved by everyone, and if they have 10 horses at a show, all 10 will be getting a bit of Dex at 4:00am. I’ve given up trying to report it. Somehow this BNT (and most likely many others) have managed to convince someone, somehow that 10 out of 10 horses have a legitimate medical need for this. It truly boggles the mind.

What good are the rules, discussions of wording semantics and intent when blatant and flagrant violations that require no discussion routinely go unpunished? Once the major nonsense is straightened out, then work on the details can commence.

[S_A_McKee]

[QUOTE=svf86;6528021]
[B]So the answer to the question or statement that blew this topic out of control is YES. YES Perfect Prep is legal at shows. Their website states that it is 100% horse show legal.
…
Here i’ve quoted their Website.

Quick acting, targeted effect
Perfect Prep EQ Extreme uses natural ingredients to provide profound, targeted relaxing effects for horses under stressful conditions. This quick acting, highly concentrated formula is provided in an easy to use, 80 cc oral paste syringe.
Perfect Prep™ Extreme comes in an 80cc paste syringe.

Meets competition requirements. See FEICleanSport, USEF or AQHA Guidelines to learn more.
…

If for some reason a horse were to test positive i’m sure there would be legal matters involved, and not just on your part, but on the makers of Perfect Prep Products and the person who decided to type that article on the legalities of using the product.

[/B][/QUOTE]

USEF drug rules remind exhibitors to not base decisions on what vendors say and to always check with USEF.
Perfect Prep has been around for a long, long time and there has never been a case where the main ingredient, mag, caused a positive drug or med test.

[Horseymama]

@svf86;6528021

[B]
Here i’ve quoted their Website.

[/B]

Well, it their website says it, it must be true! :no: Especially since you put it in bold!

[svf86]

[QUOTE=Horseymama;6529380]
Well, it their website says it, it must be true! :no: Especially since you put it in bold![/QUOTE]

As I also stated that if they state it is legal, you use it, get banned from USEF among many other consequences I am pretty sure you can take that up with the company and it would most likely result in legal matters.

If anyone is so concerned why don’t you call the USEF office yourself rather than sit here and argue online?

[svf86]

Also there have been a number of horses who have been tested and did not come back “illegal” for lack of better words. I know a horse this week who was tested a few days ago, rider uses perfect prep on a very regular basis at horse show.

[AirForceWife]

I’m pretty certain if it was an issue with USEF, some of the top riders listed on the company’s website would be having issues…

[svf86]

[QUOTE=AirForceWife;6529935]
I’m pretty certain if it was an issue with USEF, some of the top riders listed on the company’s website would be having issues…[/QUOTE]

I second this

[Spartacus]

Wow. Just wow. I can’t believe you are getting so het up over Perfect Prep. I don’t even use it (I actually use their GastroEase product for my horse, which is FANTASTIC), but JHC, settle down a little.

The number of horror-show tactics I’ve seen would straighten your hair. THe number I’ve heard about from friends would curl it back up. Let’s discuss longing for hours, stringing horses up by the neck for hours, bleeding them til they’re anemic but nicely calm, giving fluphenazine as a matter of course, jumping on huge ace doses—and that would be schooling at home, not even at the show–a daily squirt of Sedavet in the mouth just prior to riding, robaxin in the daily bucket. Please. That would just be for the hunters. My favorite, though, is blowing pot smoke into the nostrils. A little for him, a little for me, and then we go out and win the nice tri-color.

To jazz them back up when it’s late in the season and everyone is tired? Don’t even get me started.

L-tryptophan is found in many things—among them, turkey. Which is why you go into a food coma at Thanksgiving. Magnesium is only effective as a sedative for those who are deficient in it—which can be quite common, and which manifests as nervousness, high-strungedness, easily fatiqued muscles, tying up, etc. Horses cannot store magnesium, so if it’s not showing up in their hay or their pellets, they need to get supplementation somehow.

[HJalter123]

You’re kidding, right? Dobbin smoking up along with the owner??

[Spartacus]

Nope, not a joke! That was actually for a particularly fractious jumper, and it worked so well they tried it on the hunter. Went champion.

[findeight]

Boy, the California barn area sounds like circa 1970 there…except I was showing then and, despite a tell tale odor in the evenings, never saw anybody tooting with their horse right before a class. Line of coke, yeah, actually saw that once (Ayrab show)…so did the barn security detail consisting of off duty state cops;). Oops. That was one memorable perp walk too:lol:.

[Purepony]

Never used Perfect Prep but it’s main ingredients are vitamins and minerals so it’s doubtful they would ‘test’. Mag orally would have to be given in astronomical doses to have a calming effect ( which is why so many trainers inject it). Thiamine is B-1 is called natures tranquilizer… but as a water soluble vitamin, the body excretes what it doesn’t use. L-tryptophan, as mentioned earlier, is found in many foods naturally, like turkey and may have a mildly sedating effect…but these are all naturally occurring substances which will not impede a horses performance. They enhances the ability to focus.That’s why USEF hasn’t banned them.
By the same token, we had a pony that always did well at Saratoga. The trees in the ring, the cook tent, the line of port-a-johns at the far end…all worked to keep her hyper-focused and on course. She was a star! Everywhere else she was a brat. Should we not have shown her there because we knew that that venue would enhance her performance? Come on guys. Let’s save our wrath for those who drug with intent…who poke holes in their animals to alter them chemically with actual forbidden drugs. If USEF wants to ban specific products, then they should be listed.
Maybe we should be worried about the rider who had a turkey sandwich for dinner to help him sleep the night before a competition? His being so well rested might give him an advantage you know. Focus and all that. Can the tempest in a teapot about Perfect Prep. Works well for some, not so well for others. And don’t call it an aid or we’ll soon be banning spurs and crops/bats…or aren’t they used to improve a horses performance?