Does anyone want to look at my horse's feet again?

[sportyspicepony]

Hiiiiii! I have some more feet pics for anyone who wants to review them…

My horse has been just like ~not quite right~ for a little while, I’m still kind of unsure about my farrier, and just looking to either get reassurance that it’s probably not coming from her feet or get justification that I should be obsessing over her feet as much as I am.

I am working with a vet, saddle fitter, etc., have had some diagnostics and stuff done already but mostly just looking to get advice / insights about her feet and how they look rn. These pictures are from 6/26, she had them done on 6/23. She is a 12 yo quarter horse so not the best natural feet in the world, but also not the worst!

She is in hoof pads up front per the vet’s advice after looking at x-rays which I’ve posted on another thread previously. My farrier had encouraged me to pull her shoes for the winter which I feel stupid for doing now because it definitely made her footsore and now that she’s back in front shoes and pads, she definitely seems more comfortable overall. However she’s been kind of tender-footed after her last two trim jobs which gives me pause, but I know she’s also had a lot of hoof growth this summer being on grass and is on a six week schedule so is getting a lot trimmed off each time which apparently can make them sore??? And she has a lot of SI / lumbar area soreness so I’m mainly now worried about the hind feet being f’ed up in some way that is the root cause of all this.

Anyway please take a look and let me know your thoughts, I tried to take pics according to the hoof picture diagram and included a full body shot as well. Please be nice, I know I have a lot of work to do on her topline which is why I’m trying to address this!!

Right Front

Right Hind

Left Front

Left Hind

Full Body

[candyappy]

I am no hoof expert by any means. I just know what I like and to me her feet look uneven like the shod hooves flare on the inside along with the left hind and the right hind just looks strange to me.

She looks to be standing comfortably but does she toe out on the back?

She appears to have decent heels and her toes are fairly short ( on the bright side).

If I am way off on my whole post just disregard it all

[sportyspicepony]

YES! I think her back feet always look super uneven, even right after a trim! Someone on my last foot post said it had something to do with the farrier not getting all the way underneath her to do an even trim job, resulting in some flaring. I wonder if it’s enough to throw her off / cause discomfort!!

She definitely toes out in front, kinda not sure on the back…

[ThreeWishes]

Pictures can be deceiving but my gut says too much heel visible in the fronts especially with the turned down tubules and significant flaring medial laterally especially in the backs. She’s cute as a button. Saddle fit must be hard. She’s rather butt high and taller stifle to elbow with a bit of a dip behind the wither.

[ThreeWishes]

And seriously good on you OP for searching and asking. She looks very well taken care of and loved.

[sportyspicepony]

Aw thank you someone else has told me she has too much heel too so that’s definitely not the first time I’ve heard that… I guess I’m not sure like, what problems that causes? I feel like I’m always hearing about and reading about underrun heels, not heels that are too prominent lol. / I wonder if that phenomenon is an overcorrection of my farrier bc so many horses have the opposite problem?

And she’s definitely sensi to saddle fit but my saddle fitter seems to think that’s not the cause of our current issues! Maybe I’ll have to start a separate thread about that

[ThreeWishes]

It’s a lot of pressure on the back of her foot and the capsule can perhaps take the height for a while but eventually it will follow the path of the curved tubules. And crush and under run. Ask me how I know!

[ThreeWishes]

And you can certainly work around her build with a good saddle fitter. Glad you have one! That can be a whole other pickle for lots of owners.

[Amym600]

I trim and shoe my own horses, take it as you will but in my opinion I would get a new farrier. It looks like a very unbalanced trim and shoe job. Parts are uneven. I don’t understand why it looks like chunks are taken out and nothing is filed smooth? And one heel is prominent and the other is not. My two cents are to find someone new.

[lenapesadie]

How long has this farrier been working this horse? While I see some flares, if farrier has only been trimming her for a few months that might not be on the current farrier.

Her front heels do look uh odd, but I’m not on the up and up as far as trimming to shoes.

FWIW, my horses are on a 4 wk trim cycle and my young gelding still has significant hoof to be nipped off and he’s never taken a lame step post trim.

[SharonA1]

Another vote for way too high heels, and several of her feet, as others have said, seem to be badly balanced left to right. I also think that is one weird bevel, on the left hind dorsal view, but it might just be the angle. And, total ignorance here – but if she has shoes on, does she need her front feet beveled? My understanding is that the rocker or bevel on the shoe took care of breakover, in shod horses. Just in general, her feet don’t seem to be on straight, for lack of a better way to put it, though I get that her feet are a work in progress. I don’t think she should be sore after a trim. I have never had a horse be sore after a trim, even with all four barefoot.

She is a pretty girl, with a sweet face! What a lucky girl, to have such a caring and attentive owner. Good on you, OP!

[leheath]

I have spent a lot of time learning about feet, trimming, etc. I used to trim my own horses for many years. I’m not a professional, but if my horse’s feet looked like that after a recent shoeing, I’d be looking for a new farrier. Sometimes even minor imbalances can cause major soundness issues. Foot issues can definitely lead to back and SI soreness. While photos can be deceiving, both front feet look poorly balanced left to right, with too much heel (on both front feet, it looks like the coronet band is being “pushed” up in the heel area - it shouldn’t look like that). All four feet appear to have flares that aren’t being addressed. The coronary band should be parallel to the ground when viewed from the front, with and even downward slope towards the heels when viewed from the side - none of her feet seem to be very close to this. A trim should not make them sore, not matter what schedule they are on - all farriers/trimmers may occasionally take a bit too much, which can result in short term soreness (a few days), but that is considered a mistake, not something that is “normal” even in barefoot horses and certainly not in shod horses.

Based on what you’ve written, it sounds like your gut is telling you the feet (and thus the farrier) are part of the problem and I am a big believer of following your gut instincts! She is super cute and lucky to have you as her thoughtful owner!

[LilRanger]

I am the same as you, OP, not an expert. But what is going on with the back of her front hooves? They look weird. She looks like she toes out both back and front, ans maybe because of that she paddles?? but her feet definitely look odd.
I’d say if you feel like you have discussed with your farrier and this is what you get, its time for a new farrier.

She is super cute!

[sportyspicepony]

Thank you all for your very helpful and sweet responses!!!

@lenapesadie

How long has this farrier been working this horse? While I see some flares, if farrier has only been trimming her for a few months that might not be on the current farrier.

He has been working on her feet since I first bought her in November 2020… with the exception of one trim job like in January or so where his car was messed up and I got a substitute. So not a terribly long time but… I feel like it’s long enough?

@SharonA1

if she has shoes on, does she need her front feet beveled? My understanding is that the rocker or bevel on the shoe took care of breakover, in shod horses.

I do not know the answer to this question but maybe someone else does

@leheath

Foot issues can definitely lead to back and SI soreness.

Based on a lot of what I’ve been reading on here with other people’s issues and just everything I’ve been researching and learning, my gut really does say that her feet are at least partially the cause of some of her soreness. I had the vet out for a lameness exam during which we ended up x-raying her hocks and finding arthritis there so I did inject her hocks, but I really do feel like her hocks were only part of the story.

It’s scary to think about switching because the politics of farriers are sooo delicate, especially in my area where I feel like there’s just not very many, but this thread has definitely convinced me that it’s time to at least start looking.

That being said if anyone knows any great farriers in the Charleston SC area, hit me up and def open to more comments / opinions on her feet for whoever else has stuff to add!

[lenapesadie]

@sportyspicepony

So not a terribly long time but… I feel like it’s long enough?

Yup. Long enough. Time to start looking for a new provider

[sportyspicepony]

What’s so great about this situation is that when I do a quick search on Facebook groups in my area to see who people have recommended, like half the recommendations are for the farrier that I’m already using

[Ponycatraz]

Try the “Hoof Care and Rehabilitation” on FB. They have a list someplace posted but I can’t find it.

When I moved many of the farriers in the area did the “high heel” look. It took me awhile to find one that I liked the trim.

[lenapesadie]

That’s the way of it sometimes. The two most popular farriers in my area I wouldn’t let trim a donkey.

You might try looking for a good barefoot trimmer. There’s lots that can be done with hoof boots to support those front feet.

[JB]

Can you put the xrays here too?

I see evidence of negative plantar angle in the hinds, but I can’t tell if it’s coming in or growing out. The bullnosing is clear though, with straighter healthier growth at the top. But a single shot doesn’t tell us if it’s being corrected, or caused.

I see flaring in all feet - lateral/medial imbalance in general in the RF, lateral flare RH, lateral flare LF and to a lesser degree medial, lateral flare LH. In other words, the outside of all the feet are troubled, though it’s not clear whether that’s an issue with trimming the lateral bars, or the medial walls are too high. Most of the medial walls are high. I don’t know how long since the last trim, but the bars are laid over, which might be fine if it’s been 5/6 weeks, but it’s not fine if 1-3 weeks or so.

The evidence of negative plantar angle can easily explain whole-body discomfort, including her back which can make saddles uncomfortable.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

what @JB said.

I’m also curious how long this farrier has been working on the horse. There are imbalances all around and plenty going on that would cause the SI soreness you are seeing. Although the front feet look really tall like you could take a bunch from the bottom of the feet to help bring the bony column inline I suspect you have some really thin soles going on. The article below about reversing distal descent will explain what’s going on there.

Some reading for you
https://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html
https://www.hoofrehab.com/Breakover.html
https://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html
https://www.hoofrehab.com/DistalDescent.htm

Learn as much as you can, so you can be armed when interviewing new farriers/trimmers… because you need one.