What are your thoughts? Is this a positive thing? A negative thing? For dogs? For humans?
Extremely negative â and wildly inaccurate. The legislation is based on data that is pure trash, unscientifically collected and often highly biased.
People who fill out official dog bite reports, and/or provide information (including bite victims) often a) have no background in dog breeds or dog breed identification, and b) in some cases have admitted that they assign âpit bullâ, part-breed or full, to many dog bites, consistent with their own beliefs, not an understanding of dog breeds (that they donât have).
There is great concern and controversy regarding the reliability of dog bite data collection, as there is no uniform reporting procedure or best practices in place to ensure consistency and quality control of this data, say Don Clary, NCRC Director of Communications & Publications, and NCRC Associate Director of Communications, Janice Bradley.
Dog bites, inaccurate data, and breed misidentification are not single issues. They are not a dog problem or even a Pit Bull problem, but a community problem. These issues and problems are complex and intertwined. Without uniform dog bite reporting or best practices in place, we will continue to rely on inaccurate data and erroneous media reports. This is harmful to humans, dogs, and communities across the country.
Apparently the legislation misconstrues that dogs being dogs, in the hands of irresponsible owners and others with poor judgement about dogs, will be controlled by laws banning certain breeds. If one looks behind the curtain at the sources of these ideas, itâs ridiculous.
In addition, much of the legislation is targeting mixed breeds, as well as purebreds. The only way to know the breeds in a mixed breed is to DNA test.
Scientifically speaking and based on a lot of DNA data collection, mixed-breed dogs are often not the breeds that people guess that they are, based on appearance.
Iâm going to link at bottom a subreddit known as DoggyDNA, my absolute favorite internet site of all time. 
There are canine DNA analysis experts who frequently add their comments to explain the DNA results when owners post âthis canât be true !!!â Yes, if the results are from Embark (gold standard) or Wisdom Panel (2nd best test), itâs true, based on deep & broad databases of identified dog breed DNA from all over the world.
Dominance, recessiveness, and genes acting on other genes are highly complex in their effect on what dogs look like. What we guess is very often proved wrong.
(Most golden retriever mixes are black! 
Because the red color is from a recessive element of DNA on a black color gene, and the recessive element isnât found broadly outside of the breed. If the dog looks like a golden mix, it probably isnât. They call them âfake goldensâ. 
)
This goes for all of the âbully breedsâ and other breeds identified as âaggressiveâ. The expanding list of breeds being targeted by legislation, and are turning up as restrictions on landlord insurance policies and on rental contracts. None of this is going to control dog bites.
Better understanding of dog behavior and how to manage it will help control dog bites. By all dogs, any breeding. Thatâs what should be emphasized.
Most of the hundreds (thousands) of mixed-breed dogs posted on DoggyDNA have 20%-70% pit bull in them. But no one would have known without the DNA test. Their appearance and behavior do not reflect the common sterotypes of pits.
A couple of frequenters of the sub have even put together posters of posts, of photos of dogs that âlook pitâ, but donât have a drop of pit DNA. Alongside another set of dog photos that look nothing like a âpitâ, but do have 30%+ pit in their DNA. To illustrate that people canât tell by looking which dogs are pit mixes.
Pit bull DNA is, at this time, the most common breed in mixed-breed dogs in the U.S. If you own a mixed breed, there is a good chance that it has some pit DNA. Because for two or three decades now so many pits were allowed to roam while not being neutered or spayed.
There is also a high probability that a mix will have some ACD, chow and GSD. Rottweiler turns up in many tests. Right now all very prevalent among the American mixed breed dog population.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DoggyDNA/
https://www.reddit.com/r/DoggyDNA/comments/15jd2e3/sometimes_the_embark_test_results_feel_like_this/
ganked from DoggyDNA:
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My dog. Found on roadside as a pup about 6 months old (we estimate).
Breed guess before reading further! 
DNA tested with both Embark & Wisdom Panel, same results with both âŠ
Heâs jokingly referred to as Breed: âLandlord Labâ. Because he isnât obviously Rott or GSD.
GSDâs and Rotts are often on rental contractsâ list of prohibited breeds, even as a mixed breed.
Because the landlordâs insurance policy also has them on the list of prohibited breeds.
Even though at 37.7% Rott plus 5.6% GSD, he is almost half those two breeds.
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Wow, thank you for that response. I had no idea, especially about the âofficialâ people filling out the reports incorrectly.
In all my years so far I have been bitten by only one dog, and snapped at by another. Both were mixed breeds, one was a rescue. And 50-some years ago I remember that German Shepherds were the only breed not allowed in on-campus apartments where I was in grad school.
I have seen a lot of dogs here that to my fairly ignorant eye look like pit bulls or mixes but theyâve all seemed happy and playful and HIGHLY energetic.
I was also really interested to read in your post about reliable DNA tests. Nice to know there are some.
Handsome boy.
I canât see his tail clearly, nevertheless I was guessing Labrador.
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Terrible idea. Agree that people make assumptions about the breed of an aggressive dog.
Or even a dog theyâve been told doesnât do well with other dogs. Like my neighbor. They got a Collie puppy and the wife was in their front yard when I drove up and got my socially anxious doesnât do well with strange dogs sweetie out of the car. I mentioned to neighbor that she shouldnât bring her puppy over to say hello and why. The wife immediately assumed i owned a pit bull. Not a single inch of her looks anything like a pittie. Sheâs a GSP.
Iâve known some pitties that were just wonderful dogs. Also some that scared the crap out of me!
Same with Dobies. And Rottweilers. The only time Iâve ever been bitten by a dog it was a long haired dachshund and, to be fair, he was old and probably arthritic and I was a kid.
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Ganked from the subreddit, probably wrong to re-post their content off the sub, but they wonât know, right? 
Breed guesses! Guess first, see results below pic.
Yes, I did pick a few that might be harder to guess, but they are all common types of dogs that appear on the sub, and recent. I did not have to dig to find them. 
They are all from Embark or WP, so the two reputable DNA companies. (The ONLY two reputable Dog DNA companies! LOL )
Game Guess: PIT or NO PIT?
Or the other âaggressive/dangerous/bitingâ breeds âŠ
The owner says that these two short-legged dogs are frequently mistaken for litter mates, but they arenât related. They are SHORT â notice the closet doors behind them for scale.
Dog on the left (reclining):
Dog on the right (standing):
There was a discussion in the thread as to whether one or both of these dogs has inherited short-legged-ness from some ancestor, or whether one or both has dwarfism. Which can also be an inherited trait from certain breed lines.
Game Guess: PIT or NO PIT?
Or the other âaggressive/dangerous/bitingâ breeds âŠ
15% Catahoula Leopard Dog
12% Chihuahua
7% German Shorthaired Pointer
6% Labrador Retriever
8% Siberian Husky
6% Chow
7% Great Pyrenees (becoming frequent in mixes)
6% Pit Bull
AND 13 other detectable breeds in tiny amounts (21 in all)
This kind of mix â no breed is a high percentage, many breeds are there in low percentage â is typical of a dog that has not had a purebred in its line in generations. This is a history of mix mating with mix, generation after generation ⊠and of course that is a situation created by humans.
Whatever breed anyone wants to guess, the answer is âyesâ ⊠sort of.
Game Guess: PIT or NO PIT?
Or the other âaggressive/dangerous/bitingâ breeds âŠ
(Is that the cutest little ball of happiness ever ??? ) No good side views were provided by the owner. But no surprise that the shelter said âbeagle mixâ. They werenât too far off, depending on your point of view.
Game Guess: PIT or NO PIT?
Or the other âaggressive/dangerous/bitingâ breeds âŠ
Yep â 10% Pit.
When you see âMountain Curâ, as well as a broad scope of hound breeds that no one has heard of outside of their home range, the dog is almost certainly from the âdeep southâ.
The âfurnishingsâ â the scruffy nose and eyebrows, and overall scruffy fur â can come from any longer-haired breed mixed with other breeds. Something happens in the gene combinations that changes the hair texture and expression. The experts can explain it in the DoggyDNA subreddit.
End of exhibit!
If I spent more time hunting, I could find the reverse situation ⊠pibble-looking dogs that donât have a drop of pit in them.
Anyway â Reading that sub, I learned quickly that I am no kind of a dog breed mix guesser!
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Neither am I.
The top two (short-legged black pair) â just getting creative, Iâd have guessed maybe Basset Hound and something like a Manchester Terrier? Or more likely black&tan Dachshund x terrier? They are cute.
The darling little black white-toed pooch â no idea if I hadnât seen the list, other than Labrador x something?
The AmStaff x Pit Bull surprised me as Iâd thought they were the same breed, just given different names by the AKC and UKC. Shows how much I (donât!) know.
The wire-hired girl â really cool to learn that different coat types can, when mixed, become a wirehaired individual. I was all set to guess Irish Terrier mix.
They are all beautiful, happy-looking dogs.
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I want to give out awards to the dogs when nobody in the sub guesses right on the first try! There have been only a few of those, many of those posting on the sub really know their mixes. OR they just throw pit in the list for every dog they guess, and are likely to be right on that, at least.
So, if one of the dogs in my above post bites someone who calls the authorities on the dog â how will that dogâs breeding be described to whoever logs the incident? Some people just guess something â the last dog, Iâd probably say âschnauzer mixâ (completely inaccurate, as it turns out). Other people say âmust be pit mixâ knowing that pit isnât always obvious even when it is there, and thatâs what they write down. The 6% pit and the 40% pit are all âpit mixâ in many of those reports.
Dogs donât bite because they are 6% pit. Or 40% pit. They bite because they are dogs, and some confluence of circumstances brought that out. Itâs like classing a horse that spooks as mentally unreliable. In both situations, this is a natural instinctive behavior that we train to minimize/suppress, which fortunately is very do-able if itâs done properly and early.
As many animal behaviorists sometimes say, these are not problem animals, they are animals with a people-problem.
If dog-biting is a growing problem in our society generally, we need to address the people end of it, imo. That probably wouldnât be terribly hard if the message was framed as it needs to be, depending on the audience. People can change. Although it takes time, of course.
I suspect that dog-biting is roughly what it has always been. What I suspect has changed is that people are more likely to report, and then escalate, and authorities have become sensitized to it. Iâm sorry to say that there are groups that have encouraged this hyper-sensitivity to the wrong end of the issue. That is, the breeds, rather than the owners & others who approach dogs.
One thing that doesnât help at all with a helpful message: Apparently the Bidens arenât great about managing their dogs, re biting. They seem to have GSD mixes, or related shepherd mixes. I saw an article recently that all of the Biden dogs (two or three) have bitten Secret Service agents and that this has become an ongoing problem. Itâs being documented and escalated by the Secret Service (thatâs how it became an article). I wonder if this was also an issue when Biden was VP.
Since Pres. Biden has been in the WH, one of the Bidenâs older dogs bit an agent, and has since passed away of age. The Bidens got another new younger dog and now that one is biting, too. As is a third dog (I think itâs three). The common element seems to be the Bidens themselves. Just imo.
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Three GSDs- Champ, Major, and Commander. Champ died early on in the WH at 12 (no incidents). Major is a GSD from a shelter who was 3 or 4 when he entered the WH. Commander is a GSD acquired as a puppy after Champâs death. The latter two had the biting incidents.
I cannot imagine a more challenging life situation for a GSD than living in the WH with the president, especially not for one coming out of a shelter. That is not a normal life energy to deal with. We are talking about a high prey drive working breed. Historically, other GSDs and high prey drive breeds have also had biting incidents in the WH.
So unless you have insider info on how these dogs are handled, I donât think you can say the common element is the Bidens. The common element is a breed of dog who isnât cut out to be a pet in an extreme situation like the WH.
(Not a GSD bashing post, I love them too.)
Shifting gearsâ on the subject of this thead, I vote a resounding HELL NO to breed-based legislation. Donât let my comments about the WH dogs believe I think otherwise.
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Iâm going to challenge that, because the point Iâm making is that the humans are more responsible than are the dogs. The dogs canât fix these situations. The humans can.
In comparison, the Obamas promised their girls a dog while they were in the White House. There was information shared about the careful research and selection of a breed and an individual dog that was most likely to fit well in the White House environment, and with their family needs. I believe that one of the girls has an allergy, not sure about that. (At the time they were girls, now, of course they are young women.)
The dog was selected and then underwent a thorough training, and then an introduction to the White House. I remember a very cute television news story where President Obama was running with the dog on an leash inside the White House. The family was learning about the dog, while the dog was learning about the family.
What a great model for choosing and onboarding a dog! Into any household.
I have no idea how the Bidens are choosing, handling and managing their dogs. I believe there was a mention that some training was/is going on.
But the point of the article was that the Secret Service is concerned about the safety of its agents. And that the situation did not seem to be improving.
Iâm not holding the dogs responsible for that.
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Actually one of the Obamaâs dogs, Sunny, bit a family friend in the face and she needed stitches.
As far as biting, anything with teeth can bite. I donât think we should legislate based on breed, I think we should legislate based on behavior. I have no issues with a law to put down dogs that have a serious bite history. Send 3 people to the hospital? Yeah, itâs most likely due to poor socialization or management, but do we need to let it continue biting?
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I have mixed feelings on this.
Itâs is an unfortunate fact that some breeds seem to attract the worst owners. Itâs those same breeds that have tremendous capacity to do BIG damage should they end up aggressive and unmanaged.
I donât think breed legislation will work, as much as gun legislation in its current iteration works. But you canât deny genetics, and some dogs are more prone to be aggressive/unstable.
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Iâm not âholding the dogs responsible.â Everything doesnât have to be black and white like that, with one responsible party and one innocent party.
I agree the humans need to chose pets appropriate for their situation. But Iâm also willing to recognize and forgive humans for making mistakes because we donât have a crystal ball to know how things will work out.
It seems they had a good experience with their first GSD, Champ, who was acquired when he was VP (please correct me if that is not true). I think itâs human nature to believe it worked out once, so it work out again. And to also be willing to try again with a puppy of the same breed who didnât have an upbringing in a shelter.
And as pointed out, other dogs have had biting incidents in the WH. I think every single presidentâs dog in the past 20 years has bit someone- Obamaâs Portuguese Water Dog, GW Bushâs Scottie. Iâm not sure Clintonâs lab bit anyone, but I remember hearing he started terrorizing the cat he was raised with in the WH. The WH is not a normal place for animals to live.
I know this isnât practical, but I think it would be great to have classified licenses to own dogs. Like we require a different license to drive a car vs a transport truck. You want a breed of dog that requires more structure, more exercise, etc, you get a higher class of license than youâd need for a super chill dog. As a lifelong dog owner, I love my beagles, golden retrievers, etc. because they just want to hang out and have fun. I know I lack the expertise and the alpha mentality required to own a more assertive breed. Iâm sure theyâre lovely dogs, but I would not be a good leader for them.
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Thatâs exactly what some owners are going for. Remember Michael Vickâs dog fighting ring was not that long ago, and Iâll bet there are still some people fighting dogs. And many people want certain breeds for âpersonal protectionâ and reward them for being aggressive.
Purebred dogs are bred for generations for certain traits (artificial selection.) Mixed breeds are a crap shoot.
Obviously, obviously, obviously training matters a lot. As does environment.
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Iâm not going to offer an opinion on breed-specific legislation except to note that legislators are going to try to please vocal and upset constituents if they seem to constitute a significant voting bloc. That is their job. Figuring out dog psychology and the socioeconomic problems to do with dogs really isnât their area of expertise. Moreâs the pity.
But it is important to recognize that dog DNA tests are highly inaccurate â even testing purebreds, often enough â because breeds are not genetically âpureâ and never will be. Itâs not like weâre talking interspecies hybrids here.
Also, pit bulls are rarely registered, closed-studbook individuals. The same culture that that lets their dogs breed indiscriminately is the one that produces most of the pit bulls. Pit bulls, once bred to be scary dog fighter guard dogs, are now enormously variable in type and personality. Iâve met tall skinny pitties that looked like broad-headed whippets, squatty muscle bound ones, pitties as outgoing as any golden retriever, spooky shy pitties ⊠they are no longer anything that can be identified as a public menace, although of course some are.
The same can be said of many other popular guard dog breeds like Dobermans, Rotties, and GSDs. In the AKC sections of those breeds a lot of the aggressiveness, and proper suspiciousness of strangers has been selected out, as it is nothing but a detriment in the show ring. Many folks want the appearance, but not the original temperament, which is too much dog for a large majority of pet owners. So the idea of pinpointing public menaces by breed is not very useful any more, if at some point it was (I mean, I still give Shar Peis and Chows a wide berth).
I owned a public-menace dog for 15 years. He was not of a breed on any of those lists, although he was pretty big. Two lawsuits (for snaps that connected), some other minor bites, and a lot of altercations. In a different era and in a different place he would have been not just the norm, but valued for his passionate loyalty, his protectiveness, toughness, and cow savvy. All his ancestors were cow dogs on big ranches, and he should have been one too. He was not cut out for modern life.
I made a mistake buying him although he was and always will be my heart dog.
If I could wish anything about dogs, it would be that people stopped buying breeds maladapted for the role they have to play.
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This.
Huskies seem to be a new craze, and I canât think of a breed that is less suited for what most people/families I know want in a dog. Further, they are cropping up locally on the leashes of random humans and families. This is an officially-designated semi-tropical, hot, humid climate. With warm winters, it is rarely below 40F.
Do the owners know - or care - anything about husky temperament and temperature? Or were they just taken emotionally by the slew of youtube videos of cheeky huskies verbalizing so cutely?
So in 5 or 10 years, âhuskyâ will be more widespread in mixes, and that is already beginning to happen. Another breed growing in the mix population is Great Pyrenees. So, two breeds that really donât belong in suburbia and I have no understanding of why they are there.
We are long out of the âchowâ craze and yet chow continues to feature in lower percentages many, many mixes. The Lab craze, the ACD craze, the GSD craze, (not in chronological order) ⊠all are deeply embedded in the general population of mixed-breed dogs that continue to breed indiscriminately. Somehow high-energy purpose-bred dogs capture the imagination of suburban families, where they tend to wreak havoc.
And â puppy mills that specialize in dogs that look like particular breeds but are in fact mixes â a whole other subject.
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They have been popping up in my local shelter with above average frequency.
Last summer there were several attacks by a stray husky/husky cross in the area that resulted in one child being emergently flown to the hospital.
Also, cane corsos show up a lot. And never ending pits and pit crosses, which are by far the most common.
I live in a poor area and all these dogs tend to be status symbols for people who otherwise donât have a lot. But, everyone pays the price of that, especially the dogs themselves.
For anyone thinking this would merit legislation of these breeds: the vast majority arenât registered. Legislation wouldnât stop people who want a cool, tough dog from owning them. But it would make it significantly harder to rehome them after the fact.
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With all the astonishing Malinois videos out there on the internet, I bet we are going to see more of them, too. I canât think of a worse breed for a suburban clueless family.
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