Dog Show time!

[Foxtrot_s]

I loved Wonderful Wilma the Boxer. My own Pebbles is named after the Flintstones, because after BamBam, along came Pebbles.
Our dog is very pretty, but she is not breedable - and if i was looking for a stud for her I’d have to pick a nice bony, bigger, chunkier fellow. Ours is a shade too feminine and fine boned. Her temperament is pure Boxer tho. And the non-clipped-ear Boxers do not show up well in the big ring.

In 1977 we imported a JR from the Portman Hunt. She had lots of really good JR puppies, not the oddly shaped, excitable dogs who seemed to dominate. But we agreed, we did not want to be part of the Kennel Club because we claim the ability to hunt trumped breed standards by look. (Her name was Trump, after the Reverend’s original JR.)

Coonhounds are another breed that needs the basic instincts. And Border Collies, which is why the working BC
can look different from the show, clipped BC.

Still as a premier dog show, along with Crufts, it is a tv viewing I look forward to every year. Some of the weird info from the commentators makes mw smile.

I did see a “new breed” dog - a rough coated dog with a long name, called by his initials. I liked him - what was he?

[JanM]

I loved all of the dogs last night, but really loved the doxie. There wasn’t a bad choice in that BIS ring.

However, Peter Green was right, they were all Best in Show.

[Altag]

@Rackonteur

I think it is kind of funny (at least ironic) that with the other name changes, the Rhodesian Ridgeback is still called the Rhodesian Ridgeback, even though there is no longer a country called Rhodesia and hasn’t been for a long long time. I noticed in the movie “The Jane Austen Book Club” one character called them Ridgeback Hounds; presumably the movie people were trying to be PC…

There are still Siamese cats even though there’s no longer a Siam, and no one seems to consider that strange.

Breeds are generally called whatever the parent club (national breed club) wants, just as the standard is always dictated by the parent club (except to allow for standardization of format). Hence the Australian Shepherd for a breed developed in America, along with the Miniature American Shepherd.

[S1969]

@Foxtrot's

Coonhounds are another breed that needs the basic instincts. And Border Collies, which is why the working BC can look different from the show, clipped BC.
I did see a “new breed” dog - a rough coated dog with a long name, called by his initials. I liked him - what was he?

This is the case with almost all breeds that weren’t designed solely as pets. There are a lot of breeds that have “working lines” and “show lines” - that’s why the announcers usually make a point to talk about “titles on both ends” of a dog’s name if they have them. My breed certainly has some top field dogs that would be DQd for even stepping into a show ring; and some show dogs that won’t hunt.

But just because some show dogs don’t have working/hunting titles doesn’t mean they don’t have the instinct. There are only so many hours in a day. Lots of the dogs you’ll see at a show do other things, even if they don’t have the titles.

As for the breed you mean was it [h=2]GRAND BASSET GRIFFON VENDEENS?[/h] https://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/breed-results?id=gbgv&season=2019

[Knubbsy]

@S1969

This is the case with almost all breeds that weren’t designed solely as pets. There are a lot of breeds that have “working lines” and “show lines” - that’s why the announcers usually make a point to talk about “titles on both ends” of a dog’s name if they have them. My breed certainly has some top field dogs that would be DQd for even stepping into a show ring; and some show dogs that won’t hunt.

But just because some show dogs don’t have working/hunting titles doesn’t mean they don’t have the instinct. There are only so many hours in a day. Lots of the dogs you’ll see at a show do other things, even if they don’t have the titles.

I was a little disappointed that the shelties in the breed ring didn’t have titles on the backend but was happy it wasn’t all the big name kennels that have traditionally been seen (trying to decide what lines we’re going to be looking for our next puppy, ideally parents balanced on both ends but I want better eyes than I’ve been seeing locally)

There was one dog in I think the herding group who had a really nice collection of titles, mostly intro level to a couple different sports but its clear the owners wanted to prove he could function outside the breed ring. Even had PT, I mean PT isn’t the end all be all of instinct, I lucked into my last leg for that but they risked their dog to put them on sheep at least four times.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Finally watched the second night.

Many of the dogs in group and BIS did not have working titles on the back end of their name. I am “old school” in like the phrase… a well balanced dog has a title on both ends

Terrier tails; I don’t think any are docked (could be wrong but at least most are not). The tails are useful when you need to drag one out of a den. I have two Border Terriers, natural ears and tails, one with dew claws removed and one that still has his (so won’t remove them now). The dew claws are nice and tight against his leg and fairly buried in the leg hair.

Was thrilled to see the Bouvier take Group 1. I didn’t show against the handler/breeder personally but recognize her name and kennel from owning Bouviers for many years.

My last few Bouviers did have docked tails but natural ears and I loved them.

I really liked the BIS judge and how he took the time to thank the BIS handlers for competing. I was pretty sure the Bouvier wasn’t going to go BIS (at least a landmark by taking Group 1 for the first time) (Herding has taking BIS only twice). I though he was going to go either Dachshund or Wire Hair… wasn’t expecting the Havanese.

I always giggle at the show trimmed/pulled Borders as they are always so much tidier than my boys.

Also noticed that both the group and BIS judges checked the full bite including molars on both sides of the herding dogs.

GSD just made me want to hide my eyes

[S1969]

Don’t forget that a lot of great dogs are not shown at WKC. Its expensive to enter, expensive to stay, and difficult to navigate.

Personally I consider it a pro handler’s showcase. Especially those that had top dogs out all the prior year, like the wire fox terrier.

I live 90 minutes from one of the biggest show venues in the country and rhey do agility and obedience there as well. Only a couple of people from my area went to WKC but show often. Dont assume that the lack of titled dogs at WKC is a representation ofshow dogs in any breed. It may not be.

[Foxtrot_s]

Yes, the GBGV took my eye!

And am so glad the German Shepherd was not placed - I like an animal to have form to function and move without assumed pain…to much of a horse person here, I guess.

Wish more dogs placed without cut ears - it is illegal for vets to cut them here, yet breeders just make a reciprocal arrangement with a breeder in another province and get it done anyway.

[Rackonteur]

@S1969

Don’t forget that a lot of great dogs are not shown at WKC. Its expensive to enter, expensive to stay, and difficult to navigate.

Personally I consider it a pro handler’s showcase. Especially those that had top dogs out all the prior year, like the wire fox terrier.

I live 90 minutes from one of the biggest show venues in the country and rhey do agility and obedience there as well. Only a couple of people from my area went to WKC but show often. Dont assume that the lack of titled dogs at WKC is a representation ofshow dogs in any breed. It may not be.

Your post reminded me of a question I had while watching the show. During the Terriers class the announcers mentioned a big terrier show in “Montgomery County” but failed to say which state. I know at least two states that have a Montgomery County. Did they mean NY State?

Anybody know?

The only breed I remember being called by its initials is the PBGV but it’s not new anymore.

[Rackonteur]

Do any of you know what a doxie actually is? If you have to use a nickname that takes as long to say as the breed name, at least spell it Dachsy. :no:

[Altag]

@Rackonteur

Your post reminded me of a question I had while watching the show. During the Terriers class the announcers mentioned a big terrier show in “Montgomery County” but failed to say which state. I know at least two states that have a Montgomery County. Did they mean NY State?

Anybody know?

The only breed I remember being called by its initials is the PBGV but it’s not new anymore.

Montgomery County Kennel Club is a show strictly for the Terrier breeds (highest award is Group One/Best in Show since there are no other Groups represented), so a win there is fairly prestigious for the Terriers. It’s held in eastern PA.

Now referred to as Group shows, there are a few shows for the other groups, such as Maryland Sporting Breeds Association, etc.

[S1969]

@Rackonteur

Do any of you know what a doxie actually is? If you have to use a nickname that takes as long to say as the breed name, at least spell it Dachsy. :no:

LOL well I do now.

I don’t think most Dachshund people use the spelling “Dachsy” though. I could be wrong.

[MsM]

Always enjoy watching. I was involved in show dogs for a short time quite a while ago. Actually so long ago that I no longer recognize many of the handlers any more. But some of the handlers I knew are now judges! Including Peter Green who I knew just after his first Westminster win (Binny was a fun bitch!) So strange seeing him as BIS judge :eek: But if anyone knows a really good terrier it is him.

[Brooklyn_Born]

I would love to see a Rough Collie or English Setter win Best in Show sometime. Two of my favorite breeds.

[Where_sMyWhite]

For me, the ‘big’ dog show might be Crufts in England from whence most terriers come (UK).

From looking at Crufts web page, it appears more dogs enter Crufts than Westminster (275 Border Terriers).

[Foxtrot_s]

Back to the dogs’ pacing. If the handler walks too fast, the intermediate gait would be to pace, and a faster walk by the handler will encourage the trot, while a slower walk by the handler will enable the dog to walk correctly. Tough when one wants utmost brilliance.

[tbchick84]

Question for those of you who are knowledgeable in showing. I noticed my friend’s dog appeared to almost take a few lame looking steps during his trot for the judge (or whatever it’s called in dog shows) Are dog gaits similar to horses in that, if the dog is not forward enough, the gait appears to meander a bit?

[ElisLove]

@Knubbsy

I was a little disappointed that the shelties in the breed ring didn’t have titles on the backend but was happy it wasn’t all the big name kennels that have traditionally been seen (trying to decide what lines we’re going to be looking for our next puppy, ideally parents balanced on both ends but I want better eyes than I’ve been seeing locally)

There was one dog in I think the herding group who had a really nice collection of titles, mostly intro level to a couple different sports but its clear the owners wanted to prove he could function outside the breed ring. Even had PT, I mean PT isn’t the end all be all of instinct, I lucked into my last leg for that but they risked their dog to put them on sheep at least four times.

Though not enough people put titles on both ends (it’s almost impossible to find a standard poodle breeder that shows AND does obedience and such, and if they do it’s usually things like rally novice), but a lot of show dogs are 3 years old and younger and when they are campaigned they generally spend at least a year on the road with a handler so they lose that year too to get any training or competing in sports so even people that want to title on both ends may not have titles on the back till after a dog is done showing. And some dogs simply take extra time to be ready to compete in performance stuff (either because the breed/dog is slower to mature mentally (or physically), or because the owner doesn’t want the dog just doing the bare basics but actually really engaging and capable of getting really good scores/performances)
My dog has his canadian gr champion (all with me, not campaigning). I did wait till he was close to a year old to start obedience/agility training (he was my first show dog and I had read so much to not teach them to sit, next puppy with start competition obedience training right away). He’s coming up to 3 now and he’s getting very close to being able to compete for his CD title in the way that I want him to be able to (focused heeling with an engaged dog), we’re also working on open exercises. I’m hoping to get his CD this year. He’s also close to being ready to compete in agility, but he needs more practice in new venues first as he can be a wild child in new places.
My dog’s sire didn’t get a title on the back end till he was probably 7 yrs old or so. I believe he has his Rally Excellence not sure if they plan to do anything else with him.

[S1969]

@tbchick84

Question for those of you who are knowledgeable in showing. I noticed my friend’s dog appeared to almost take a few lame looking steps during his trot for the judge (or whatever it’s called in dog shows) Are dog gaits similar to horses in that, if the dog is not forward enough, the gait appears to meander a bit?

Yes, definitely, and I also sometimes use the phrase “rein lame” to refer to dogs but it’s really lead lame. The ideal scenario is when your dog has amazing self-carriage, knows where to go, and keeps the perfect pace with the handler. But a lot of dogs don’t, and/or need guidance at least until they pick their straight line and get moving at the right speed. Handlers often have to put more pressure on the lead than “ideal” which can also make the dog look lame because it can pull their weight off of one side.

Honestly, it’s harder than it looks. You should see some of my videos. A show lead doesn’t give you anywhere near the control as sitting on a horse.

The camera angle can sometimes make the dogs look different than in real life. Especially in the group judging. When you see them on the overhead camera they usually look like they are taking a straighter line than when seen from the floor camera.

[S1969]

@ElisLove

Though not enough people put titles on both ends (it’s almost impossible to find a standard poodle breeder that shows AND does obedience and such, and if they do it’s usually things like rally novice), but a lot of show dogs are 3 years old and younger and when they are campaigned they generally spend at least a year on the road with a handler so they lose that year too to get any training or competing in sports so even people that want to title on both ends may not have titles on the back till after a dog is done showing.

Yep. And this is why a ton of great dogs are not shown a lot. Or, why you’ll see more males than females, especially in certain breeds. By the time a bitch is 2-3, has a Ch., and maybe has a lower level title in something (in my breed it’s usually a field title), if she’s great the breeders want to breed her before she’s too old (by 6 you can start experiencing breeding issues because the dog is middle aged). Then they want to get back out in the field…or sometimes will bring her back out to show, but now always. I know a really nice bitch right now that the breeder is lamenting now having bred yet but not willing to take out of field competition because she would lose a season (I think she is 5 or 6…still possible, but…time is running out).

If you are really interested in looking at breeding stock - WKC is not the place to look unless you are looking for straight up top show dogs. A regional specialty or better yet - national specialty - will bring in lots of different types of dogs, owners and breeders. One year the top dog in our breed didn’t even come to our national because he was trying to get breed points for #1 ranked sporting dog. He’s a nice dog, but no one was sorry he didn’t come. LOL. Especially the winner that year.