True enough words, handling a show dog is not for the faint of heart. I was an owner/handler with a dog that did have a slight conformation fault in being a bit short in the back compared to leg length. Her favorite gait was the pace… not what you want to see in the conformation ring. Took a fair amount of practice to learn to move her so she would trot and not pace. (FWIW, I never did consider her breeding stock, I just wanted to get a Ch on her… never happened 
).
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Thanks, Altag. 
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Thanks for the info. That’s what I thought. I’ve met his dog a few times and she’s 100% sound. But she gets on that show lead and looks like a drunken sailor. I noticed his leash is not as taught (Is that word?) as the pro handlers. The dog is only 3 years old and has been consistently beating the best dogs at local shows, so she has a good future in front of her.
I liken the jog for the dogs at the show to the soundness jog at an event. I always like to see a loose rein with the horses, but I really like to see a sort of loose lead on the dog. Which to me means they know their dog, and don’t have to strangle it to show it. The boxer for example had a loose rein.
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^^ in that vein, King had to be kept on a stricter lead - reminder to focus!
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A lot of terriers and toys are shown on a tight lead (or “strung up.”) Sometimes there is so little weight on their front legs that they barely touch the ground. It’s not possible to show bigger dogs that way, even if you wanted to, so you don’t see it. Different breeds have different customs. You’ll always see a GSD on a long lead out in front of the handler, but you rarely see a Brittany shown like that. There was one shown like that at WKC and I think it looks weird. A few top dogs in my breed were shown like that by pros, and I think it’s more to be seen, not to make them move any better. it’s for “show” not for better function. Showboating by handlers. Not to say it’s not effective. It can be. But dogs that are out every weekend know exactly where their handler wants them to go, at the right speed, etc. And the judges all know those top dogs. That’s one reason I don’t show at WKC. It doesn’t always mean that the best dog will win. Usually a top dog will win. I’m not sure there has been any real “upset” in years.
King was the #6 dog in the country last year, in all breeds. He has had a lot of ring practice, just in 2018. 27 Best in Shows, 81 Group 1sts. And a total of 41402 dogs defeated. That basically means he was at a show every Thurs-Sun all year long.
Here’s what a less trained dog looks like in the ring. LOL. This was before he was a Ch. and he did win Best of Winners despite this behavior. https://www.facebook.com/sandy.malloy.5/videos/10211280831528270/
The judge said “can you try to control him please?” LOL, um, no, I thought this was what you wanted to see.
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Thanks for that. I have seen many small dogs in the past where it does look like the front feet are almost not touching the floor. I do not like to see that. I did wonder if it was show stuff or if they really walk that way.
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Larksmom, there is a reason it’s called a dog show. It’s show and, especially, the pro handlers, know how to get the best out of the dog they’re handling. As S1969 said, at a “big” show like WKC, the judges know the dogs in front of them. They may have even judged them before. There are often tons of “tricks” the pros can employ to get the best out of their dog 
Just because WKC plays the “game”, dogs are announced by number but that’s really token. The top dogs aren’t really that anonymous.
Even at smaller shows, the judging may have some level of bias IMO. I’ve seen a judge chatting up with a pro/local handler breeder just prior to the breed entering the ring.
I was in a class that had 7 dogs entered. 6 showed up. I was first in line. Judge went over all 6 dogs and, as is normal, I eventually ended up back at the front of the line. We all are stacking our dogs and the judge is looking at me like I’m a twit (and I’m thinking ‘why’). Don’t I want him to go over my dog? Well, yeah, but you already did once. So I moved her to where the judge had been going over each dog… moved her around to the back of the line and we all stacked 'em up again.
Despite going over my dog twice, still didn’t pin
I was left wondering why/how the judge knew there were 7 dogs in the class. He’s supposed to judge what’s in front of him. The steward is supposed to “manage” getting the right dogs in the ring for the judge.
:rolleyes:
Did the judge actually tell you to set up for a second exam? Why didn’t you just tell the judge that your dog has already had the individual exam? 
I don’t know how familiar with you are with shows, but I’m guessing you’ve never judged or stewarded. But at least for those who may not be familiar with ring procedure…
If he didn’t specifically tell you to move your dog to the other location (and set up for exam), you should have stayed at the head of the line, set your dog up, and been ready for whatever the judge asked next. It’s common for a judge to ask for the whole group or individuals to gait again and to go over points on some or all of the dogs (not with another individual exam). In other words, the judge may go down the line and recheck shoulders on several dogs, head on another, and look at the front of all of them, then ask three of the dogs to go down and back again so he can watch them gaiting. Or ask the whole class to go 'round together or one at a time so he can watch side-gait. It’s also common for a judge to cut several dogs and send them to another spot in the ring, or to rearrange them into order that he’s thinking of placing them, which is always subject to revision until the book is marked/ribbons handed out.
The judge has a judge’s book that consists of only armband numbers and class lists divided/marked by sex. So the judge absolutely SHOULD know how many dogs are in a class as they must mark all absences (as well as any excusals, disqualifications, etc.).
After judging, the steward checks that their steward’s book (also armband numbers only) matches the judges’ book markings. The steward also has access to a regular, public catalog that lists each dog’s name, etc., but the judge is not allowed to view that catalog until after their judging assignment for the day/weekend is completed.
Yes, he did ask me to step up so he could examine my dog. I went through my head of either complying or telling him he’d already gone over my dog and perhaps annoying him. I knew all the other handlers in the ring as it was a local show.
I complied with the judge’s request and moved up so he could examine my dog again. I am not a professional but it wasn’t my first (or second or third) show handling my dogs as an owner handler.
As the “last” dog was going around to the end of the line, the rest of us were stacking our dogs in preparation for the judge to step back and look at the class. The judge didn’t do that. He looked at me with this ‘what are you doing’ look. I stayed where I was until he asked if I didn’t want him to go over my dog.
I know basic ring procedure. I know what I was expecting to happen and it didn’t. I really waffled in my head with doing what the judge asked or pointing out that he’d gone over my dog already. I’ve been in classes when a judge wanted to re-examine a dog for some reason. I do not think that was the case. It was the same exam he did the first time he went over her; not the often superficial exam a judge makes when they’re deciding placement within a class and they’re just looking for something to help make up their mind.
I know the judge isn’t supposed to look at the catalog. Doesn’t keep the judge from knowing certain dogs or handlers. I know the judge is supposed to know only armbands.
Was my dog that unremarkable that he didn’t recognize either her or me out of 6 dogs (7 entered)? (Yeah, I’ve shown at Specialties and I could easily see how an individual could be “forgotten” or overlooked out of 30-40-50 dogs in a class.) Wasn’t like it was a big class. Didn’t the judge register that the class was stacked and ready? Even if the steward hadn’t told the judge that one was a no show, there should have been enough other signs that only 6 dogs were in the ring to suggest the judge check how many were actually present.
Who knows what was going on in his head. I know what I was thinking and felt comfortable with the choice I made if questioned by any of the other handlers in the class. Turned out to be a non-issue that despite going over my dog twice over everyone else’s once we still didn’t pin (1-4). :rolleyes:
Judge’s make mistakes. I probably would have said, “no, I was first in line.” But I agree, it probably didn’t matter. If he liked your dog he probably would have remembered going over it.
My dog was awarded Select Bitch once. The judge just lost track and pulled 3 males and only one female. Woops.
well, how difficult is it for a judge not to know competitors? I mean do not hunter/event/dressage judges kind of know who is in front of them? Skaters go thru this too don’t they?
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Know as in recognize? Or just remember? They certainly know some of them, and usually remember or at least check their armbands because they are consecutive. If you examine #13 and then #5 is in front of you again, you’re back at the beginning.
Judges don’t usually know my face though. I’m not a pro, show only one breed, and not out every weekend. I am a nobody.
well, I am thinking of a very small event that we had long long ago when I was still competing. The judge was a local but she was a respected judge.We all knew her well, and some of the competitors probably had taken lessons from her at some time, but probably not when she was judging. (does that make any sense?) Actually, the show was about 100 miles from where we lived/kept the horses. So there were a lot of people who knew her as a judge. Take the upper level eventing. I m sure when Boyd, or Buck or Phillip ride into an arena, the judge probably knows who they are. Do they have to excuse themselves if they have had any dealings with that judge?
If dogs show almost every week end, I would think they would get to know who the judges are. Also as in the equestrian disciplines, you know who scores ‘high’, and who scores ‘low’. ( do they still do that?) and might pick your shows accordingly?
Well, to give some context. I live near a really big show venue (the Big E in Western MA). There are shows there practically every weekend but they are hosted by different kennel clubs. Each show will have different judges, who judge various breeds and a total of 150 dogs/day. During the course of a year showing at that location (maybe 6-7 weekends a year, or 12-15 shows), I might show under the same judge twice. Never more than that, because judges won’t judge the same breed in the same weekend, and maybe not in the same area for 6 months. So judges won’t know ME, even if I remember them.
A pro handler who is campaigning several dogs might show 8-10 dogs every weekend, so maybe 3-4 shows/week for 45 weeks a year. They will show under the same judge several times a year, because one day they might show a judge a Basenji one day, and the next day that judge will be assigned to judge herding dogs and they might have a Rough Collie. And the next day maybe a working breed, etc. Or the judge might be sitting ringside during group competition and see them in the sporting ring, and then judge them the next day. They will know the dogs that win the groups and Best in Shows because they watch them.
Breeder handlers who show the same breed for years are often recognized by judges; so even if they haven’t seen them in a while, they will remember them. Both of my dogs’ breeders are known by a lot of judges, but I am not. In my breed, though, it is very common for owners to handle their own dogs, so if you have a good dog, it doesn’t make a huge difference who is handling. Handling skill is often more important.
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I love this! I learn so much about dog shows every year!
Did I really think the judge “knew” me? No. (I certainly don’t recall showing under him before.)
Steward put us in catalog number order in the ring so maybe armband could have been a clue?
Maybe seeing that when the class entered there was 6 dogs (not 7). Maybe a clue?
Maybe when the judge was going over the last dog, all the handlers started setting up their dogs (including myself). Maybe a clue?
IMO, the judge should have known there were six and not seven and had a number of ‘clues’ to help in that decision. I honestly didn’t know what to do since it appears to be relatively discouraged for handers to talk to the judge in the ring. My bitch wasn’t the first I’d shown in conformation so it wasn’t my first rodeo.
Hard to pay my $$ to have a judge that didn’t appear to really know how many dogs were in the class. Did I get that my bitch was obviously unremarkable, yup. Been there, done that before and since. Judges don’t have like the dog I’m handling. I get that. But walking out of the ring with the feeling that the judge wasn’t really engaged and paying attention was not a positive experience.
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Again, judges make mistakes. They judge class after class, all day long; standing on concrete or in the sun, or in the pouring rain. It’s not really a glamorous job. So no, I don’t think most of them count the dogs as they enter the ring. They check off those present in the judges book, then start judging. As an exhibitor, you should have corrected him. Live and learn. It’s no big deal. I have a lot of my classes on video because I had my kids with me. In retrospect there were times I wondered how we could have possibly won, or worse, where I can easily see why I didn’t. And I’ve definitely seen times where the judge is practically begging an exhibitor to let them put their dog up but the handler just cannot get their sh!t together and it’s impossible for them to choose it.
As I said before - watching Westminster makes it look easy. You don’t see many novice handlers or naughty puppies…or novice handlers with novice puppies. BTDT. It’s character building stuff.
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This reminds me of a Westminster Dog Show a gazillion years ago, when in the Sporting Group, the handler didn’t see the judge point to his dog for the cut—the judge did NOT go back to that dog to make sure it was included.
Betcha the owners weren’t happy.
Some judges don’t do a great job of making things obvious. I was always taught to just assume it is you and go - they will let you know if not. Or, if no one else gets up, they might just give you the win anyway.
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