Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[Equine_Reproduction]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6566658]
Good Lord! Was she talking about breeding an unvaccinated mare with foal at side? [/QUOTE]

No…we “did” vaccinate the mare. But she’s claiming the mare had a foal afoot. The mare did NOT have a foal by her side. And as noted in my previous post, I absolutely will NOT risk exposing a foal to the active “hot” virus that you risk being expelled by the mare post breeding. NOT worth the risk. Am I absolutely, 100% clear on this? :D. I have ALWAYS made that statement. But once again, Jill is attempt to down play the concerns and trivialize it to the point of claiming I’m lying about the topic and I’m “jealous” of her. <shrug> Whatever.

[showjumpers66]

One thing that hasn’t been spoken about is that the first season Redwine stood in the US, Jill was not aware that he was EVA positive and was shipping semen to mare owners. I know this, because Jill called me in a panic after receiving his test results wanting advice on how to handle the situation. And, what Kathy/www.equine-reproduction.com has not told you all is the background of why Jill started her smear campaign against them. It is not my place to say and Kathy won’t say because she is a professional who provided a service for Jill, but it is another thing that just re-enforces everything we know about her.

[NJRider]

What is someone bought a mare from JB with or without a foal by her side then bred that mare live cover to another stallion… is there a possibility that the mare could be EVA positive then expose a stallion?

[Yowsa]

The rise and fall

You know, the more I think about this, the more I’m interested in how she rose to the levels she did. I know little of JB, I’d assume she obviously was a BN in the hunter world? Had some money, brought over some fancy stallions, and started acquiring mares? She has a fabulous website and either has sold a ton of breedings and horses (priced 10k plus) or done very good lying about it.

As someone that struggles to find the connections to legitamately sell a couple horses a year, without fraud, how did she manage to con all these people? How did she develop such a huge network, market, and become such a hot commodity? If the fraudulent behaviour was always there, it makes you wonder why it took this long. Or was she on the up-and-up for awhile and then tanked? I remember not that long ago if her name came up on these boards everyone sung her praises. What flicked the switch?

I’m curious because of the sheer volume of people affected. How did this go on and on and on for so long that the list of victims ended up so long? I would love to be able to market like she DID, and have the flock of people gravitate to me. What was the draw? You have to admit from that standpoint, she marketed well, and obviously knows about horses. It amazes me how far she was able to take it before word started getting around. I wonder what was the catalyst that changed opinion from “she’s stellar” to “watch your back” if things had been less than honest the entire time.

Anyone know more about how she ended up with the fame she had, the good reputation, and the huge client base, before it all started to sink?

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6566808]
No…we “did” vaccinate the mare. But she’s claiming the mare had a foal afoot. The mare did NOT have a foal by her side. And as noted in my previous post, I absolutely will NOT risk exposing a foal to the active “hot” virus that you risk being expelled by the mare post breeding. NOT worth the risk. Am I absolutely, 100% clear on this? :D. I have ALWAYS made that statement. But once again, Jill is attempt to down play the concerns and trivialize it to the point of claiming I’m lying about the topic and I’m “jealous” of her. <shrug> Whatever.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for weighing in. I wasn’t sure if you were the “Kathy” referred to in the PM, but I knew you wouldn’t risk breeding a mare with a nursing foal to an EVA positive stallion.

[omare]

The PM looks like there is more than one behind the scene gossiper to me.
I am sorry Equine Reproduction even has to explain any of this.

[Sheila_A]

[QUOTE=omare;6567058]
The PM looks like there is more than one behind the scene gossiper to me.
I am sorry Equine Reproduction even has to explain any of this.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing. With one piece of a message taken out of context it is a little confusing as to what is being discussed here

[3Dogs]

[QUOTE=Yowsa;6567008]
You know, the more I think about this, the more I’m interested in how she rose to the levels she did. I know little of JB, I’d assume she obviously was a BN in the hunter world? Had some money, brought over some fancy stallions, and started acquiring mares? She has a fabulous website and either has sold a ton of breedings and horses (priced 10k plus) or done very good lying about it.

As someone that struggles to find the connections to legitamately sell a couple horses a year, without fraud, how did she manage to con all these people? How did she develop such a huge network, market, and become such a hot commodity? If the fraudulent behaviour was always there, it makes you wonder why it took this long. Or was she on the up-and-up for awhile and then tanked? I remember not that long ago if her name came up on these boards everyone sung her praises. What flicked the switch?

I’m curious because of the sheer volume of people affected. How did this go on and on and on for so long that the list of victims ended up so long? I would love to be able to market like she DID, and have the flock of people gravitate to me. What was the draw? You have to admit from that standpoint, she marketed well, and obviously knows about horses. It amazes me how far she was able to take it before word started getting around. I wonder what was the catalyst that changed opinion from “she’s stellar” to “watch your back” if things had been less than honest the entire time.

Anyone know more about how she ended up with the fame she had, the good reputation, and the huge client base, before it all started to sink?[/QUOTE]

Yowza…not a BN hunter person…track hanger…TBs…I was around in Northern CA when the “Invention” of JB began. First heard from a stallion owner about JB from a stallion owner…SO said she got “stiffed” on a breeding…then the stallion purchase! Redwine bought in partnership…co-owner sued shortly after. She never lived anywhere but the wee farm now foreclosed on. But brilliant marketing…and vicious posse of friends, alters, etc. red flags waving early on but god bless the Internet and great strategy! then more stallions, more mares, and so many enablers along the way! Horse world keeps quiet…who wants trouble? Personal stories of woe only dots not connected! And no one wants to diss those with offspring they love…they didn’t know they were dealing with such a misery!

[Formosus]

Opinions (yes opinion ;)) vary about the suceptibility of the foal at foot.
My two vets had no issue with the possibility of breeding a mare with a foal onside with EVA positive semen (frozen in this case) as long as the mare was vaccinated or had the appropriate titer level.

Their opinon also alligns with what IronSpring Farm has published on their website as to the protocol for breeding to their EVA positive stallion.

They mention that the foal should be healthy (don’t expose an already debilitated foal to a potential respiratory disease-makes sense) and that is it. Vaccinated mare do not need to be isolated for any periode of time after breeding with eva+ semen if their titers have tested high ennough (immune response active I would presume?).

Iron spring farm site

Kathy is very clear that she is not willing to take that chance with her foals and she has always been clear on that from her perpective and I know because I talked to her about it way back when I was looking at breeding to Florencio.

I just wanted to point out that I’ve heard differently when seeking information from my vet and from Iron Spring Farm.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=omare;6567058]
The PM looks like there is more than one behind the scene gossiper to me.
I am sorry Equine Reproduction even has to explain any of this.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I’m just glad Kathy does take the time to get the word out; what a pain-in-the rear to have to deal with this.

[NJRider]

I think JB adheres to the George Costanza philosophy…“It’s NOT a lie, if YOU believe it…”

[Equine_Reproduction]

@Formosus;6567107

Opinions (yes opinion ;)) vary about the suceptibility of the foal at foot.

Yup. And, there are varying opinions about how much coverage a foal receives from its dam.

Kathy is very clear that she is not willing to take that chance with her foals and she has always been clear on that from her perpective and I know because I talked to her about it way back when I was looking at breeding to Florencio…

Exactly. I have always made it very, very clear that it is NOT a risk I’m willing to take. Others may be. But, I do believe it absolutely must be an informed decision and Jill Burnell’s claims that Redwine has a “mild” case of the disease, etc. is NOT providing mare owners with accurate information with which to make that determination. Smoke and mirrors. And indeed, she has advocated in the past, breeding mares without vaccinating at all :(. Repeatedly. Ad nauseam. “Teller of untruths your pants have combusted” - e.g. Jill :D!

NJ Rider, in answer to your question, mares cannot become carriers of the disease. If an unexposed mare was “exposed” to an EVA positive stallion, you would want to isolate her for the duration of that acute stage. But, after that, she is essentially inoculated for the disease and would subsequently, just need to be boosted to maintain that status. She would not be able to pass the disease on to other horses unless they were exposed to her during that period post breeding - usually it is recommended 4 weeks isolation in those circumstances.

[TrueColours]

With one piece of a message taken out of context it is a little confusing as to what is being discussed here

This message went back 2 1/2 years ago, a month or so before I bred my mare to Redwine. As I said, just came across it now when I was housecleaning my PM’s and thought “How interesting”. (and this was the entire message from Jill - it wasnt a snippet or only part of the message to me). Even back then it was all about duping the mare owners into believing it was okay AND I thought that Kathy especially would find it “interesting” and ironic, how her name was being dropped into the conversation, as in “If Kathy does it with her mare with a foal at side, it MUST be okay for everyone else to do!”

I know - I 100% KNOW without one shred of doubt, that Kathy would never have done that. We’ve had many conversations in the past on this very subject and I know how deadset she is against breeding to an EVA positive stallion with a foal at side. For all of the reasons she stated up above.

I am also glad that once again, within the context of this thread, that Kathy has had the chance to re-iterate her stand on all of this

I know that we all owe her a lot for bringing so many issues and misconceptions about EVA to the forefront and has forced certain stallions owners to be a little more honest in their handling and management of their EVA positive stallions and what they say to mare owners …

[omare]

You repeated several statements made by JB in that PM without any explaination or context.

It could easily have been taken another way.

It is a good thing ER does bother to comment to corect such things. But she should not have to do that.

[omare]

You reposted the statements made by JB in that PM without any explaination or context.

It could easily have been taken another way.

It is a good thing ER does bother to comment to corect such things. But she should not have to do that.

[daisycutter87]

obviously there was some misunderstanding; glad that things have been corrected. there’s no need to get all worked up. The PM was quoted in this thread because Jill was obviously LYING about situations involving other people through PM in order to make her sound more reputable. Unfortunately some people misunderstood what was quoted/what was said. Carry on…

[omare]

one needs to be careful quoting other people’s “misstatements”

[Kyzteke]

@Ransom's Rider;6566460

For what it’s worth - I was at an ISR/Oldenburg inspection yesterday and there was a lovely Redwine filly presented who was Reserve Champion Filly with a first-of-the-year 9 for type. The judge loved her and made interesting comments about how Redwine has produced better here in the US than in Germany because he seems to nick really well with American mares. I found it interesting, thought someone here might as well.

I find it interesting as well, since “American” WB horses are all of the same lineage as German/Dutch/Danish, etc WB horses. That’s where we got them!

There is no “American” WB; the only exception would be American TBs, which only 10-15 yrs ago the German inspectors were looking down their nose at. So what changed?

[Cloverbarley]

[QUOTE=daisycutter87;6568323]
obviously there was some misunderstanding; glad that things have been corrected. there’s no need to get all worked up. The PM was quoted in this thread because Jill was obviously LYING about situations involving other people through PM in order to make her sound more reputable. Unfortunately some people misunderstood what was quoted/what was said. Carry on…[/QUOTE]

Perhaps people become a little tetchy when Private Messages are posted?

[magicteetango]

Kyzteke, perhaps a more TB mare base? Also more Hunter types instead of Dressage or Jumper type mares?