[QUOTE=runwayz;6564490]
Most amateurs with 6 figure hunters also give you a blank look when you ask them anything about their horse except what color it is. ;)[/QUOTE]
Now, now… some of us actually do care.
Right on, Lulu!
Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook
Second that! DH and Lulu
And LaurieP will always agree to disagree on this topic of for WHAT people buy “hunter” bred FOALS for in this country for! I sit and collect what data I can …LP does a bang up job with Junior in the HB world. I attend hunter shows around the country…just saying don’t see a LOT …see some mind you…of those “BYH horses”…name change or not…showing up as top hunters years after the fact. Can blame all the contingencies you want…who bought, who trained, was there injury…but it still SEEMS a very dotted line from HB success to performance success! And yes, there may be many opinions what performance “success” means! If horse has a happy home and well loved? That is success!
[QUOTE=3Dogs;6564935]
Second that! DH and Lulu
And LaurieP will always agree to disagree on this topic of for WHAT people buy “hunter” bred FOALS for in this country for! I sit and collect what data I can …LP does a bang up job with Junior in the HB world. I attend hunter shows around the country…just saying don’t see a LOT …see some mind you…of those “BYH horses”…name change or not…showing up as top hunters years after the fact. Can blame all the contingencies you want…who bought, who trained, was there injury…but it still SEEMS a very dotted line from HB success to performance success! And yes, there may be many opinions what performance “success” means! If horse has a happy home and well loved? That is success![/QUOTE]
But that isn’t what you said, and what I was disagreeing with. You said people bought foals mostly for the HB ring. I said that is not born out by the few youngsters in the HB ring compared to the hundreds or thousands of hunter type or hunter bred foals that are sold each year. My point was that MOST people buy them, take them “home” and they never see a show ring until going under saddle, if at all.
As far as HB translating to performance, you will have to eat your words soon enough. I can wait! 
Between us, Diane Halpin, Emily Belin, Bill Rube and NBFarm (those are just the ones I know personally), just these people on this BB, you have already begun to see a concerted effort to bring these kids through the HB division and into performance.
And, Junior and I specialize n ALL ASPECTS of young horses, not just HB. We do HB, but that is just a small part of our business.
I certainly bought my HB foal, Drum Roll Please, back in 2008 with the hunter ring in mind. We are just taking him slowly but surely and he’s doing quite well. Showing him in the HB clases was just a step in the process. And, I know ALOT about him ! Oh, yeah he’s a bay!
I apologise, I was not pointing fingers at anyone. I am an ammie as well. Just making a comment of what I have observed in some situations. And quite humerous ones too.
amylmac - I hear you. We breeders who go on to develop our youngsters for performance, well, to me it’s the ultimate horsemanship and the ultimate satisfaction. Also, I’m very happy to change a career direction on any youngster when that’s indicated. I’m even willing to try cow work, if I think it’ll get the youngsters engaged in a job and concentrating. We tend to narrow our horses’ career tracks when they probably are happier, become more mature, and more relaxed with a lot of versatility. As teens in Texas, we did everything on our horses, from swimming in lakes and the beach to competing successfully at the “A” AHSA shows (dark ages). Honestly, on my hunter that I bought as a yearling and trained myself, I won as much in western bareback equitation in a bosal as I did in recognized hunt seat classes at big shows. I don’t understand today’s narrow track for both horse and rider - seems silly and a waste and not so much fun.
Now…back on track…
[QUOTE=runwayz;6565644]
I apologise, I was not pointing fingers at anyone. I am an ammie as well. Just making a comment of what I have observed in some situations. And quite humerous ones too. ;)[/QUOTE]
No offense taken here! (and believe me, I’ve observed the very same thing.)
[QUOTE=lauriep;6564987]
Between us, Diane Halpin, Emily Belin, Bill Rube and NBFarm (those are just the ones I know personally), just these people on this BB, you have already begun to see a concerted effort to bring these kids through the HB division and into performance.[/QUOTE]
That’s awesome! It will be great to see horses that are successful in the HB classes go on to become great performance horses! And it will be nice to see the stallions who are at the top of the USEF hunter breeding ranks also show up high in the standings for hunter performance sires. I think at the moment, only Popeye K is in the top 10 on both lists (#2 for Hunter Performance, and #8 for Hunter Breeding) - so big congrats to his people!
[QUOTE=runwayz;6565644]
I apologise, I was not pointing fingers at anyone. I am an ammie as well. Just making a comment of what I have observed in some situations. And quite humerous ones too. ;)[/QUOTE]
I think the difference is between the ammy who buys/breeds a baby with the intention of someday having a good horse for themselves, vs the ammy who travels to Europe (or not) with a BNT and buys a horse that is ready to go. THOSE are the ones who tend not to know a lot of detail about their horse. The baby buyers most certainly do!
FWIW, Ragtime is currently #18 on the USEF Hunter sire list with many of the same foals listed that made him the #1 Hunter Breeding sire in 2010 and 2011.
Is this the longest thread yet?
[QUOTE=Sheila A;6566129]
FWIW, Ragtime is currently #18 on the USEF Hunter sire list with many of the same foals listed that made him the #1 Hunter Breeding sire in 2010 and 2011.[/QUOTE]
Cool! There will be more…
[QUOTE=jumpytoo;6566200]
Is this the longest thread yet?[/QUOTE]
Not yet.
Thread: Alisija Granger
Pages: 162
Comments: 3236
Views: 365631
[QUOTE=Joanne;6566308]
Not yet.
Thread: Alisija Granger
Pages: 162
Comments: 3236
Views: 365631[/QUOTE]
Ah, Geeze. Why did you have to remind me of that mess?
Sorry, Sonesta. I can delete my post if you want and then you can delet your reference to it.
For what it’s worth - I was at an ISR/Oldenburg inspection yesterday and there was a lovely Redwine filly presented who was Reserve Champion Filly with a first-of-the-year 9 for type. The judge loved her and made interesting comments about how Redwine has produced better here in the US than in Germany because he seems to nick really well with American mares. I found it interesting, thought someone here might as well.
To get this thread back on track again, was doing some PM housecleaning and came across this PM from Jill, dated March 2010:
Your not confused, she’s saying something different. Kathy bred to Redwine with a baby at her mares side. I think it’s a little stallion owner to stallion owner jealousy. I’ve been getting emails that she told them one thing before and is now saying something different now that a lot of people are breeding to Redwine. Especially for Redwine when no horse has ever had a symptom it’s fine to breed with a baby at the mares side, we do it all the time.
Unreal … :rolleyes:
Good Lord! Was she talking about breeding an unvaccinated mare with foal at side? 
[QUOTE=TrueColours;6566611]
To get this thread back on track again, was doing some PM housecleaning and came across this PM from Jill, dated March 2010:
Unreal … :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
And I can ASSURE you that was NOT the case. Indeed, it was one of the things that I repeatedly TOLD her I would absolutely NOT do - risk a foal by breeding to an EVA positive stallion. I’m fine with management and vaccination with a mare that can be isolated during the post breeding time frame. And, FWIW, I did a thread in 2008 chronicling the breeding of that mare to help educate people. It’s all right there in writing ;). The mare was open and did not have a foal afoot. We had two pregnant mares at the time. Morticia who was pregnant with Edward Scissorhands and a TB mare in foal to Mannhattan. The mare we bred, was Faberge. Her last foal prior to that was Shenandoah - a 2007 Sempatico foal. Yeah…I keep records. Amazing, isn’t it? ;).
When asked “why” I wouldn’t do it, I make the comparison of would you vaccinate your mare for say, Equine Herpes and then be sufficiently cavalier to go ahead and park her next to a horse that has an active case of EHV when she has a foal afoot? It’s hard enough to get a foal to adulthood without taking additional risks. And my stance on that has NEVER changed. Ever. Nor will it.
Jealous? I don’t think so. We’ve been in business for over 30 years now - granted the farm used to be known by a DIFFERENT name but that’s no secret. Mannhattan has been standing with us for pushing close to 20 years. We’re still here. We performance test or make sure the stallion has competed sufficiently in performance to be licensed. We take care of our customers. We don’t take unnecessary risks. You call for semen, we do everything feasibly possible to get it out, even with late emergency calls. Our breeding lab is immaculate and several members on this board have been here and can attest to that. Our horses are in good weight, de-wormed regularly, vaccinated annually, farrier work regularly - in other words, are well maintained. Mares with foals live out in small groups on pasture. We have 40 acres and own personally around 25 horses.
Also note, the date of the PM as March 2010. By that time, we were well aware of some of the practices of Jill Burnell, especially of her practice of trivializing management of mares for EVA, as well as the claims that “Dr. Timoney said” which were absolute, utter point blank lies. I had begun doing more EVA education posts at that time, which Jill has ALWAYS disliked seeing “pop” up. Which your PM also shows…blatant lying. See a pattern here? <shrug>. But ya know what? Apparently those threads on EVA and magnifying her cavalier attitude are working! Mare owners are that much better educated and less likely to breed without vaccinating.
We have repeatedly and steadfastly attempted to stick to the facts with regards to education on EVA. But, some people will obviously do anything for a buck :(.
Edited to say we try to stick to the facts on everything…not just EVA <lol>…Just to be clear :D!
