[QUOTE=DownYonder;6618414]
Whoa - $12,000 for a weanling foal? And one that is not even DNA’d?
Is that an average price for a hunter foal, or is the price pumped up because it is (supposedly) a Redwine foal?[/QUOTE]
I don’t know…that place in MO (Rising Phoenix WB) that bought the boatload of GFF mares and offspring in July had them all for $12K ea, now all prices are dropped to $8500 or so.
She has her priced high because she doesn’t actually know if she wants to sell lol. I mean, look at that face! She is also quite a character.
Prior to the last year or so, Jill and many others, us included, easily got that for Redwine foals. The entire young horse market is down now, so doubt she will get that now, unless someone with lots of money REALLY falls in love with her!
[QUOTE=alliekat;6618440]
I don’t know this foal or how/why it has been priced, but 12,000 is not out of the norm for a nice Hunter foal at all.[/QUOTE]
I thought the price was high. There are better bred babies at well known (and respected) breeding farms that are less expensive.
[QUOTE=Mardi;6618683]
I thought the price was high. There are better bred babies at well known (and respected) breeding farms that are less expensive.[/QUOTE]
Very well could be for this foal, but a well bred, nicely put together Hunterbred foal can easily bring that price and more. I wasn’t actually commenting on this foal, as I didn’t even look at her.
[QUOTE=alliekat;6618692]
Very well could be for this foal, but a well bred, nicely put together Hunterbred foal can easily bring that price and more. I wasn’t actually commenting on this foal, as I didn’t even look at her.[/QUOTE]
Not looked either but I will opine that there are SOME buyers for “hunter bred” (still a wide open question in my opinion) foals IF buyer is inclined to show or hopes to show “on the line”. I know I get flamed every time I say this but I do not think there are that many foal buyers of “hunter prospects” …they go with trainer or trainer goes IN GENERAL to Europe for those.
HB is an entity unto itself and some breeders have figured out not only formulas for “pretty type” but also have created massive marketing machines, low stud fees, etc. kudos! But after awhile? A market flood? More of “those babies” seen? Soooo, one can SEE that while “some” of stallion x offspring are good to great…quite a few “not” so great…Just as in dressage thread not long ago on COTH, “pretty” and using the “dujour” stallions may NOT lead to a top performance partner (if that your goal)
I can only hope that ANY current or future breeders REALLY work at looking, researching and studying the MARES that produce the really good! Ask around. you may not want to know, but there is plenty of accumulated knowledge re: who throws club feet, babies need stripping often, straight pasterns, hard temperaments, etc etc AND know which of their mares matched best with certain stallions!
Just as it has taken so long for a collective outcryrethe operations of this breeder? There is a lot more info re other stallions (not business practices!) that only will get shared offline, in whispers, one on one.
And I will tell you again, you are just plain wrong. I AM IN THE BUSINESS, for cripes sake, and the owners of the youngsters we get in, sometimes as many as 10 a year, NEVER buy just to “show on the line!!!” They buy either to bring along for themselves, or as an investment. I don’t know where you keep getting this idea, but I know of no one who does this!! Trying to breed pretty/correct in addition to talent/ability is NOT the same as breeding just to show in hand.
We really have no interest in spending our hard labor on horses whose owners only want to show on the line. Sometimes that is how it works out, as we don’t get to keep them long enough to bring them along, but it is NEVER the end game.
Laurie! Won’t engage …if you want to pm me fine …you are too embedded to be objective! Bought into GFF …period! You should not be Part of this discussion! You and Junior are NOT breeders. I respect what you do but you make money off the whole “HB” world. I won’t indulge in what many comment privately …again feel free to pm me if so inclined!
You don’t know what you are talking about, anything about our business or the goals of our clients. So don’t presume to tell me who we are invested in, or how we make our living. You see one segment of what we do when you attend Warrenton. So don’t go there.
And I will call you out on this ridiculous contention of yours every time you make it.
I don’t know laurie, I think JB would like to see this feud played out. Lets not indulge her 
But I know I was questioning your allegiance many moons ago…it’s all OK until it interrupts your cash-flow.
Back to page 1.
[QUOTE=lauriep;6619109]
And I will tell you again, you are just plain wrong. I AM IN THE BUSINESS, for cripes sake, and the owners of the youngsters we get in, sometimes as many as 10 a year, NEVER buy just to “show on the line!!!” They buy either to bring along for themselves, or as an investment. I don’t know where you keep getting this idea, but I know of no one who does this!! Trying to breed pretty/correct in addition to talent/ability is NOT the same as breeding just to show in hand.[/QUOTE]
I rode with Mike Rowe for a some time back in the day and understand exactly what you are saying. He would get many in to “show on the line” but that was never their ending point. He did what he was paid to do. Most want them to win on the line and then in performance. He did breed with both in mind (at that time I have no idea what he is doing now.)
Most (I say most) are not like Western Halter. One speciality and that is it.
Think this still deserves some life.
[QUOTE=lauriep;6619348]
You don’t know what you are talking about, anything about our business or the goals of our clients. So don’t presume to tell me who we are invested in, or how we make our living. You see one segment of what we do when you attend Warrenton. So don’t go there.
And I will call you out on this ridiculous contention of yours every time you make it.[/QUOTE]
uh no Laurie - I go to Upperville and have for years and to Devon - again, I mean no disrespect re your business model and what you and Junior do. As said, you want to PM me, fine - but honestly, this line?
And I will call you out on this ridiculous contention of yours every time you make it?
I am only saying that when you lie down with fleas you may GET fleas and in HB some who don’t deserve to win DO and some who should win DON’T and that means for EVERY hard working handler out there.
[QUOTE=3Dogs;6627585]
uh no Laurie - I go to Upperville and have for years and to Devon - again, I mean no disrespect re your business model and what you and Junior do. As said, you want to PM me, fine - but honestly, this line?
And I will call you out on this ridiculous contention of yours every time you make it?
I am only saying that when you lie down with fleas you may GET fleas and in HB some who don’t deserve to win DO and some who should win DON’T and that means for EVERY hard working handler out there.[/QUOTE]
Duh, it’s called HUNTER breeding. Of course it is political. What does that have to do with Jill Burnell being a criminal?
[QUOTE=Laurierace;6628042]
Duh, it’s called HUNTER breeding. Of course it is political. What does that have to do with Jill Burnell being a criminal?[/QUOTE]
:yes::lol:
That was my thought when I read that comment too. The ribbon lottery is alive and well at all shows where you are paying for the judges opinion. Not sure what that has to do with this thread.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;6628283]
That was my thought when I read that comment too. The ribbon lottery is alive and well at all shows where you are paying for the judges opinion. Not sure what that has to do with this thread.[/QUOTE]
Sorry…nothing to do with a criminal: responded to what posted re value of JB offspring and LR you repeatedly post what offered for yours and then LP, who many of us who WATCH and attend many HB shows with no “dogs” showing, know had a deal at one time with JB. You are not clearly disinterested parties…I get it.
Let it drop. I felt queasy about JB years ago and got villified by many of the folks currently posting they “see the light”. Good luck to all…still have a pang of pity for all the honest stallion owners out there without a false facade market machine for that elusive “hunter” baby!
I have no idea what you are talking about. I attempted to breed a replacement for my irreplaceable show horse which I assure you is more diificult than breeding for the elusive hunter. In the meantime I am having a little fun with her.
[QUOTE=3Dogs;6629470]
Sorry…nothing to do with a criminal: responded to what posted re value of JB offspring and LR you repeatedly post what offered for yours and then LP, who many of us who WATCH and attend many HB shows with no “dogs” showing, know had a deal at one time with JB. You are not clearly disinterested parties…I get it.
Let it drop. I felt queasy about JB years ago and got villified by many of the folks currently posting they “see the light”. Good luck to all…still have a pang of pity for all the honest stallion owners out there without a false facade market machine for that elusive “hunter” baby![/QUOTE]
I don’t know what you are smoking, but let me give you some FACTS:
There was never any “deal” with Jill. She sent us four babies, we sold three very quickly, and the last we showed through his two year old year, then sold him. End of story. She PAID us to go out and look at her stock this year, but nothing came of it. We have had horses from many sources over the years, breeders and buyers alike. She was just another.
I have made no secret of my admiration of Redwine’s get. You have not lived with them, tested them, observed them over time, so how you can make these sweeping generalizations just because you watch some classes from the sidelines, I don’t get. But we have had offspring from more than 17 stallions pass through our barn. Can anyone else make that claim? I don’t think so. But it gives us a unique perspective and we are able to compare one to another. We have free jumped them. We deal with them on the ground. They have ALL been nice horses, but of course you develop preferences. We have never had an Apiro and would love to rectify that, as well as others. I only speak to things I know to be facts, not assumptions.
This whole argument started over your constant assertion that people breed/buy SOLELY for the HB ring, and I have told you repeatedly that that is just. Not. True. By extension, your disdain for Redwine has indicated that is all you think his kids can do. You have decided that they couldn’t possibly be athletes, and I can assure you THROUGH ACTUAL EXPERIENCE WITH THEM that that is also not true. If you don’t like him, fine, but his kids will prove themselves. Brandon has a three year old he thinks has unlimited potential. Ask him. There are two in FL that are older and the owner is bringing them through the divisions. Watch for them.
I haven’t spoken to Jill since July, so not exactly a close relationship. Junior is an equal opportunity handler and other than our longest term customer, who has been with us since day one, no one gets preferential treatment.
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