Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[TWF]

NOPE - Original foal papers for Grand Affair in the hand of legit owner.

[QUOTE=Mardi;6744823]
Curious…if mare and baby are not at Jill’s, are we sure Jill owns the mare and has a right to sell her ?[/QUOTE]

Jill Burnell does NOT have the original set of foal papers for “Grand Affair” Her registration papers were never transferred by her owner - Jill Johnson.

[INDENT]Let it be known by all that I bred “Grand Affair”. Any papers bearing the name of Grand Affair by Grande Saber are NOT legitimate papers from her breeder or the stallion owner…which by the way is - TWF -formerly Tellwynd in Lancaster, PA and I am also owner and breeder of the stallion Grande Saber.
[/INDENT]

Please feel free to contact me by email TELLWYND@AOL.COM.
Leave a number and I will call you.
Joan Watt

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=COTHalter44;6743855]
That poor mare. :no: :mad:

I have been told that JB and hubby are living in a small camping trailer on the property. It is not even a full RV and there are no utilities there.[/QUOTE]

It is true.

[Joanne]

I don’t know the ins and outs of the hunter breeding world as far as getting points and awards, but couldn’t some who are interested in taking Jill down a peg or two just rename their Jill Burnell-bred horses and put in unknown breeding?

I am also sorta of surprised to find a link on the Lauriep web site recommending Jill Burnell’s farm and horses, since it APPEARS that the bridge between the two business entities has fallen.

[sid]

Krallen, what a dreadful situation. That’s a first…selling someone a dead horse. Good Lord.:no:

Obviously the best route to shut JB down is if the victims unite en masse and hire one lawyer that would cut the costs for all. I can only hope that those who DO have the financial resources to pursue their grievance will do so – and those who don’t can be brought together as a coalition.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Joanne;6745491]
I don’t know the ins and outs of the hunter breeding world as far as getting points and awards, but couldn’t some who are interested in taking Jill down a peg or two just rename their Jill Burnell-bred horses and put in unknown breeding?

I am also sorta of surprised to find a link on the Lauriep web site recommending Jill Burnell’s farm and horses, since it APPEARS that the bridge between the two business entities has fallen.[/QUOTE]

Really? Because I am the ONLY one who works on our website. I am also the ONLY one who takes care of our horses as far as grooming, laundry, tack, clothing, EVERYTHING. We share stall duty. I also work side jobs, everyday. The LAST thing I have time for is sitting at my computer, updating our website. Which hasn’t been done for at least six months, probably more. When I next find a couple of hours with nothing to do and update the website, I will be sure to remove the link.

Also, using the faulty USEF system which we all complain about all the time, as far as horses getting new IDs and new names/breeding, to remove any mention of Jill or her stallions, because it would now serve someone’s purpose, that is not going to happen. Our horses will be correctly identified, regardless of who owns or bred them. Jill will get taken down by other means.

[Joanne]

[QUOTE=lauriep;6746085]
Really? Because I am the ONLY one who works on our website. I am also the ONLY one who takes care of our horses as far as grooming, laundry, tack, clothing, EVERYTHING. We share stall duty. I also work side jobs, everyday. The LAST thing I have time for is sitting at my computer, updating our website. Which hasn’t been done for at least six months, probably more. When I next find a couple of hours with nothing to do and update the website, I will be sure to remove the link.

Also, using the faulty USEF system which we all complain about all the time, as far as horses getting new IDs and new names/breeding, to remove any mention of Jill or her stallions, because it would now serve someone’s purpose, that is not going to happen. Our horses will be correctly identified, regardless of who owns or bred them. Jill will get taken down by other means.[/QUOTE]

REALLY! Where do you find the time to post here?

[Krallen]

In response to small claims court, every state has a different limit…in the seller’s state in my case, the limit is 10k. This is one option I am still considering, so things are not a done deal just yet.
My purpose here was not to change the focus of the thread, just to let people know that seeking recourse in situations like this is pretty tough. I completely understand why folks like JB haven’t been held liable. This has definitely changed my view of buying horses from people I don’t know very well. I used to think that asking for a few references was a little overboard, but not anymore. In my situation, I contacted the seller and also flew to their place to meet them and see the horse about 7-8 months prior to buying it…they just never told me that in that time period the horse died. We had a signed contract, but what good is a contract if the only way to enforce it is to spend the money on a civil suit?

Hindsight is 20/20 though, and I go back and forth to thinking what an idiot I was and wondering what I could have done differently. In 99% of horse sales, we send the check or wire and figure the horse will get on the shipper’s trailer and show up at our door. This wasn’t any different, except the horse didn’t show up. Or, we send the money for the stud fee and hope the stallion owner answers their phone when we need a collection, but what if they don’t?

Also, someone brought up that my $16k loss was petty in the eyes of some lawyers. This is very true; one told me they didn’t take cases on horses worth less than 25k, another said most of their cases were for horses six figures and up.
Given all of this, it is easy for deceitful sellers or trainers to keep playing their games. Most things are in their favor.

[Mardi]

So you saw the mare, decided to buy her 7-8 months later, paid for her, and when she didn’t arrive, what was the explanation given by the seller ? How did you find out the mare had died ?

And the seller is keeping your money ??? How do they explain that ?

What a mess.

But I have to say, if one lawyer won’t take the case, there’s another that will.

[lauriep]

Why would they when they stand to make little, if any, off the case? I think Krallen’s experience s very typical and explains the barriers to pursuing Jill.

[Mardi]

Ask Rachel at Equine Legal what she’d do with a case like Krallen’s.
http://www.equinelegalsolutions.com

Surely there’s some recourse.

[Appsolute]

Again if anyone can provide a photo of the camper she is living in, I will get the authorities on this. You are not allowed to live on the property without utilities or a certificate of occupancy.

The county would most likely force her to no longer live there, which would put a major kink in her operation and hopefully make it that much harder for her to keep up this fraud.

[Daventry]

Squashing the rumor mill before it starts

I just thought I would post an update on what is happening with information that has been given to me this morning so rumors don’t get started. Although it may seem like owners have not come forward, they are starting to. To dispel any rumors that are going to be flying around the next few days, here is what is currently happening;

I have been told Marin Humane Society went in and seized one mare and one stallion from Jill’s property a couple of days ago. The mare is being well cared for and treated and the stallion is currently at an animal hospital and under medical attention. The last thing Marin Humane Society wanted to do was go in and seize the horses, but their first priority is for the well-being of the animals.

So no one starts to panic, Marine Humane Society said they do NOT spay or castrate livestock and have NO intentions of gelding any stallions, spaying any mares, etc. (a few COTH members on here were worried about that).

At this time, any horses that are, or allegedly will be seized, will be either going into temporary foster homes or being treated directly by Marin Humane Society until the case is settled or goes to trial. Currently the case is under investigation. As the majority of the mares will be foaling out in a few months, Marin Humane Society would appreciate any donation or local horse owners in the area willing to help out with the expenses they are going to have to cover in the coming months if more mares end up being seized. If you are local to the area and think you could provide a good foster care home, you are encouraged to give them a call.

All of this now ends up going through a judge. If I understand correctly, Jill has been ordered to comply with an order from Marin Humane Society. If this goes through court, Jill can comply…or it could end up going to trial, which could take up to a year to sort out, due to gathering evidence, witnesses, picking jury members, etc. Marin Humane Society/temporary foster homes will continue to remain the care givers for the animals during that time as well.

Marin Humane Society at this time is asking anyone who OWNS a mare, or any other horse that is in Jill’s possession to come forward. If it ends up that this goes to trial and Jill is found guilty and sentenced, then the horses will be adopted out. So their first priority is to try and place the mares back with their rightful owners. Anyone who has also gifted a mare to Jill, etc. should also contact Marin Humane Society at this time.

As well, those who have posted on here that they have allegedly purchased an injured, sick or thin animal from Jill are also encouraged to contact Marin Humane Society at this time. They are hoping the judge will also be willing to view evidence related to civil matters regarding the horses.

Anyone who has information regarding horses possibly being moved off of Jill’s property and being hidden in the surrounding area, you are also encouraged to contact Marin Humane Society at this time.

As far as the “living in the camper trailer on the property” and doing something about that…I’ve been told that is already being looked after, so no further witch hunt is needed.

Michelle Rogers is the Marin Humane Society Investigator who has been posting on here and is the best person to get in touch with. Her number is (415) 506-6236 and her email is mrogers@marinhumanesociety.org

I’m sure I speak for many people on the COTH BB in thanking Michelle & the Marin Humane Society for stepping forward and taking action.

Hopefully that answers everybody’s questions!

Added: I have heard the Marin Humane Society is in the process of setting up a donation page for the Burnell horses. Until that time, donations can be made directly to the Marin Humane Society www.marinhumanesociety.org

[sid]

Thanks, Daventry – and thank you Michelle. This is great news.

[Nootka]

WOW :applause: Hope everything works out well!

[Molly_Malone]

Thank god there’s an end in sight. The image of a pile of dead foals will never leave me.

[Daventry]

@Lynnwood;6743173

I could be really wrong and it is entirely hearsay but I heard that this last foaling was really hard on her.,the 2012 filly. There are pictures of her with the 2011 colt on a FB page looking terrible. This is a fantastic mare that did/does not deserve what she has been dealt. If she is open you can bet its not intentional …I hope she is ok.

I may be wrong, but I have it on good authority that Grand Affair is not currently at Jill’s and is doing well and in much better weight.

[EquusMagnificus]

:applause:

[Jeito]

Thank you for the update, Daventry Earlier someone asked me what my suggestions would be. What I would have said yesterday, and can say more optimistically now, is to work with the people who are already working on this.

Edited to add: :applause::applause::applause:

[Appsolute]

:applause::applause: so happy to hear that the authorities are finally getting involved!

[peskee]

Thank God…these horses have some hope…And hope the rumor of Grande Affair (Grande Diva) is correct…The pictures were so devastating!!! How can such a horse end up like that…I cared for her and her siblings as a foal and want nothing but great things for her future!!!