Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[horsenut93136]

[QUOTE=JWB;6753223]
First of all - I think trying to sell a broodmare that is not breeding sound is unethical on many levels, however horses are sold without papers all the time.

I have papers sitting in my safety deposit box that I chose to retain for personal reasons, but the horse was sold without them. I do not claim to own the horse. I received a check and signed a bill of sale. Possession of a registration certificate doesn’t prove anything.

For the mare’s sake however, I hope she is allowed her well earned retirement.[/QUOTE]

Sorry TWF but the post # you referred to can’t be found. This post by JWB #2468 is what I was referring to. If she was not the mare’s owner then I guess it has no bearing. I understand you passion for you mare, but bullying will not change the fact that I was not the only one wondering.

Anyway back to the core thread and hoping ALL the mares and stallions land safely and again kudos to those who stepped up offering services.

[FalseImpression]

[QUOTE=Kinsella;6761606]
And I’d like to give kudos to the people that are busting their asses to make this nightmare come to an end for the horses and people affected. ( Those in the public eye, and those that prefer to keep their efforts and contributions out of the public eye… Remember that not everyone wants their involvement out there for scrutiny or praise.)[/QUOTE]

Thank you for mentioning that. Some posters obviously are looking for praise and may be quick to blame the ones that work diligently behind the scenes. Some assume too much and remember when the truth comes out, the ones assuming will… well you know the saying!

[TWF]

[QUOTE=Hunters Peak;6753252]
In this world one has to actually pay for things(property, animals, etc.) to own them outright. The mare 100% had a broad ligament bleed. A sizeable one. I can’t comment any further because of on going legal action. However, this is a warning. Whomever claims to own this mare, better be able to produce her original papers for the police. I know only ONE person who can do that.[/QUOTE]

This is post #2496 by of the owner of Grand Affair - Jill Johnson

[Daventry]

For those Mare Owners & Horse Owners who arrived late on this thread and may be affected by all of this, the Stallion Owners who have donated their services are listed in this post:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?365037-Doing-business-with-JILL-BURNELL-BEWARE&p=6756610#post6756610

It is being updated as more donations come in. This is separate from the live auction which is being set up to help out the Marin Humane Society.

[DownYonder]

Originally Posted by Hunters Peak
In this world one has to actually pay for things(property, animals, etc.) to own them outright. The mare 100% had a broad ligament bleed. A sizeable one. I can’t comment any further because of on going legal action. However, this is a warning. Whomever claims to own this mare, better be able to produce her original papers for the police. I know only ONE person who can do that.

[QUOTE=TWF;6761659]
This is post #2496 by of the owner of Grand Affair[/QUOTE]

I am still a bit unclear on how the mare ended up with JB/GFF, but wanted to point out the police can’t do much without a court order. And judges tend to honor legitimate bills of sale rather than “original papers” (or copies, etc.). So it really wouldn’t matter who holds the “papers” (assuming you mean “registration papers”) - it would come down to whether there was a legitimate bill of sale, and whether all terms of the sales contract had been met by both parties. At least, this is the way things went down for a friend of mine that ended up in an ownership dispute (buyer reneged on payments after horse was shipped - along with registration passport - but my friend had a signed sales contract that specified horse was hers until paid for in full, so the court awarded the horse to her. But it was a lengthly process to get the horse back - and cost her a nice little bundle of money!)

[Koniucha]

I know this is a slight tangent, but does Hunters Peak own Grand Affair? This is all so confusing!

[peskee]

OK, I have a large boarding/breeding facility. I have at least 6 retired performance horses here that are owned by people who do not have their registration papers, does this mean I should expect people to come crawling out of the woodwork with Registration papers to claim other peoples horses? How absurd…ownership takes place with a bill of sale. I have a KWPN broodmare which I own that came without her papers, I had to go back 4 owners and then to the trainer of that owner to get her passport/KWPN papers and then get a signature from that previous owner to get her registered. Legally owning and having the papers is two totally different things. Papers are only valuable to those who are breeding.

[FLIPPED_HER_HALO]

[QUOTE=COTHalter44;6760674]
I didn’t mean to imply that there was as I have not seen anything but good things from your program. The poster I quoted made it sound like there was something more to it.[/QUOTE]

When she was still with JB yes there was lots of worry. Not after she left the farm. :yes:

[Kenike]

I’m also confused…I suspect there’s a lot of chatter going on via PM that isn’t helping. Some of the Grande saga is starting to feel a bit like the telephone game. I think I’m following that:

-Grande Affair was never sold to GFF, therefore no legal Bill of Sale existed that allowed for the “sale” to Hunter’s Peak. (Someone PLEASE tell me there is a breeding lease that can be presented to law enforcement!)

-Grande Affair’s rightful owner is desperately trying to get her back, but has to deal with a leaser that now is shown to be a habitual liar.

-Hunters Peak probably bought GA without honest knowledge of the mare not legally belonging to JB and GFF, thereby essentially “buying” a stolen mare, but also now doesn’t APPEAR to accept the mare is not rightfully theirs (again, I say appear…they very well could be talking to TWF and/or law enforcement privately and doing what they can to keep it off public boards. One never truly knows the honest truth when seeing an Internet mess playing out)

-Grande Divina is not in question (and really never was), but was tossed into the conversation (possibly as a way to stir the pot?). That mare should never have been mentioned.

It really is a shame things have gone this way. I honestly believe the animals NEED to get out of that situation, but also that Jill needs psychiatric help. She seems to display (what I would classify as) classic addiction and hoarding symptoms. It’s a sad story all around!

[equitruth]

Lets stay focused on the entire herd everyone. Its not only Grand Affair who has had to live there. Look at ALL the horses she has. Many wonderful mares, foals, yearlings, stallions etc… have been completely neglected

[vineyridge]

One would hope that her past horse treatment in other counties would mean something to the Marin County Judge. So one also hopes that those who have bought animals (foals, broodmares) or recovered animals from her that were in negliected condition would step up and provide the information to the Marin County Humane Society. If there is a history, backed up with evidence, of mistreatment in the past, it’s possible the judge might not allow her to own horses. And that would shut her down.

So all the history of foals and mares who came directly from JB and GFF in medically proven bad condition could well be useful to getting her shut down.

I have no idea what the California Evidence Rules are, but generally depositions from people in faraway places are admissible under certain conditions. At least civilly. Don’t know about criminally, but would think this is considered a civil matter.

Or maybe not.

For instance, the person who took the photograph of the piles of dead foals would have to be available in some manner for the photo to be admissible. Or maybe not.

[vineyridge]

One would hope that her past horse treatment in other counties would mean something to the Marin County Judge. So one also hopes that those who have bought animals (foals, broodmares) or recovered animals from her that were in negliected condition would step up and provide the information to the Marin County Humane Society. If there is a history, backed up with evidence, of mistreatment in the past, it’s possible the judge might not allow her to own horses. And that would shut her down.

So all the history of foals and mares who came directly from JB and GFF in medically proven bad condition could well be useful to getting her shut down.

I have no idea what the California Evidence Rules are, but generally depositions from people in faraway places are admissible under certain conditions. At least civilly. Don’t know about criminally, but would think this is considered a civil matter. Or maybe not.

For instance, the person who took the photograph of the piles of dead foals would have to be available in some manner for the photo to be admissible.

[COTHalter44]

I realize it is still early in the day here, but any updates on the HS activity today?

[ise]

Peskee - did you buy a farm? As far as ownership not having anything to do with who has the papers - don’t go to Europe with that mind frame. The person with the original papers for warmbloods there IS THE OWNER.

[Lynnwood]

Anyone else notice that since JB moved and has admittedly had spotty internet service how many fewer supportive “alters” there have been.

[Equinoxfox]

Update .???

Has anyone heard of the status or condition of Romantic Star as of today ?? I was informed that due to his condition he may have been put down… ??
Please say that is NOT true. such a sad situation .

[Daventry]

The Marin Humane Society is not releasing any information at this time. Please hang on and information will come as soon as possible. Until things are confirmed, it’s best not to perpetuate any further rumours.

[Kenike]

Equinox, I’m not sure where you heard that rumor, but I’d not be believing it.

[rescueme]

Wasn’t today supposed to be the big day as well where she was to have complied with the Humane Society requests?

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=rescueme;6762751]
Wasn’t today supposed to be the big day as well where she was to have complied with the Humane Society requests?[/QUOTE]

YES!