DY and DL- agreed!
[QUOTE=Lynnwood;6776937]
Not at all ethical but I have seen vets do Health Certs without ever taking off a horses blanket , taking a temp or doing an exam.
There are a myriad of ways a horse in poor condition could have still acquired a heath cert to travel. We also do not know the story that was spun to the official who examined the horse. Skinny unwell horses are shipped across the country all the time.[/QUOTE]
Health certificate exams are primarily concerned with communicable diseases.
Skinny isn’t contagious.
DY and DL, I also strongly agree with you.
[QUOTE=Callmeacab;6777595]
What bothers me is why didn’t Sonoma County do anything. I know they’re laxer on zoning and codes, but come on, 30 horses on 2 acres? I KNOW that’s against agricultural code, even for Sonoma. Surely the poor neighbors complained to deaf ears at the city and county, which is unacceptable. I’m disgusted with Sonoma County and I think they have some explaining to do.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea about the particulars of JBs Hannan Ranch Lane Farm - I lived around the corner a while back and i do know that some of the folks on her lane did get a petition up and i am not sure where that went. Also JB was leasing pasture from her neighbor (who has 15 acres?) and finally, be careful in what you are saying because there are MANY small acreage places here with a larger number of horses on them. In fact I know of many boarding facilities that have upwards of 10 horses per acre…
I believe the zoning allows for 2 horses per acre and that you can get permits for more - the concern being manure of course.
Also, please remember that no one was raising concerns about the horses condition until now - when she lost her house and moved to this parcel of unimproved land.
I still think this entire thing needs to stay focused on the alleged illegal activities and not try to make it into a horse abuse case - why? because if JB did indeed do all those things to folks - that would be a far better way to make charges stick than trying to get her for abuse or neglect.
but people smell blood and don’t seem to really care about how this all might play out in the courts…
Here’s my observation as a breeder and stallion owner.
- NEVER sell or send one of you broodmares to any other breeder unless you have confirmed that their facility is up your standards and that this person can maintain the mare. Put it in the contract that if the mare is no longer needed and/or not being cared for that the contract is null and void and you can take the mare back. If the farm is not nearby - find another breeder in the area to check on the mare especially if it is a lease or loan situation. I know it’s a big country but going through the warmblood registries it’s possible to find breeders in every state. Reputable ones will help you out.
Regarding purchasing a stallion. I would want to see the current condition of the stallion and would spend the money to fly to lay eyes on it. I would want ALL veterinary records on the stallion - including inoculations and would have the stallion tested for EVA and CEM. I would pay to have the stallion collected to know the quality of the semen. This is not just a PURCHASE - it’s an INVESTMENT.
If the farm owner balks at visits - WALK AWAY FROM THE DEAL.
Also if you are buying a foal or young horse - REQUIRE all records not only of inoculations, worming and trimming for this animal but ALSO for it’s dam. A significant issue is the nutrition of the dam during pregnancy which does affect the development of the foal.
AGAIN - this is an INVESTMENT.
And if you have mares that are retired or can’t be bred anymore - DO THE RIGHT THING AND PUT THEM DOWN if you can’t afford to keep them.
[QUOTE=nycjumper;6777806]
Wow - so it’s totally offensive to buy a nice stallion that is a good fit with your breeding program? And even worse for the stallion to be put into a good and ethical breeding program where mare owners will have access to him and trust they are getting what they paid for? Yes, I can certainly understand the shock and horror displayed by certain posters here. (insert giant eye roll).
Well, if nothing else, this thread has served to further my “wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole” list of stallions and their owners. The list might start with Jill but it sure isn’t finishing there.
I have to say, this thread has prompted me to report posts to moderators for the first time ever.[/QUOTE]
Especially agree with the list :). As a customer I wouldn’t got near the lynching SO’s.
Piece of work Cartier.
[QUOTE=mbm;6777969]
I have no idea about the particulars of JBs Hannan Ranch Lane Farm - I lived around the corner a while back and i do know that some of the folks on her lane did get a petition up and i am not sure where that went. Also JB was leasing pasture from her neighbor (who has 15 acres?) and finally, be careful in what you are saying because there are MANY small acreage places here with a larger number of horses on them. In fact I know of many boarding facilities that have upwards of 10 horses per acre…
I believe the zoning allows for 2 horses per acre and that you can get permits for more - the concern being manure of course.
Also, please remember that no one was raising concerns about the horses condition until now - when she lost her house and moved to this parcel of unimproved land.
I still think this entire thing needs to stay focused on the alleged illegal activities and not try to make it into a horse abuse case - why? because if JB did indeed do all those things to folks - that would be a far better way to make charges stick than trying to get her for abuse or neglect.
but people smell blood and don’t seem to really care about how this all might play out in the courts…[/QUOTE]
TO ANY AND ALL OF YOU WHO LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. I and others send the links to the photos of Jill’s farm to the State Veterinarian and to the FDA Veterinarian who covers the region. We have repeatedly nudged them and have seen no action - even knowing the EVA situation. Rally horse people to call, email or fax your State Veterinarian and demend action.
due to some of the preceding posts, i am finally understanding some of the stuff going on here…
i couldn’t figure out WHY anyone would be against a horse going from a bad situation to a good one and how anyone could have any say about an seller/buyer agreement where they are neither party.
but if it is true that a certain stallion was “promised” to someone who isnt the current buyer - that just starts to make a lot more sense…
and if true, then the person doing the vilifying is no better than JB …
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6777996]
TO ANY AND ALL OF YOU WHO LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. I and others send the links to the photos of Jill’s farm to the State Veterinarian and to the FDA Veterinarian who covers the region. We have repeatedly nudged them and have seen no action - even knowing the EVA situation. Rally horse people to call, email or fax your State Veterinarian and demend action.[/QUOTE]
honestly? and i mean this with respect - there are more important things than this case… there are real neglect/starvation/cruelty cases - there are so many worse things going on here - i am not sure i want CA to take resources better used elsewhere and place them here.
that is why i keep saying for the folks who were criminally wronged - that is the direction to take!
[QUOTE=mbm;6778002]
due to some of the preceding posts, i am finally understanding some of the stuff going on here…
i couldn’t figure out WHY anyone would be against a horse going from a bad situation to a good one and how anyone could have any say about an seller/buyer agreement where they are neither party.
but if it is true that a certain stallion was “promised” to someone who isnt the current buyer - that just starts to make a lot more sense…
and if true, then the person doing the vilifying is no better than JB …[/QUOTE]
Mbm, that is all speculation, as is so much of what is on the later pages of this thread. RS was not promised to anyone. Please read very carefully. There are only a couple of people who know the real story on the stallion’s condition, injury and sale. And they are not posting here.
This thread has so jumped the shark. Perhaps we should start the musical version ala Two and a half men?
thanks for the dose of reality 
will head your post.
@nycjumper, I found it was also good to have another list of people on here I would LOVE to do business with. SO’s and trainer
back to the purpose
[QUOTE=lauriep;6778021]
There are only a couple of people who know the real story on the stallion’s condition, injury and sale. And they are not posting here.[/QUOTE]
And that’s just it! So many people do not know the real story, and unfortunately, those that do know are not allowed to comment at this time. While there have been a few hints thrown out there, the real story is likely not going to come out for a few months…or longer, depending on how long it takes to settle all of this and the investigation is finished.
In the meantime while theories and speculations are flying 
:
Marin Humane Society Fundraiser:
http://www.leg-up.org/marin-county-fund-raisingauctiondonation-page.html
Marin Humane Society Donations:
https://www.kintera.org/site/c.aiIOI3NLKgKYF/b.8490959/k.5C3E/West_Marin_Horse_Case/apps/ka/sd/donor.asp?c=aiIOI3NLKgKYF&b=8490959&en=clLNK3NLLbIWKdPOLaITJaOZIvK7IgPXIpL0J9MULlIXKjOaF
Having been on this board for a long time (time is flying) I have learned over the years whom to “listen” to and whom to believe and who better not to be read or even on ignore.
Ronda has been on here a long time and also in serious business a long time and I really do not get the fuss here !
I am very sure that those of you who are now thinking it is their right to take position have done NOTHING to improve the situation of the horses in Jills posession before.
No matter that people like it or not: Ronda did something to get one horse out of there !
No one of you knows more details and I find it really nasty to speculate. Maybe Ronda has a contract in which it is stated that the satllion is not paid with money but with horse feed ? Who of you knows ? So before jumping onto someone who did something I would keep my big mouth shut and very shut !
Especially this bu*"&$%"§ (Sorry for wording) about other breeders’ businesses that have retired sporthorse mares in comparison to JB’s business what does that have to do with anything and how do such comments help on with the other horses (or dogs) in jill’s care ?
Instead of writing here about things people simply have no idea off because they are not involved, one should get out word on leg up and donate oneself !
Get real and do something !
(Vent off).
This thread is approx. 2% fact and the rest speculation, nastiness and BS. Oh and the links to auction are good too.
Actually, its best that individuals with actual knowledge of the situation are not posting here. Pretty much anything said or any action taken will be judged and criticized relentlessly. Regardless of merit. This thread is spinning in the lalaland wind. I would venture 99.9% judgey pants - and 0.1% fact. There was the post of the court action about a dozen pages earlier.
Pushing away from the keyboard and riding. Even cleaning the house beats this thread. Really sad.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6777996]
TO ANY AND ALL OF YOU WHO LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. I and others send the links to the photos of Jill’s farm to the State Veterinarian and to the FDA Veterinarian who covers the region. We have repeatedly nudged them and have seen no action - even knowing the EVA situation. Rally horse people to call, email or fax your State Veterinarian and demend action.[/QUOTE]
Yes, because it’s so helpful to alert the officials that a bunch of crazy people are gossiping on the internet.
I’m not surprised that the Food and Drug Administration has not been responsive to your calls. And if you are calling the USDA, not the FDA, I’m also not surprised that they’re not responding to you since they have no jurisdiction over alleged neglect or zoning violations.
Calling the CA Dept of Food and Agriculture to let them know that you think there might be horses carrying EVA, which is endemic in the US, is also not going to raise the OMG level. According to the State’s list of reportable diseases, diagnostic labs report monthly on EVA. It’s no secret that the disease is present. Do you realize the vaccine for that is highly effective?
You’re also concerned that RS must be tested for CEM!!!11!1! which is interesting given the prevalence of the disease, how it’s diagnosed, and the fact that it’s treatable.
ps the high drama being pushed by SO’s right now does seem like an agenda. Wouldn’t they love it if all the stallions were seized and had to be put to auction and placed where THEY want them to go…
hmmmmmm
ps as soooo many have pointed out the horses were not starving previously so I really doubt the state would have thought anything but above, that there is a lynch mob on COTH. And I also think that all this negativity not being directed where it should is a turnoff to folks that might have wanted to donate but don’t like the atmosphere. Could you imagine if this was a thread of fact and people stuck to commenting on the facts. Would look a whole lot more enticing to help.
COTH at its best is a powerful and wonderful thing. At its worst, COTH gives me a giant headache and makes me head for the aspirin bottle. Can we please stop with the speculation, backbiting, innuendoes and keep this thread on track?
For those who do not want anything on the auction site, please consider a donation to Marin County Humane Society. They have a place on their online donation form for a note where you can state that you wish the funds to go towards the case against GFF.
Marin Humane Society Donations:
https://www.kintera.org/site/c.aiIOI…0J9MULlIXKjOaF
If you are breeding, please consider the offerings at the auction:
Marin Humane Society Fundraiser:
http://www.leg-up.org/marin-county-f…tion-page.html
