[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6777415]
As one of the parties who regularly posts on equine reproduction on this board and is a stallion owner, I would like to clarify if the claim is directed at me, it is incorrect. I spoke with Ronda by telephone two days ago. I was candid with her and told her my opinion of the transaction. I said it to her face. I have no reason to repeat it on this Bulletin Board to people who have no direct involvement.[/QUOTE]
I have followed this thread from post one.
With that being said having met you and interacting with you it would never cross my mind that it was you Kathy. Jos either. You both have way too much class for that.
I honestly have no clue why anyone who isn’t the horses seller/buyer, has any business having a vocal opinion about said sale/purchase? what the hell?
Please stop bickering. Can we get back to helping these horses? First and foremost, they should be the priority.
I have totally stayed out of this until now. Jill has lovely stallions and mares and I hope all of them land in great homes if that is the case. No horse should be starved or neglected. I have always wanted a Red Wine foal, but it will never happen.
Concerning RSF-Ronda I am appalled at some of the posters slamming her. She purchased a lovely stallion to stand that fits her breeding program and how is she to know the condition of the stallion when he is in California and she is not. Ronda is a top breeder, honest, hard working, and generous. Her horses are taken better care of than some of the posters’ horses are. This thread has really turned into a total disaster. Shame on some of the posters.
How did she know the condition of the horse when she doesn’t live there? Gee I don’t know, you go see what you’re purchasing. And I’m not trying to be mean to anyone. I see a big failing here in that very few breeders or purchasers of horses from JB actually went to her set up. I don’t really care about California and small set ups, babies and young stock should have much more room.
I mean at the very least if I’m shipping my mare somewhere for services I’m going to have to visit first. Those are just my stupid little rules. I can tell you had I visited the original 2.5 acre “farm” she would not have gotten my money. I know I know, America is so big. Yup I get it. I’ve criss crossed it many times driving. But you know what we as breeders get to vote with our money who we will use. SO’s and sellers don’t make money without us. Maybe people should start caring a bit more than glossy photos and start making a visiting trip before breeding. And visit something you might purchase. Heck most of us have someone we trust living near SO’s. Start being a bit more picky and start thinking beyond the stallion in question. Does this person deserve my money? This stallion fits my criteria but what about the set up. What about the mares, how are they treated? Youngstock? Am I the only one who thinks this could have stopped earlier if people actually went to JB’s place? Or is it just me who really gives a crap?
I just don’t think this would have continued as long as it has if more people cared about the other details as much as the stallion they use. But most are happy enough to get semen and a pregnant mare. Want to prevent this from happening again then start caring about the other details. And for that I’m afraid you need to do more than look at a website. For me it’s the whole horse care package I’m afraid. It’s not how fancy but how it all works.
Terri
What bothers me is why didn’t Sonoma County do anything. I know they’re laxer on zoning and codes, but come on, 30 horses on 2 acres? I KNOW that’s against agricultural code, even for Sonoma. Surely the poor neighbors complained to deaf ears at the city and county, which is unacceptable. I’m disgusted with Sonoma County and I think they have some explaining to do.
Very good point Callmeacab :yes:.
Why should anyone but JB be immune from comments? People make mistakes. People get duped. But at some point people have to take responsibility and stand up. JB didn’t get where she is in a vacuum. Posters who correctly point that out are getting flamed. Why?
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;6777591]
How did she know the condition of the horse when she doesn’t live there? Gee I don’t know, you go see what you’re purchasing.
Terri[/QUOTE]
RSF is obviously capable to fly to Belgium to buy young horses, fly to OK to visit the stallion test, fly to FL to show at WEF. I"m sure she could have easily hopped a plane to see the stallion in person. Not like she’s without the means to do so.
[QUOTE=CathyKb;6777572]
I have totally stayed out of this until now. Jill has lovely stallions and mares and I hope all of them land in great homes if that is the case. No horse should be starved or neglected. I have always wanted a Red Wine foal, but it will never happen.
Concerning RSF-Ronda I am appalled at some of the posters slamming her. She purchased a lovely stallion to stand that fits her breeding program and how is she to know the condition of the stallion when he is in California and she is not. Ronda is a top breeder, honest, hard working, and generous. Her horses are taken better care of than some of the posters’ horses are. This thread has really turned into a total disaster. Shame on some of the posters.[/QUOTE]
If you are a total novice you might purchase a breeding stallion – without checking the condition of the stallion and the quality of his semen. An experienced breeder would not. If you are new to horses, if you just fell off the turnip truck, you might purchase a stallion that has been in JBs care… and expect to be received with flowers and warm wishes for great success in making $$$ off the stallion. RSF is not new to this situation… at the very least she understood what was going on, she has even posted on this thread. She knew how her conduct would come across. What she is doing is a big “[edit]” for those who have stepped up to help and she knows it. Defending what she did is insulting to those who have stepped up… and gave from their pocket books simply because it was the right thing to do, with no benefit for themselves. For the very reasons that ponyponyponi stated, what RSF did is offensive, plain and simple. I would claim authorship of ponyponyponi’s post if I could.
With respect to GFF and those like her, what we have seen over the years is a group of financially marginalized breeders, with stars in their eyes, who manage to get a hold of retired mares - who have some show record. They then use the glossy photos of previous performance success to make up a website and impress the public. Look at GFF’s website. I can think of others. It is a business model that preys on a naïve public and exploits mare owners who haven’t the room or the interest in keeping horses that can no longer compete. These GFF type breeders have not actually owned and competed the horses they now make money off of. It’s like a get rich quick scheme. Maybe if these folks actually footed the bills, and suffered through all it takes to make a successful performance career, they might value things a bit differently. At the very least, they might stop collecting more horses when they already have more horses than they can afford to care for. We have no respect for any of them, we see them as parasites…
[QUOTE=Cartier;6777706]
If you are a total novice you might purchase a breeding stallion – without checking the condition of the stallion and the quality of his semen. An experienced breeder would not. If you are new to horses, if you just fell off the turnip truck, you might purchase a stallion that has been in JBs care… and expect to be received with flowers and warm wishes for great success in making $$$ off the stallion. RSF is not new to this situation… at the very least she understood what was going on, she has even posted on this thread. She knew how her conduct would come across. What she is doing is a big “f_ck you” for those who have stepped up to help and she knows it. Defending what she did is insulting to those who have stepped up… and gave from their pocket books simply because it was the right thing to do, with no benefit for themselves. For the very reasons that ponyponyponi stated, what RSF did is offensive, plain and simple. I would claim authorship of ponyponyponi’s post if I could.
With respect to GFF and those like her, what we have seen over the years is a group of financially marginalized breeders, with stars in their eyes, who manage to get a hold of retired mares - who have some show record. They then use the glossy photos of previous performance success to make up a website and impress the public. Look at GFF’s website. I can think of others. It is a business model that preys on a naïve public and exploits mare owners who haven’t the room or the interest in keeping horses that can no longer compete. These GFF type breeders have not actually owned and competed the horses they now make money off of. It’s like a get rich quick scheme. Maybe if these folks actually footed the bills, and suffered through all it takes to make a successful performance career, they might value things a bit differently. At the very least, they might stop collecting more horses when they already have more horses than they can afford to care for. We have no respect for any of them, we see them as parasites…[/QUOTE]
^^^^
THIS.
^^^^
This.
So if someone who doesn’t breed places a successful, retired performance mare in a breeding home, that is bad? If they turn her out to live out her life with cookies and pats, American breeders are not able to use improved bloodlines going forward. Are you all willing to damn the whole lot because GFF is a disaster? Has anyone else that has purchased a horse from Jill been vilified? Wasnt everyone glad that the rest got new homes? Even as small time as I am, I have bought horse sight unseen and certainly people breed successfully all the time off video, performance records or other offspring to stallions they will never set eyes on. Not just in the sporthorses world.
AHEM!!!
http://www.legup-auction.org/cgi-bin/auction.pl?category=stallions
Just in case we’ve forgotten what we’re trying to do here.
Wow - so it’s totally offensive to buy a nice stallion that is a good fit with your breeding program? And even worse for the stallion to be put into a good and ethical breeding program where mare owners will have access to him and trust they are getting what they paid for? Yes, I can certainly understand the shock and horror displayed by certain posters here. (insert giant eye roll).
Well, if nothing else, this thread has served to further my “wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole” list of stallions and their owners. The list might start with Jill but it sure isn’t finishing there.
I have to say, this thread has prompted me to report posts to moderators for the first time ever.
At first I was really… shocked by the purchase of Romantic Star. Why would such a well regarded breeder get involved in this? I have a friend whose opinion I really trust who does business with Rhonda on a regular basis, so I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Strange to say on a JB thread but I do trust her judgement re: her ethics.
What if Rhonda has just always been a fan of Romantic Star, watched him for years but knew JB would be asking an astronomical price (Didn’t someone say she wanted a couple hundred thousand for RW?). After hearing how things were declining, she finally decided she had to at least ask and was surprised to get a number she could work with. Probably had a vet out to see him, probably test his motility to make sure he was fertile still, got a health certificate (I got one same day on a horse that was in pretty poor shape to ship from FL to NJ… I had rescued him maybe a month before and this vet knew me and this horse since day 1), and was ready to go when JB calls her and says he was injured. And then everything we already know happened.
It is possible nothing shady has happened, bad timing. On the one hand I don’t like the idea of JB getting any money, on the other it is like buying a horse off a broker lot or a dog or horse from a backyard breeder. Yeah we don’t want to reward that person however on an individual basis… the horse deserves/needs an upgrade. I am glad he got one.
At first I was really… shocked by the purchase of Romantic Star. Why would such a well regarded breeder get involved in this? I have a friend whose opinion I really trust who does business with Rhonda on a regular basis, so I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Strange to say on a JB thread but I do trust her judgement re: her ethics.
What if Rhonda has just always been a fan of Romantic Star, watched him for years but knew JB would be asking an astronomical price (Didn’t someone say she wanted a couple hundred thousand for RW?). After hearing how things were declining, she finally decided she had to at least ask and was surprised to get a number she could work with. Probably had a vet out to see him, probably test his motility to make sure he was fertile still, got a health certificate (I got one same day on a horse that was in pretty poor shape to ship from FL to NJ… I had rescued him maybe a month before and this vet knew me and this horse since day 1), and was ready to go when JB calls her and says he was injured. And then everything we already know happened.
It is possible nothing shady has happened, bad timing. On the one hand I don’t like the idea of JB getting any money, on the other it is like buying a horse off a broker lot or a dog or horse from a backyard breeder. Yeah we don’t want to reward that person however on an individual basis… the horse deserves/needs an upgrade. I am glad he got one.
Just as a general point, knowledgeable people are often wisely reluctant to get involved in anything that might smack of selling off assets to avoid existing creditors.
The courts are sometimes interested in such transactions.
Not saying that is happening here – just thinking out loud.
Paramount concern is welfare of the horses.
The rest is an ugly mess.
Wow - I was at the barn all day yesterday (GORGEOUS day in GA!), and missed all the latest on this forum.
I am rather shocked to see how the thread has gone from vilifying JillB/GFF to vilifying Ronda S/ Rising Star Farm. How some posters can lump the two into the same category is beyond me. 
FWIW - Ronda S isn’t the only stallion owner hoping to end up with one or more of those stallions… From what I have heard, there are/were several SO’s involved in trying to pry the stallions away from JillB/GFF (and some of them are quite well known). Some of these SOs have been working on it for some time, hoping JillB would come to her senses about how dire her situation was, and that she would finally accept reasonable offers for the stallions. And if Romantic Star had been “promised” by JillB (or even MHS) to another SO, then I can see how that SO would be plenty mad about Ronda being successful in acquiring him. OTOH, he hasn’t shipped yet, so there may be more to unfold in the coming days.
At the end of the day, I don’t care who obtains him - or any of the other horses - as long as they are people who will do right by the animals, and whose business ethics are on the up and up.
You’re ever the class act, eh Cartier? 
What I’ve learned from this thread is:
- If you think horses are in a bad situation, never try to buy them from the neglectful or hoarding owner.
- Neglect and hoarding cases should just stay put until animal control can seize them all.
- If you buy from a bad breeder/hoarder, you’re contributing to the problem.
- There is a space on interstate shipping certificates to note body condition score. Horses can’t be shipped unless they’re above some secret level.
- Nobody buys or breeds to a horse without seeing it in the flesh first.
- If a horse is underweight and in a neglectful situation, in addition to never buying it, you should also never buy it until the neglectful owner fattens it up.
Conclusions: Government (ie, animal control) is always the answer. Never buy a horse from craigslist, New Holland, Camelot, etc. because you’re just aiding and abetting the bad seller.
I’ll just sit on my hooves and wait for the Marin County Humane Society equine fire sale in a couple of months, like a lot of the other breeders posting here.
