Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

The most important thing that has come up today is that the local DA is now investigating. So all of you who have been defrauded, scammed, and suffered larceny by trick should get your ducks in a row. Possibly MHS sent the sad stories that it had received to him/her. This could mean she gets shut down completely. If it were I, I’d call and just leave my name and contact information and a statement of willingness to do what I could to help. You could probably leave it with a secretary without speaking to an investigator.

BTW, JB’s attorney of record on the vet declaration at least is Robert Weems, not Maggie Weems. I didn’t check to see who signed the petition for mandamus.

“Another stallion jumped two six foot fences to get to Romantic Star.” Wonder which one. I’d like a breeding to him :wink:

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;6787296]
Porta is a Trakehner who was listed for sale on Warmbloods for sale on 11/2009 by http://www.castell-trakehner.webs.com/[/QUOTE]

She is a 2006 Trakehner mare
by LeonidasPg out Parousia vom Castell by Avignon II

[QUOTE=Marieke;6787265]
That is a pretty sad vet rapport, those horses are not doing well. Perhaps not in immediate danger, this is not a good situation. It won’t take much for an atty to turn that into favor of the MHS. Most of it, when explained by an expert, is actually in favor of the MHS.

For one, she notes her observations, but also her ‘hear say’ without providing That she has verified this information through receipts, purchase orders etc.
.[/QUOTE]

Having been hired by Jill Burnell (and/or Jill’s attorney), it would be unlikely that the vet would ask for receipts or any other “proof”.

She apparently took Jill at her word, and to paraphrase, advised her that the really skinny ones must need dental care if they were being fed as Jill said.
And that’s all she wrote (so to speak…) Unable to catch some horses and giving them the all clear (because they could run?) does seem odd.

Asking for proof that the horses have been eating properly and aren’t thin because of poor dentition would be the job of whomever legally represents the MHS, not the vet hired by Jill Burnell, and at this point in time, the MHS is unlikely to be in a position to do so.

The MHS released photos of Devil’s Sis, and now her breeder is waiting to take her back to a loving home. I wonder if they will release pictures of the other two mares so that concerned parties could do a little sleuthing and figure out who they are and let their prior connections know where they are. They may want to help or get involved.

I hope Blaze landed somewhere safe if MHS didn’t get him out. In the Maine case that I mentioned, the farm owners knew what was coming and made a lot of the worst cases disappear ahead of time. I was told the farm killed them themselves. But who knows, it may be a good idea to check the feedlots out in CA.

Just a another note. I have an F250 with a 6’6" bed. The most hay bales that I’ve ever been able to haul in it is 24. Bales are hybrid bermuda and each weighed about 60 lbs. So I’ve personally never been able to haul more than 1500 lbs of hay in my truck. Horses who are not working (and not pregnant) should get 2% of their body weight in high quality hay every day if they are not being supplemented with grain. If one says that the horses probably should average about 1100 pounds each (taking account of the big ones and the babies to arrive at such an average), that means that at 22 lbs per horse one truck load as hauled by my truck would feed 65 and 1/2 horses for one day.

The rules for alfalfa may be less than 2%. I’ve never relied on alfalfa as anything more than a supplement.

But if you know how much a bale of alfalfa at the normal Northern California price goes for, you can easily figure out that hay for that many horses would put a lot of people in the poorhouse, including me.

I also hope if anyone has any GFF horses in their possession that they pull a JB on JB and don’t give them back to her! Seriously, people do it all the time when board is not paid on said horses.

After reading Dr. Ellis’s submission - I’m even more frustrated. She accepted the fact that JB claimed to give vaccinations - but never asked for any paperwork on that. With respect to JB’s worming program. We would NEVER worm a foal every month. It’s toxic for them AND can create resistence to wormers. We only worm 2x a year with Strongid and ivermectin. We do fecals if we have any concerns.
Regarding the comment on the hay. We currently have 20 horses/foals on our farm and a pick up truck of bales of hay wouldn’t even last a week. And our horses are out in grass pastures at least 7 hours a day in the winter. And they all come into stalls and have grain. The Vet writes that broodmares were getting 4 flakes - how the hell are they supposed to exist on that? This Vet must be a complete bone head. I just hope Marin County moves on all the other violations on the property and MHS moves to take all the horses as soon as possible.
I cringe to think of the last property she was at and how many pathogens are on that land after seeing the photos that started this thread.

[QUOTE=Toadie’s mom;6787348]
“Another stallion jumped two six foot fences to get to Romantic Star.” Wonder which one. I’d like a breeding to him ;)[/QUOTE]

I was wondering about this earlier. If the only other stallion on the property was Federalist…does anyone really think a 20 year old in poor condition jumped two 6’ fences and had the energy to savage another stallion (who OF COURSE like the others was in perfectly acceptable condition) badly enough to keep him hospitalized for weeks? That’s IF he were the only other stallion at the time. And if there was a fight at all.

[QUOTE=RedMare01;6787391]
I was wondering about this earlier. If the only other stallion on the property was Federalist…does anyone really think a 20 year old in poor condition jumped two 6’ fences and had the energy to savage another stallion (who OF COURSE like the others was in perfectly acceptable condition) badly enough to keep him hospitalized for weeks? That’s IF he were the only other stallion at the time. And if there was a fight at all.[/QUOTE]

Not sure if it’s ever been confirmed but have heard it was Aloha who attacked RS. The vet who did the eval came after that date so assuming stallions left after the fight.

[QUOTE=horsenut93136;6787394]
Not sure if it’s ever been confirmed but have heard it was Aloha who attacked RS. The vet who did the eval came after that date so assuming stallions left after the fight.[/QUOTE]

Not that I believe the entirety of the fight story i.e timeline etc this photo of her place shows one of the stallions pens and who knows who was inhabiting it but it is cleary in bad shape with bent and broken pipes etc

I believe that is Aloha next door perhaps he did not jump anything who knows if the wires in his pen were hot he could have busted through them and gotten to RS in a similar manner.

http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/userfiles/files/Jill%20and%20Alexander%20Burnell_Page_04.jpg

FWIW, if I fed 4 flakes of alfalfa to any of my horses they would be extremely obese! Many barns start at 1 flake of alfalfa am and 1 pm though they mainly have Arabs and QH. I only feed 1 flake of alfalfa and 3 flakes of orchard or Timothy per day and all mine are admittedly on the fat side. You have to consider we have MUCH bigger bale and flake sizes than what is standard back east. Currently, around here, a bale of alfalfa is just under $20, while Timothy or orchard are $24 - $25 per bale.

But, not sure if science has proven otherwise, but while I was raising youngsters an all alfalfa diet was a big no-no.

Lastly, if a vet is using the BCS scale and rating a number based on the exact description of what warrants a given number… But in her opinion still personally would use the adjective “thin” isn’t so crazy to me. Just as one person’s description of a horse who looks good would be considered obese by another. And the last picture we saw of Redwine a few months ago, he was quite the fatty while the other stallion was slightly ribby.

The issue with the alfalfa is that it is high in calcium. We don’t feed it at all. But given the comments about the size of flakes etc. It still doesn’t matter if the horses are NOT getting proper grazing and grain and they are clearly not. The bales out on the ground are not protected against weather and several people have commented about wet weather conditions - so that hay on the ground must be a mess. I say a prayer for JB’S horses every day when I look at mine and they are fit and in good weight, get good turn out and proper vaccinations, etc. Especially the mares in foal.

[QUOTE=MagicRoseFarm;6786955]
I am sickened by this whole debaucle. I refrain from posting at COTH most of the time because it is such a train wreck and everything said is taken as having an underlying current.

I am the breeder ( my mother’s name is on the papers) of the mare Diamonette, whom was sold as a 5 year old. Attached to her papers when I sold her at age 5 was a request to be contacted should she ever deem unsound as a competition horse and a home needed.
I did manage to track her somewhat through her USEF show records, but later lost track of her until she came into possession of the breeder Irish Hills Farm, who then sold her to Jill at age 16, despite her promise never to sell her and to return her to me when retired. Many of our past daughters became broodmares at some point in life, and I have tried to help rehome some of those, I guess they have all been lucky to get great homes.

While I hope all of these horses land softly, I am sick with worry and hope that , at 20 years old, Diamonette can come home to retire if she does not quickly find a totally ideal situation.

I sincerely hope that whoever ends up with her, or any of the mares, let the previous breeders ( or owners) know that they are in caring hands once again.[/QUOTE]

Since your first post on this thread, this story has haunted me. If you can find a way to get her, I can help “underground railroad” her through Colorado, on her way back to you.

[QUOTE=skydy;6787364]
Having been hired by Jill Burnell (and/or Jill’s attorney), it would be unlikely that the vet would ask for receipts or any other “proof”.

She apparently took Jill at her word, and to paraphrase, advised her that the really skinny ones must need dental care if they were being fed as Jill said.
And that’s all she wrote (so to speak…) Unable to catch some horses and giving them the all clear (because they could run?) does seem odd.

Asking for proof that the horses have been eating properly and aren’t thin because of poor dentition would be the job of whomever legally represents the MHS, not the vet hired by Jill Burnell, and at this point in time, the MHS is unlikely to be in a position to do so.[/QUOTE]

Not unless her reputation as an expert witness is important to her.

The MHS can subpoena her records and bills in discovery.

Originally Posted by DownYonder
FWIW, someone just pointed out to me that Dr. Ellis just received her DVM in 2010. I am thinking it may be far easier for someone like JillB to blow smoke up the a** of a fairly recent grad then a vet with many years experience.

And in reading through her report, I am struck by how many horses she noted as in serious need of dental work. Really makes me wonder if JillB used the poor dental condition of those horses as an excuse for their poor body condition.

[QUOTE=sid;6787221]
Well that may well be. But in the end the owner of a horse or horses should not be excused for “ignorance” of all their care. What…blame the dentist of lack of one. Geesh. Do you blame no feed because the hay or grain wasn’t delivered on time? That is a victim state of mind, and often you can see this with people who have no more money.

Very clever defense, but ignorance or creating a defense of ignorance doesn’t cut it. Not with someone so "experienced’ with horses and breeding that was the CV that was out there and is being expounded upon by her own court papers.

Clearly she thinks she knows better than anyone else. And that IS a bug that plagues horse people.

In this case the ego will hopefully fail. It is what it is. Even a non horse person can see that. Power and facade gone wild, with the scoring on the USET for the unsuspecting to buy hook line and sinker.

In that defense, they look at the horses they see in front of them as they should. The horse nor the owner that was “able” to get that progeny should be punished from where that horse came.

But these offenses, terrible offenses, in the horse world should be announced before things like this go on and on and on.[/QUOTE]

Let’s be clear here. I am in NO WAY condoning JillB. I think she is one seriously f***** up chick - not only because of the way she “cares” for her horses and dogs and PARENTS (let’s not forget her elderly parents, who lived in that rat hole of a house on the former property - thank God they are out of there), but also because of her utter lack of regard for honesty, good ethics, good business practices, etc. (And also not excusing her husband, who has been her partner in crime in all this.)

But I can certainly envision a scenario like this:
Vet: This horse is thin. Her teeth really need some work.
JillB: Hmm, I put a lot of hay in that horse’s pasture. I guess she just can’t chew as well as the others. I will get someone out to do some dental work, then she will be okay.

Vet: This horse is also thin, and her teeth are not in good shape.
Jill B: Really? I had everyone done last year. But then, I wasn’t really happy with that dentist’s work and am planning to use someone else this year.

Vet: This horse is too thin, and her teeth are terrible.
Jill B: I just got that one not too long ago. I will put her on the list for the dentist.

And so it goes. (Don’t forget, she is a master at blowing smoke.)

But let us not be under any illusion here. JillB won’t go to jail for her neglect/abuse of the animals. It will be the CRIMINAL ACTIVITY (theft, fraud, etc.) that will put her in jail, but that means her victims have to pursue the cases legally. I hope there are enough of them out there who are angry enough to go after her and not just walk away because it is too much trouble.

Let’s be realistic here and say it is quite unlikely that teeth are the culprit for a hrose being so thin that the localanimal control had to seize them. It doesn’t take much other than quality feed to keep a horse healthy, shiney and in relatively good weight. Quality of forage is everything and lets be honest with ourselves and look at the big picture: we know how Jill Burnell lives, we’ve seen the pictures of her previous house, we’ve seen how her dogs and horses are currently living.

It’s not exactly pretty and it’s not what we should be expecting from someone who paints a picture to the industry that she’s operating a stand-up breeding operation of top quality warmbloods. Because of the reputation she’s created for herself; it’s highly unlikely that she is doing “well” financially in her business and therefore it’s highly, highly unlikely that the horses are recieving the quality feed and care they should be recieving. Actually; we already have proof of that with the condition of the horses who were siezed.

We already know there is no buildings on the property and therfore there is no dry storage for grain or hay. This leads me to the conclusion that it’s going to require a LOT of work just to physically bring feed to the horses in the amount and quality that they require to stay in good condition. Because of this excessive amount of work; this leads me to believe that the horses are not recieving adequate care and feed to maintain body condition.

I’m not one to jump to conclusions but I can see her trucking in the cheapest hay/round bales she can find and setting them in paddocks to rot and get rained on for weeks until it’s been “consumed”. We all know that horses are not cattle; they are finicky about hay quality and they will not maintain body condition on rotten, straw-like, or rain-soaked hay that’s been sitting outside in a feeder for weeks. Horses, especially warmbloods (in my experience) would much rather not eat than attempt to consume less than stellar quality forage with zero nutritional quality at all.

In addition, forage hay is only as nutritional as the soil it is in grown in. If a soil is not regularly maintained; the forage is going to lack the nutrients in the soil. In our part of the country;the soil is severely lacking selenium which is one major nutrient missing in the hay (which must be supplimented for elsewhere). Hay, especially low quality or mediocre quality (we all can see that Jill is not spending the money to buy quality stuff), is not a sufficent source of nutrients for a horse, especially a warmblood, to sustain off of. A grain is a necessity to make up for what is lacking and adds the necessary energies needed to sustain body condition for a horse of that size. This is much more than a “teeth” issue.

There has been many personal complaints from buyers, visitors to her farm, etc about the care her animals recieve. One look at the pictures of her house/lab/etc is a major clue into how Jill operates; there is no emotional attachments to her broodmares or stallions. They are machines for her to make major income off of inflated prices for foals and offspring because of other’s success in the showring with her stallions’ offpspring. It’s like a puppy mill for top quality show horses (thats the only comparison I have right now).

She does not care about her lab cleanliness or the fact that she put many, many mares at risk for infections and disease; the only thing she cared about was the fact that she was able to collect the product; process it with little investment and care, and collect the huge stud fee to profit from. If she actually cared about the customer and their mare; we all know her lab and the conditions of her stallions would not be in the condition notedmy photographs.

Same goes for the foals: personal accounts from buyers who have recieved foals/horses in poor health, extremely lacking nutrients and quality care, became sick upon arrival- these accounts from buyers are numerous (some have been posted here). In all reality; do you think, judging by everything we know right now) that she really cares about the broodmares she has or the foals they produce every year? Like I noted above; lets look at how puppy mill’s operate and look at how many comparisons we have here. The only thing she cares about is keeping it alive until she can collect an astronimical sales price for it and move it along. Then she profits from the success that the new owner’s have after all of the work they put into the animal to get it on the right track and into the show ring.

Jill Burnell has NOT become well-known and developed a profitable (but shady) business because she, herself, grew the foals, trained them, conditioned them, and showed them at the shows. She profited from everyone else’s success with foals by her stallions and she did this through stealing professional pictures and illegally posting them all over her websites for her own profits (and not removing them when requested multiple times).

The entire scenario is really sad and when I see how her business is currently being operated (photographic evidence) I can’t help but shake my head in absolute dispicable shame. My heart aches for those horses because in all honesty; she does not care, and she fails to realize and care about the type of quality animals living under her care. The photo of the dogs makes me cringe with anger. Why wern’t the dogs removed from the property?

It’s sad stuff but everyone, including Marin Humane needs to, hopefully, get their ducks in a row and be ready to state their case. Going over the details, even as much as the nutritional stuff I went over above, is a necessity. Non-animal folks really don’t have the knowledge for that type of information and what it takes in care to maintain proper, acceptable body condition and this is why; when in a court of law for these cases; all of the bases need to be covered to educate and strain the importance of quality care. Horses don’t need to live in a million dollar barn with 20 grooms, daily baths, and 50.00 bales of hay to recieve quality care; that’s not the point; at all.

Any person owning horses should have the above knowledge to properly care for the animals you own; this isn’t rocket science: it’s the basic guidelines for caring for livestock. If you can’t follow those details; then you shouldn’t own animals: you’re not caring for them the way that’s necessary for them to LIVE. That is the bottom line.

[QUOTE=TKR;6786690]
This is such a baffling situation to me – apparently, this woman – Jill Burnell - had sufficient funds to buy and import several stallions, advertise and show some of them, buy mares and then she just drops the ball and lets them starve? Is she a headcase or what? Why would she invest in all of this and let it go so far south? Is she now broke? I know that’s all personal questions, but the condition of the horses and the history (that I know) just beg the questions. Carry on!
PennyG[/QUOTE]

There is this thing called getting in over your head. Clearly this woman has never known how to stop or the line when a good thing becomes an issue.

She is more than willing to defraud people to get what she wants, that is how the showing and buying and such works. When the house of cards start to fall and you can not get your feed and training and such for free anymore then the issues start.

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6787217]
Someone who knows how to stack bales can get a ton of hay on a pick up. (Amazing but true).

That is 2000#. MY horses get 20 - 25 pounds of hay a day (plus feed and supplements). Say JB’s horses are getting 20 pounds each/day x 30 horses = 600 pounds a day are being fed. At that rate, the hay will be gone in 3.33 days.

If JB is feeding only 10 pounds of hay/day (oh my, it makes me sad to even type those words), that means the hay will last a week. Please, someone report back how soon more hay is delivered…

I am also questioning that she is feeding alfalfa hay. No way can horses who are that malnourished process such a rich type of hay. It would be like giving a starving man a full roast beef dinner with a rich desert. It would go right through them and give then terrible diarrhea (sp?). Orchard grass or timothy would be more appropriate.

If the horses are NOT getting alfalfa, but a medium rich hay more suited to their precarious condition, then whoever reported the truck contained alfalfa (a) is not a horseperson, or (b) is not reporting accurately for some other reason.[/QUOTE]

The horses were being fed alfalfa when I was there. We knew that in October when we were there that the ‘roads’ would not allow for hay to be brought in once the rain started. We were even questioning if she would be able to push a wheelbarrow around the property.

Auction Updates

Auction Items Closing This Evening, Fri Jan 18 2013:
[SUP](Note that auction closes at time indicated or approximately 5 minutes after last bid)
[/SUP]
21:10:00 EST 1 Custom Decorated Horse Shoe
21:25:00 EST 1 Breeding to the KWPN stallion, Palladio
21:40:00 EST 1 breeding to the Welsh stallion, Fox Cry Rose Cufflinks
21:55:00 EST 1 Breeding to the German Riding Pony stallion, Duke of Clarence
22:10:00 EST 1 breeding to the Welsh Sec A Stallion, Heavenly Final Revelation

Items We Have Added Today
Custom Equine or Canine Pencil Portrait
Chinese Treasure Giant Panda print. by Charles Frace
2 Lessons with Heather Bailey or John Strassburger of Phoenix Farm

Tally to Date/Time of Posting

[table=“width: 70%, class: grid, align: center”]
[tr]
[td]Date[/td]
[td]Total
Winning
Bids[/td]
[td]Payments Received to Date
[SUP](Google Checkout, PayPal or other payment commissions not deducted)[/SUP][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]January 10, 2013[/td]
[td]$2,124.00[/td]
[td]$1,524[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]January 11, 2013[/td]
[td]$2,110.00[/td]
[td]$910[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]January 12, 2013[/td]
[td]$1,805.00[/td]
[td]$745[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]January 13, 2013[/td]
[td]$1,755.00[/td]
[td]$990[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]January 14, 2013[/td]
[td]$2,980.00[/td]
[td]$1,730[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]January 15, 2013[/td]
[td]$1,290.00[/td]
[td]$960[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]January 16, 2013[/td]
[td]$3,515.00[/td]
[td]$400[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]January 17, 2013[/td]
[td]$1,650.00[/td]
[td]$420[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]TOTALS:[/td]
[td]$17,229.00[/td]
[td]$7,679[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]