Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[PINE_TREE_FARM_SC]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;6795248]
I really hope you are smarter in real life than what you type…if there is any lesson to be learned through all of this mess (and I would at least hope that there is) it would be that people need to check, and then double check when it comes to buying anything sight unseen from someone who has less than a stellar reputation.

If this lesson fails, people like Jill Burnell will continue to come out of the woodwork, preying on those who may be niave to their practices, but most of all, failing the horses in their care who have absoloutely no voice or recourse in the situation.

We are no longer “speculating” on Jills horse keeping practices, nor are we drinking the kool aid and thinking that these accusations about her are coming from jealous stallion owners. We are also not speculating that she has had a few of the top professionals suing for non-payment for services, etc.

If you know where and whom you are buying horses, foals, or in utero foals from thats great, there is no need to be a little paranoid and double check. If there is a shadow of a doubt than you would be a fool (yes I said it) to fork over your cash and hope for the best.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, someone would take the bait. People who are not smart :)don’t take the bait.

Your post(s) did not specify the JB situation in particular. Instead you have posted as a general statement that applies to all.

Way too much tin foil hats on this thread.

[horsenut93136]

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;6795822]
DMK I think the cliche “Fool me once shame on you Fool me twice shame on me” is applicable here.

The statements made are conditional based upon past, current and sadly I’m sure future evidence that has been compiled against Mrs. Burnell.

As per Horsenut’s statement about “majority were very happy”. How are you so certain? When it has been discussed , proven and re proven over the course of 212 pages that her website and its list of sale/sold horses available in utero’s, mares and even purchasers is nothing more then a elaborate tapestry with some fragments of truth , some fantasy and out right lies, all woven together in order to create the illusion of grandeur.

I think that those that purchase horses from her for whatever reason are certainly more then free to do so. However I would also expect even prior to this particular thread that there has been enough FACTUAL evidence provided that anyone expecting to do business with her and hoping for a positive outcome without providing their own fail safes certainly would have earned a few adjectives to describe their naiveté.

We are not talking about buying horses sight unseen from a breeder or establishment of good repute. The discussion is about doing business with Jill Burnell.[/QUOTE]

ok should have qualified my statement. MOST people on this board whether they hate JB or not are happy with their babies. I say this based on the number of them posted on FB pages, winning classes etc etc. Yes some have said they received their purchase in poor shape and I believe there was one that was injured. But in percentages I’d say she’s doing well despite herself.

as for fictional purchases etc, I think you only need to look at USEF, FB, to know that there really are quite a few purchases. If you are suggesting she only REALLY sold a few and the rest are made up that doesn’t fly.

There were quite a few making a general statement about people being foolish buying inutero or site unseen, they were not directing it only at people who bought from JB.

[lauriep]

Prior to this year, I found few, if any problems with her sale announcements on the website, or breedings that didn’t actually take place. These particular problems seem to have really cropped up this year, especially the last 6-9 months. She has sold a HUGE number of babies, and, as the poster above noted, percentage wise, there have been very few unhappy WITH THE HORSES. With other aspects of her business, certainly. But she has not gone six years lying on her website.

No defense, just a reality check.

[Acertainsmile]

Wow, some of you just don’t get it, or are lost in the reading for comprehension aspect of it all. Amazing!

As far as “taking the bait”, really not sure what you are referring too, as I am not “on the hook” for anything. I am not owed a horse, breeding, unborn foal from JB, nada.

Yes, I made some general statements regarding buying anything from a less than reputable person. And I stand by that, whether it be a horse, dog, car you name it. And yes, I did add Jill Burnells name to the mix, because that is actually the person being named over and over and even over in this thread.

I have zero conspiracy theory, I just go by what I see. A woman who supposably purchased a stallion, but to date still doesnt have any information on him. This isn’t heresay, she’s posted about it on her FB page. I suppose instead of saying that she doesnt have any information, she could always update and say she does, but can’t post about it.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;6795761]
Besides the frying of JB, isn’t that kind of what this entire thread is about?[/QUOTE]

“Worry” was the kindest motive I could think of for such obsessive concern, because what this thread is about, other than JB (which it is barely about any more), is dragging anyone tangentially related to the issue through the muck. But concerns for others learning a valuable life lesson when it comes to buying a breeding stallion is another possibility, I suppose. But so is being too cute by half.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;6795901]
Wow, some of you just don’t get it, or are lost in the reading for comprehension aspect of it all. Amazing!

As far as “taking the bait”, really not sure what you are referring too, as I am not “on the hook” for anything. I am not owed a horse, breeding, unborn foal from JB, nada.

Yes, I made some general statements regarding buying anything from a less than reputable person. And I stand by that, whether it be a horse, dog, car you name it. And yes, I did add Jill Burnells name to the mix, because that is actually the person being named over and over and even over in this thread.

I have zero conspiracy theory, I just go by what I see. A woman who supposably purchased a stallion, but to date still doesnt have any information on him. This isn’t heresay, she’s posted about it on her FB page. I suppose instead of saying that she doesnt have any information, she could always update and say she does, but can’t post about it.[/QUOTE]

After her treatment here, I would bet her updates will be few and far between.

[Lynnwood]

I guess the bottom line Laurie , DMK, etc is WHY defend her at all? Years ago people who have equal respect in the business warned of something being NQR and over the last say 6 years using the number you’ve quoted the % of poor business issues and poor horse care has been on a steady rise.

Why defend her at all ? Do you think the picture of the starved mare … or where her in laws were being housed …or the money she to owes god knows who at this point deserve a defense ?

If anything Laurie the very fact that her quasii ponzi scheme has degraded to the point that even people like yourself who at one time was a business associate and a stalwart defender have been left holding the tab should be enough to just let the defending go.

She is a smart women who had/has nice stallions and nice mares and by all accounts had all the pieces to make a really successful mark in the business. It was her choices and actions that have caused her decent into the current. None of it is defensible.

The rest of the arguing back and forth is just trying to pick fly shit out of the pepper.

[Acertainsmile]

[QUOTE=DMK;6795918]
“Worry” was the kindest motive I could think of for such obsessive concern, because what this thread is about, other than JB (which it is barely about any more), is dragging anyone tangentially related to the issue through the muck. But concerns for others learning a valuable life lesson when it comes to buying a breeding stallion is another possibility, I suppose. But so is being too cute by half.[/QUOTE]

While I agree that there were some conspiracy theories (and mudslinging) about RS, being hidden, someone doing a favor for JB, etc. I can assure you that those statements didn’t come from me, go back and do some fact checking. What you call “obsessive” is me trying to drive a point home to some obviously very thick individuals who for whatever reason just can’t seem to grasp a very simple concept. And that was me stating that in the nicest way possible.

Am I the least bit concerened about people buying horses, dogs, cars or anything from a reputable person? Nope! Just trying to point out again that this is clearly not the case here.

[Dead_Lame]

@Acertainsmile;6795901

supposably

AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

[DMK]

I guess the bottom line Laurie , DMK, etc is WHY defend her at all? Years ago people who have equal respect in the business warned of something being NQR and over the last say 6 years using the number you’ve quoted the % of poor business issues and poor horse care has been on a steady rise.

Seriously??? Again, showing limited ability to keep up or read, take your pick.

FFS, NOBODY, I REPEAT, NOBODY… least of all, LaurieP and myself is defending JB. The furthest thing from it. <head desk head desk head desk>.

What we object to is dragging everyone else through the muck based on little more than idiotic invented claims of conspiracies or collusion, compounded with idle gossip, damaging speculation or anything else along those lines. Facts? Not so much.

Personally I think JB needs to be out of the business one way or another. I’d like it to be through legal transfer/sale of her remaining stock because that is what is best for all of the animals. I also think anyone who is doing their job as it relates to this case deserves the respect and consideration of not being raked over the internet coals for their efforts.

You want to call JB a starving hoarder, have at it.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;6795901]
I suppose instead of saying that she doesnt have any information, she could always update and say she does, but can’t post about it.[/QUOTE]

Oh yes, I am sure that would be met with nary an internet peep. Based on the hysterical idiocy of many and the targeted agendas of a few, I’m sure posting something like that would just make the whole thing settle right down and we would all sing kumbaya and roast marshmallows. I think you should email her with that suggestion. And for a follow up, maybe ask the vet to elaborate on what she thinks about dental care as an excuse. I can see how that would just set everyone’s mind at ease.

#livinginapipedream

[lauriep]

Lynwood you do what you have to do, I will do what I see fit. I see no defense in introducing actual FACTS back into the mix, for no other reason than to put a check on the rampant speculation. I find it unacceptable to ignore facts just to continue the ongoing into the Twilight Zone. There have been enough stories presented here, accepted as fact, without continuing to extrapolate incorrectly. But, as I said, do as you like.

[Acertainsmile]

[QUOTE=DMK;6795990]
Oh yes, I am sure that would be met with nary an internet peep. Based on the hysterical idiocy of many and the targeted agendas of a few, I’m sure posting something like that would just make the whole thing settle right down and we would all sing kumbaya and roast marshmallows. I think you should email her with that suggestion. And for a follow up, maybe ask the vet to elaborate on what she thinks about dental care as an excuse. I can see how that would just set everyone’s mind at ease.

#livinginapipedream[/QUOTE]

The truth will set you free…

[horsenut93136]

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;6795923]
I guess the bottom line Laurie , DMK, etc is WHY defend her at all? Years ago people who have equal respect in the business warned of something being NQR and over the last say 6 years using the number you’ve quoted the % of poor business issues and poor horse care has been on a steady rise.

Why defend her at all ? Do you think the picture of the starved mare … or where her in laws were being housed …or the money she to owes god knows who at this point deserve a defense ?

If anything Laurie the very fact that her quasii ponzi scheme has degraded to the point that even people like yourself who at one time was a business associate and a stalwart defender have been left holding the tab should be enough to just let the defending go.

She is a smart women who had/has nice stallions and nice mares and by all accounts had all the pieces to make a really successful mark in the business. It was her choices and actions that have caused her decent into the current. None of it is defensible.

The rest of the arguing back and forth is just trying to pick fly shit out of the pepper.[/QUOTE]

The picture of the mare made me sick. But if you are now saying this means that we can attribute ANYTHING to JB. Any act of cruelty etc. and just be ok with that?

I love how it becomes arguing back and forth when reality is mentioned. Facts from the start on this thread were few and so many bashed for trying to point them out. MOST of them NEVER trying to “defend” but rather to enlighten. But it seems that that just doesn’t go over well with some. Why bother muddying the waters with fact when you can put her on trial for all crimes.

[DMK]

The truth will set you free…

If that worked in real life it’s possible there might even be peace in the Middle East and the internets would be a much more rational place. Human nature lets us see the world not as it is, but as we are.

[3Dogs]

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;6795923]
I guess the bottom line Laurie , DMK, etc is WHY defend her at all? Years ago people who have equal respect in the business warned of something being NQR and over the last say 6 years using the number you’ve quoted the % of poor business issues and poor horse care has been on a steady rise.

Why defend her at all ? Do you think the picture of the starved mare … or where her in laws were being housed …or the money she to owes god knows who at this point deserve a defense ?

If anything Laurie the very fact that her quasii ponzi scheme has degraded to the point that even people like yourself who at one time was a business associate and a stalwart defender have been left holding the tab should be enough to just let the defending go.

She is a smart women who had/has nice stallions and nice mares and by all accounts had all the pieces to make a really successful mark in the business. It was her choices and actions that have caused her decent into the current. None of it is defensible.

The rest of the arguing back and forth is just trying to pick fly shit out of the pepper.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Lynwood! I don’t know DMKs history, I do know Lauriep’s with GFF. What IS there to defend ? How short are all your memories? The joy of the Internet is that the facts were coming out years ago. All caught in the immortality of the Internet. Then things got really awful, not just sorta kinda awful!

[BaroquePony]

Lots of people get burned in this type of situation and many simialr situations. Those people often have money to spend, but they get tired of all the problems.

Whatever the issues are, I do think it is important to find reasonable methoods of putting a stop to things like this situation.

I don’t think that is undable, but it does need some ideas and thinking through.

[sid]

It’s discouraging to see the incredible “splitting of hairs” on every single subject, every single opinion of others’ posts and personal quibbling and attacks on motives for posting that has taken this thread “way out there”. In fact, it’s way beyond me and is really quite sad, at least for me to read.

The direction this has gone has confirmed that many horse people are control freaks and uber competitive – and that’s okay if the best, EDUCATED interest of the horses (and also mentor owners who may not be that experienced in “breeding”), are always first.

But get to the low level of having to confirm (by validation by others) to always be “right” and try to take others down to in the process, often by “speculation” does not do the horse industry proud – whether one is a “professional” or a “hobbyist”.

That is what it has turned into.

Yes to a poster a few pages back…this makes the GOV/IRS “wars” look like child’s play (for those us that remember it…;)) But that was about registering horses and approvals as the ISR and GOV worked out their corporate war for control of the Oldenburg registry here in the U.S. and the brand.

In that case, the war wasn’t about horse abuse, their welfare and fraud, which in my mind, is much more important.

Most of the well respected breeders left this thread a LONG time back as we watch this play out among those who just want to tarnish others, just to feel they are “right”…the concern for the horses in question seems to have left the stage.

Even Leg Up’s desire to do the auction and the stallion owners who anti-upped to help with the potential costs to care for these horses (if more horses in JB’s “care”–loosely said) will hit the “body-score” required to be seized legally …and help the unsuspecting that were financially burned, was questioned. That’s pretty darned sad.

Egad.:no:

[Dare1]

Well said sid.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=3Dogs;6796205]
Thank you Lynwood! I don’t know DMKs history, I do know Lauriep’s with GFF. What IS there to defend ? How short are all your memories? The joy of the Internet is that the facts were coming out years ago. All caught in the immortality of the Internet. Then things got really awful, not just sorta kinda awful![/QUOTE]

Please. 3dogs, find the post where I say something complimentary about JB or excuse her behavior.

I understand it might require a few synapses to separate that from my opinion on unfounded gossip and dragging other people’s name through the mud with little basis in fact, and I can see where the necessary synapses are problematic. Still, miracles can happen.

(The funniest thing about this whole affair is I do have a very strong opinion about several shiny black stallions with chrome. It is not complimentary, but I figure to each his own).

I may have to apologize to that box of rocks after all. I know they are feeling shortchanged in the intellect argument at this point.