Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[equinedriver]

It won’t help to slam them as they struggle to adjust to the fact that Jill’s dirty business practices have taken some sheen off of their investments, and watered down their joy along the way.

Yes, thanks for the excellent post. I apologize if the new person posting about being skeptical about the negative things posted here are really true is not a troll or alter, but I have to admit, I just assume that anyone with two posts to their credit, given Jill’s history of trolls and alters as I noted before, makes me question the source. I am sorry if that offends some.

[Kaluna]

This thread is doing the rounds on the internet. Don’t be surprised if new people who did business with JB want to chime in. Some people probably did have good experiences and nice foals but now have read this thread and have concerns or maybe question the parentage. Indy-lou’s post is great. So is Roisin’s. Equine Driver is a saint for putting it all together.

[Toadie_s_mom]

[QUOTE=equinedriver;6536390]
It won’t help to slam them as they struggle to adjust to the fact that Jill’s dirty business practices have taken some sheen off of their investments, and watered down their joy along the way.

Yes, thanks for the excellent post. I apologize if the new person posting about being skeptical about the negative things posted here are really true is not a troll or alter, but I have to admit, I just assume that anyone with two posts to their credit, given Jill’s history of trolls and alters as I noted before, makes me question the source. I am sorry if that offends some.[/QUOTE]

I’m with you because personally, I don’t go searching the internet for information about a business that I had a GOOD experience with. I can’t believe that all these new posters were alerted to this thread by people who think JB is being “wronged”. That would make twice the no. of happy customers!

[Indy-lou]

[QUOTE=Toadie’s mom;6536842]
I’m with you because personally, I don’t go searching the internet for information about a business that I had a GOOD experience with. I can’t believe that all these new posters were alerted to this thread by people who think JB is being “wronged”. That would make twice the no. of happy customers![/QUOTE]

Right. I think a lot of folks are now forwarding info to their vets and other equine professionals or contacts to get the word out, so it seems word is spreading beyond simple searches at this point. I also want to give a hat tip to Equine Driver for organizing the info and moving forward. Thank you. I appreciate your integrity and ethic.

[alterfortoday]

what to do?

I was pointed to this thread by a friend who knew I had a couple breedings to GFF – after reading it all - I’m in a state of what to do? Here’s the background…

Back in 2008 - GFF had a deal for reduced breeding fees for her stallions - I got 2 - 1 for Redwine and 1 for Aloha with the intention of using them in the next couple of years. Well life intervened and I lost the mare, moved, decided not to breed for a year, found another mare - proved infertile, yada yada
Bottom line I still have the 2 breedings (paid for) and was actually planning on using one of them in 2013 – obviously after reading all of this - I’m definately reconsidering that plan but my question is …what can I do about the stud fees I’ve already paid (a total of $1200 that frankly is a lot of money)? Should I try to get the money back (which doesn’t look too promising), forget about it (that hurts), join the group that is amassing information against Jill (seems a little strong since she hasn’t done anything to me yet - I’m just not comfortable going ahead with planned breeding) or just figure I won’t have any problems and get whatever I can for the money I’ve already got in (just trying to list all the options - not really up for this one)

Any ideas?

[Laurierace]

I don’t think you have a right to a refund if you choose not to use your breedings. You have until next year to use them or sell them. You certainly don’t have any right to join the actions against her since you have not been harmed. You can sell them as the contract is transferable but it probably won’t be easy to find a buyer.

[daisycutter87]

Or you could go ahead and attempt to use the breedings but before going ahead with them: have a discussion with Jill. Let her know that you are fully aware of the information going around about her: the state of her lab, not sending doses when it’s needed, etc. Let it be known that if you go forward with her business and promoting foals by her stallions that you expect the service she advertises. Does it mean it’s going to work? No it doesnt but asserting yourself and laying it out on the line might actually get her to do right by you. It’s worth a try to make the phone call and have the conversation. Request to have him collected at a legit facility that you know will do the right thing.

After your conversation with Jill, if you still don’t feel right about it then i’d advise selling the breedings and move on. Even if you take a few hundred dollar loss; it’s better than losing your entire shirt on the deal. After reading all of the horrible experiences in this thread- ask yourself if you’re prepared to possibly go through this same story?

[Poody]

I did look at breeding to Redwine, read Dr Timoney’s work on the topic, decided not to. Had included him on a list for someone else to consider… they went with Popeye. We were lucky I guess.

Hope things work out for those involved.

(haven’t read entirely thru this thread it’s massive… are there house guests too ?)

[propspony]

[QUOTE=Poody;6537671]

(haven’t read entirely thru this thread it’s massive… are there house guests too ?)[/QUOTE]

Oh yes. And a couple of awesome crazy thread/poster mashups occur as well. Well worth the read I assure you.

[Mardi]

If it was me, I’d forego the breedings. Here’s why.

1. If I sold the breedings, I’d be selling them because I knew that GFF has become a disreputable breeder. This is a very different reason to sell than if I simply didn’t have a mare. I couldn’t, in good conscience, sell breedings to someone under these circumstances. Not to mention that if I sell them, and the next person has difficulties with GFF, and needs to litigate…now I’m dragged back into it.

2. There’s no doubt that my vet would strongly advise against using the breedings. If I did so anyway, she’d refuse to to do the repro work.

3. $1200 is alot of money to walk away from. But I’d rather take that hit, and cut my losses than go forward with the breedings. Breeding is expensive enough and risky enough even when things go well. If the mare gets sick because of GFF, now I have bigger vet bills. If dealing with GFF goes bad, now I have to spend the time to make it right. Why add more risk ?

I wouldn’t want to knowingly tempt fate with this breeder who has a dirty lab, bad business reputation, and whom I had been warned about well in advance. It’s not worth the trouble and worry.

Count me OUT.

[me7711]

[QUOTE=equinedriver;6535091]
Interesting isn’t it, how anyone that is questioning or supporting is a new poster…[/QUOTE]

Yes, I’m new here. My only point was being I am not seeing this first hand, it is easy for someone to be vindictive over the internet. Someone who has been to her facility knows if that is her place. I am only trying to give some benefit of the doubt somewhere. Not trying to support her- just don’t want to jump on the bandwagon till I have all my facts.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=me7711;6537808]
Yes, I’m new here. My only point was being I am not seeing this first hand, it is easy for someone to be vindictive over the internet. Someone who has been to her facility knows if that is her place. I am only trying to give some benefit of the doubt somewhere. Not trying to support her- just don’t want to jump on the bandwagon till I have all my facts.[/QUOTE]

If you read the entire thread you can see that there is much proof it is Jill Burnells Grey Fox Farm

[equinedriver]

[QUOTE=me7711;6537808]
Yes, I’m new here. My only point was being I am not seeing this first hand, it is easy for someone to be vindictive over the internet. Someone who has been to her facility knows if that is her place. I am only trying to give some benefit of the doubt somewhere. Not trying to support her- just don’t want to jump on the bandwagon till I have all my facts.[/QUOTE]

If you have read the entire thread you will see where multiple known posters and both verified the currentness of the photos and the fact that it was/is indeed her farm pictured, in addition to first hand accounts of visits there verifying what was depicted. I guess another reason for me to question why anyone would really question whether what is posted here is, in fact true. I really didn’t mean any personal offense.

[Kwill]

[QUOTE=me7711;6537808]
Yes, I’m new here. My only point was being I am not seeing this first hand, it is easy for someone to be vindictive over the internet. Someone who has been to her facility knows if that is her place. I am only trying to give some benefit of the doubt somewhere. Not trying to support her- just don’t want to jump on the bandwagon till I have all my facts.[/QUOTE]

Facts:

1. photos are of her previous facility where she collected and kept records. It has been confirmed by photo details (her name on documents and so forth) and people who visited her farm.

2. You have numerous first hand accounts, including from other message boards, which were linked here, of unhappy customers.

3. It’s a fact that she owes money to people, and that is affecting foal registrations, as well putting doubt on whether she will honor her business contracts.

4. There is some evidence that some horses in her care might not be cared for in optimal conditions, and that her depictions of her farm are not as they appear on her facebook page and website.

5. Most importantly, you have the evidence presented here that Jill Burnell has downplayed the EVA problem, suggested mare owners did not need to vaccinate, which possibly resulted in infections in mares belonging to people who used her stallion Redwine. We have direct quotes from her downplaying the severity or even suggesting he might recover from the virus that were categorically refuted by a respected veterinarian. Given that her laboratory conditions, at least in the past, were very sloppy, the implications of possible contamination became a real concern for mare owners.

It was enough evidence for me to be convinced that there would be other stallions that would be a better choice, and buying a horse from her or sending her a horse would not be a good idea. That is not to say she hasn’t honored her business contracts in some cases, but in quite a few there have been problems and alleged fraud, thus equinedriver’s class action suit.

[Summit_Springs_Farm]

[QUOTE=alterfortoday;6537276]
I was pointed to this thread by a friend who knew I had a couple breedings to GFF – after reading it all - I’m in a state of what to do? Here’s the background…

Back in 2008 - GFF had a deal for reduced breeding fees for her stallions - I got 2 - 1 for Redwine and 1 for Aloha with the intention of using them in the next couple of years. Well life intervened and I lost the mare, moved, decided not to breed for a year, found another mare - proved infertile, yada yada
Bottom line I still have the 2 breedings (paid for) and was actually planning on using one of them in 2013 – obviously after reading all of this - I’m definately reconsidering that plan but my question is …what can I do about the stud fees I’ve already paid (a total of $1200 that frankly is a lot of money)? Should I try to get the money back (which doesn’t look too promising), forget about it (that hurts), join the group that is amassing information against Jill (seems a little strong since she hasn’t done anything to me yet - I’m just not comfortable going ahead with planned breeding) or just figure I won’t have any problems and get whatever I can for the money I’ve already got in (just trying to list all the options - not really up for this one)

Any ideas?[/QUOTE]
Can you order frozen from GFF and place it with a vet who has the proper containers for frozen semen?
To use or sell at a later date? I know our vet has the container to store frozen semen. Better than walking away and you have the semen without the headache of dealing with JB at breeding time.

[ldaziens]

[QUOTE=alterfortoday;6537276]
I was pointed to this thread by a friend who knew I had a couple breedings to GFF – after reading it all - I’m in a state of what to do? Here’s the background…

Back in 2008 - GFF had a deal for reduced breeding fees for her stallions - I got 2 - 1 for Redwine and 1 for Aloha with the intention of using them in the next couple of years. Well life intervened and I lost the mare, moved, decided not to breed for a year, found another mare - proved infertile, yada yada
Bottom line I still have the 2 breedings (paid for) and was actually planning on using one of them in 2013 – obviously after reading all of this - I’m definately reconsidering that plan but my question is …what can I do about the stud fees I’ve already paid (a total of $1200 that frankly is a lot of money)? Should I try to get the money back (which doesn’t look too promising), forget about it (that hurts), join the group that is amassing information against Jill (seems a little strong since she hasn’t done anything to me yet - I’m just not comfortable going ahead with planned breeding) or just figure I won’t have any problems and get whatever I can for the money I’ve already got in (just trying to list all the options - not really up for this one)

Any ideas?[/QUOTE]

I don’t know anything about horse breeding, but I cannot imagine putting anything from that “lab” into my horse. Personally, I would send a certified letter to her requesting a full refund - keep it short. She won’t reply, I’m sure. And, I think you SHOULD then be added to Equinedriver’s list. In my opinion, Jill Burnell misrepresented herself and her business and people did business with her based on those misrepresentations. Aside from the hygiene issues, parasite issues, disease issues, using pictures on website w/o permission issues; the registration issues seem like a big deal to me. Ultimately, it depends on what the signed breeding or semen or whatever it’s called contract says – assuming there are contracts. But again, my non-legal opinion is that there was misrepresentation / false (deceptive) advertising.

Someone mentioned selling the breedings; and while you may not be legally required to disclose all of the negative info you have become aware of re: Jill Burnell; I would certainly feel a moral / legal obligation to at the very least direct potential buyers to this thread.

Just my non expert thoughts as a complete outsider to this mess.

[ldaziens]

[QUOTE=Mardi;6537744]
If it was me, I’d forego the breedings. Here’s why.

1. If I sold the breedings, I’d be selling them because I knew that GFF has become a disreputable breeder. This is a very different reason to sell than if I simply didn’t have a mare. I couldn’t, in good conscience, sell breedings to someone under these circumstances. Not to mention that if I sell them, and the next person has difficulties with GFF, and needs to litigate…now I’m dragged back into it.

2. There’s no doubt that my vet would strongly advise against using the breedings. If I did so anyway, she’d refuse to to do the repro work.

3. $1200 is alot of money to walk away from. But I’d rather take that hit, and cut my losses than go forward with the breedings. Breeding is expensive enough and risky enough even when things go well. If the mare gets sick because of GFF, now I have bigger vet bills. If dealing with GFF goes bad, now I have to spend the time to make it right. Why add more risk ?

I wouldn’t want to knowingly tempt fate with this breeder who has a dirty lab, bad business reputation, and whom I had been warned about well in advance. It’s not worth the trouble and worry.

Count me OUT.[/QUOTE]

YES ^^ What Mardi says!

[ldaziens]

[QUOTE=Summit Springs Farm;6537975]
Can you order frozen from GFF and place it with a vet who has the proper containers for frozen semen?
To use or sell at a later date? I know our vet has the container to store frozen semen. Better than walking away and you have the semen without the headache of dealing with JB at breeding time.[/QUOTE]

Would a reputable vet get involved in this trainwreck in any way? After seeing the lab pictures, in my mind – GFF SEMEN = BIOHAZARD / HAZMAT.

[me7711]

[QUOTE=equinedriver;6537893]
If you have read the entire thread you will see where multiple known posters and both verified the currentness of the photos and the fact that it was/is indeed her farm pictured, in addition to first hand accounts of visits there verifying what was depicted. I guess another reason for me to question why anyone would really question whether what is posted here is, in fact true. I really didn’t mean any personal offense.[/QUOTE]

— Oh my, I am still trying to read all the posts and hadn’t realized of so many people having problems. I wish there was a Readers Digest version. Sorry for my gullableness-is that a word?(ps, I’m up to post 4 now…)

[Molly_Malone]

[QUOTE=ldaziens;6538207]
Would a reputable vet get involved in this trainwreck in any way? After seeing the lab pictures, in my mind – GFF SEMEN = BIOHAZARD / HAZMAT.[/QUOTE]

I think it highly unlikely she processes frozen semen in her kitchen. I would imagine that Equine Reproduction would know where the frozen had been processed and/or stored.