. A double bridle, unfortunately, gives the suggestion the horse is tough
That is an interresting thought as to me, it would describe more the use of a pelham.
IMMHO, a horse that goes well in a double bridle shows that it is well trained/finished and the rider is quite skilled.
And again, IMMHO, we no longer see much double bridles because lots of riders are unable to use it.
RugBug, I would imagine it’s a reference to what is sometimes called a hunter gag. It looks like a snaffle to the casual observer, but has some leverage like a gag bit.
https://www.smartpakequine.com/mobile/pt/8412#FavoriteFeatures
RugBug - I have occasionally seen people set up a running as a standing by putting the noseband through the rings out of desperation, but I can’t imagine anyone doing that at the level that Randy Roy judges at - there are standings galore at those shows, and surely someone would lend a desperate person one for the time it takes to jump around. I was surprised that he listed it, but maybe he saw it once upon a time and was so shocked that it stayed with him? 
As for the gag snaffle, I do think he means the Myler bits (and their knockoffs) that have rein and cheek piece slots. He has discussed them in other articles, so I would be pretty confident that that is what he means.
Back in the dark ages when I judged, I rarely dinged ‘uncoventional’ tack unless it was something very obvious like draw reins, etc., because, no matter what we see as the horse goes around, we have no idea what is actually in the horse’s mouth.
So to ding a double bridle is foolish, unless you want to pretend you know the D ring doesn’t have a filed bicycle chain attached to it, or the noseband doesn’t have thumbtacks sewn in or you prefer that the horse spend two hours on the lunge line so he would go around on that plain D.
I did judge a horse in a running martingale once and heard all sorts of hell when it got ribbons. I judged it the same way I judge the standing. The rider didn’t use it to keep the horse’s head down. Ergo, fine with me.
As for the judge not permitting the rider to show in her bridle, not her call and not by the rule book, unless Canada is different. The judge can ding her for her tack, but not refuse to let her show.
I always think judges should respond with their real names on threads like this, I’ve seen so many judges admitting that they blatantly ignore the rules for their own personal opinions that it’s disheartening. I’m thankful of the judges on this thread that have not done so.
Am I the only one who simply cannot fathom a double bridle as “conventional” on a show hunter (and by show, I mean C,B,A, A/A leapers) in North America?
I’m working toward my card, and I would like to say that I would have to see superbly superlative jumping style from the horse in a double in order for it to get a call over anything in a snaffle.
If your horse doesn’t touch its knees to its ears in that double bridle. Sorry. Can’t pin it.
@DarkBayUnicorn, in my opinion you would do yourself a favor by learning more about double bridles before you get your card. A double bridle should be a sign of higher education, both in the horse and the rider. I would suggest that you search out and contact some outstanding horsemen who can tell you about how a double bridle might be used on a more educated horse, and how a double might be used as a crutch. Old school horsemen who showed some of their hunters in a double bridle might bring some light to the subject.
Granted, ‘Hunters’ have changed, and nobody wants a galloping ‘brilliant’ round so much as a quiet, athletic one nowadays, but a double bridle is still correct, traditional tack by the rule book.
If you can sort the posers from the better educated (horse and rider) double bridle users, you will be a better judge.
Won’t be attending with that judge again. the experience wasn’t worth the headache, sadly. There’s questioning my tack, and there’s pinning me lower based on my choices, but when a judge insists that a written rule is wrong and her perception of my bit is correct, that’s just not okay.
Ceylon, don’t ever let someone tell you who you are.
Good for you, presenting her with the rule book. But some people won’t change their minds about something…and if that gets you seeing red, you are doing yourself a disservice.
Also good for you, doing what you can that is best for your little bay fireplug.
Get the best help you can, ride to accommodate your shortcomings (I have my own set of problems, much as you do with your leg) and you never have to explain yourself to someone who wants to tell you who you are.
[QUOTE=Fillabeana;9001539]
Ceylon, don’t ever let someone tell you who you are.
Good for you, presenting her with the rule book. But some people won’t change their minds about something…and if that gets you seeing red, you are doing yourself a disservice.
Also good for you, doing what you can that is best for your little bay fireplug.
Get the best help you can, ride to accommodate your shortcomings (I have my own set of problems, much as you do with your leg) and you never have to explain yourself to someone who wants to tell you who you are.[/QUOTE]
Thank you 
It wasn’t the fact that she wouldn’t change her mind that got me so frustrated. It was a combination of things, but mainly just how disrespectfully she said it. “The rulebook is wrong”?? It’s not that she disrespected ME necessarily, but to disrespect the rulebook for the governing body? It’s just so unprofessional, and I find it difficult to want to support something that puts money in her pocket. It’s kind of like how I avoid a western schooling series up the road from me, because the “judge” boasts about how her accreditation (that nobody can actually find documentation of) makes her more knowledgeable than the judges and trainers who have searchable credentials AND extensive experience in their discipline of choice, not to mention other unprofessional behaviour in other areas when she isn’t judging her show series. I’d much rather give my hard earned dollars to a series/club that treats their paying competitors with respect, rather than knocking others down. If that makes any more sense?
I like to think I’m doing the best I can with what I’ve got, even if we look a bit out of place for doing so. Haha. So thank you for your kind comments!
Back to the double, and hunters then vs now - ponybutt is definitely a “back in the day” hunter that one would see out riding to hounds, versus today’s “make it look effortless” show hunter. So we stick out when compared to the warmbloods and flashy bred-for-the-show-ring horses, but you know what, I like that about him!
Regarding running martingales used as a standing - It’s one of my pet peeves. Especially since the people in my area who do so are also the people who attach it to a figure eight noseband instead of a proper cavesson. :eek: But, in a pinch, if it works for the horse, it works. But I would hope it’s only temporary until the person gets a proper standing. Just my two cents on that matter. I also prefer, for my personal use, to go with a running over a standing, because I feel like a running allows the horse to self-correct, whereas a standing lets them get away with leaning/setting their head too easily, which creates another problem entirely that I’d rather not deal with if I don’t need to! haha
RugBug - I also agree that he likely means the myler style snaffles with the slots for cheekpieces and reins, turning said snaffle into a sort of gag/leverage type bit without looking like a non-snaffle. I’ve used one before, but hated the feel I got with it. I have since passed it on to a kid at the barn who is trying to get her horse out of a kimberwick and into something softer, but isn’t ready to jump down to a plain snaffle just yet. It works well for her horse though!
Couple of years ago I watched a very good rider show her horse in the CET medals at one of the Alberta qualifiers in a double bridle… she won! I believe she showed in the doulble bridle all year in the medals and placed every single time! thank goodness for judges that placed a lovely rider on a lovely horse going well in equipment it liked
[QUOTE=Small Change;9000633]
For what it’s worth, Randy Roy did just say in Horse Sport that there were items of tack that, although legal, he didn’t want to see. He didn’t come right out and say he wouldn’t use a horse presented in such tack, so I’m not really sure how he’d deal with being presented a horse in tack he didn’t like.
I would think Randy knows the rules, so for me anyways, it was an interesting read. It’s tough to say much more about it given the lack of context (it would be very interesting to discuss it), but I think the take home message is that if you’re not presenting the horse in a “standard” manner of turnout, be prepared for the judge to not use you or pin you lower than you might expect.
I occasionally show side saddle in the flat class, and encounter much of the same thing - either I pin exactly where I deserve given how the horse went, despite having both legs on one side, or I don’t get used because they don’t know what to do with me. I do try to talk to the steward ahead of time to make sure the judge knows I’ll show up that way and that it is legal, but the message isn’t always passed along![/QUOTE]
Semi-OT
That list doesn’t surprise me at all. I remember a repeated pair of takeaway quotes from a series of Ryan Roy clinics
“There’s no such thing as a noseband that’s too tight”
“You do more harm with a loose noseband than a tight one”
A number of riders had it recommended to school their horses in sliding gags and to switch to the snaffle before going in the ring. Half that barn is still riding nearly continuously in gags, several years later.
That kind of list though sums up why I vastly prefer eventing/jumper/dressage.
Ceylon Star, I’m going to PM you.
[QUOTE=Daventry;9002016]
Ceylon Star, I’m going to PM you.[/QUOTE]
PM’d you back. Thank you
As an EC judge, I was interested in this thread when it was mentioned that the baucher bit ruling came from another EC judge. So…I did a little digging and have an answer to this particular situation that happened at an open, unrated show. This is a good example of making sure you read the prize list and fully understand the local shows rules and what rulebook is being used for a particular show.
As far as I understand, the judge is not an EC judge, nor are they an AQHA judge either. They are an uncarded judge…but do advertise themselves as an EC level coach and AQHA trainer. But that doesn’t necessarily mean much when it comes to judging.
After reviewing the prize list for the show, it stated Horse Council of British Columbia rules were being used for the show. This particular rulebook does say that double bridles are allowed in english classes and goes on to state the bradoon bits that can be used in hack classes, i.e. hunter hack, road hack, show hack, english pleasure, etc., which are loose ring or eggbutt bradoons only. Whether the judge knew those rules or not, she was correct in stating you could not use your baucher bit in those classes. It could be argued it is a bit of a grey area. There was no mention of the type of bradoon bit that could be used over fences.
That being said, if you felt strongly that the conduct of the judge was not good, if it had been me, I would have contacted HCBC and let them know what happened at the show. There really is no recourse if the judge is uncarded, but at least goes on file with HCBC.
The only solution is to attend better shows with carded judges. This doesn’t necessarily mean there are no problems at the higher levels, but the judges, show committees and stewards tend to be more knowledgeable as you go up the levels.
Clarification re the baucher: was using the baucher as a stand-alone snaffle at the show in question, not as the bradoon in a double. I don’t use a double on the flat as I don’t have the issues on the flat that I need the help with as I do over fences. (sorry that that got all mixed up, haha. I can see how it sounded like I was using the double with the baucher for the show when I’d been talking about using it in the double prior)
I remember seeing “hanging cheek” under approved snaffles previously, but I see now that the HCBC 2017 rules no longer mention them. Good to know.
Thanks for doing some digging for me! It’s a shame she was saying she was something she’s not. Oh well. I unfortunately see that a lot in the area.
Learning experience for sure!
Well, knock me upside the head and call it a day. I NEVER would have imagined that people would use a running like a standing. Chalk that up to learn something new.
As for the snaffle gag - the myler types with hooks make sense…as people do try to show in those. [url=https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1157740_10201293252826859_1989202416_n.jpg?oh=b35272150d62d59d797e20b83d29d25f&oe=591385EF]My mare’s “be nice” bit is the Beval Gag (a.k.a perfect bit, or other names). It’s the right amount of “hey!” when she’s full of herself. While it goes to shows with us, I would never show hunters in it…nor would I try to find something similar but more discreet (myler with hooks). I just use her full cheek snaffle…
My rider uses a running as a standing daily for schooling. He only uses a running when competing.
Chalk it up to being poor…relatively speaking :lol:
You can get a standing for less than $30.
You can make a running a standing for 0$.
Not safely. If I saw a trainer having a student do that, I would inform my opinion negatively. But that’s just me. I would wonder what other shortcuts does this person take?
I was taught there is a way to do things that is safe and proper. Call me a snob, but I see very little reason to turn a running to a standing…especially on a regular basis.
Haha well in the land of fei show jumping if that’s the biggest “sin” my rider is committing, I’ll take it.
It’s really funny because I made him take garbage bags full of hay from our home barn to one of the most renowned shows in Europe. As we are walking from the car into the show with our black plastic garbage bags, my rider says “now people will understand that my brother is the rich one!”
Of course, his brother also uses a running as a standing.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
