Drama at the barn - when is enough enough?

[Alternative_Route]

My daughter and I both ride. We currently have two horses boarded at a barn near our home, where they have been for ~8 years. When we moved to this barn she was doing short stirrup and I was already active in the jumper ring. There were some great girls who were within a year or two of her age and they were fast friends. They all rode together, showed together up the ranks in the area shows, etc. Now, she’s a junior in high school. Her friends have all graduated and most left the state for college. Their horses were sold or sent out on lease. Now, she’s the oldest teen at the barn, with a whole pack of girls who are middle school age.

This group of girls are MEAN. They threaten others (yes, I’ve heard this), make snide comments constantly and generally make things miserable for anyone else in the barn. Parents aren’t often around, or when they are, they sit and socialize with themselves. Several of them have made themselves buddy-buddy with the barn manager, so he’s no help - he won’t say a word to his friends about their kids being brats. Our trainer is busy teaching, so doesn’t see much of the issues that happen in the barn aisle, tack room, etc.

I really do not want to move our horses, but I’m not seeing any other options. It will make me very sad as we’ve been here a long, long time and have friends there, but it’s gotten to the point where neither of us go to the barn when the Brat Pack is there.

[Scribbler]

If the kids actually threaten you or your daughter, contact the police. No, they are too young to really bearrested. But a visit from the police will set them back on their heels. Document and be accurate in what you report.

If other boarders tell you they have been threatened advise them to call the police and refuse to get pulled into a worry drama spiral.

If the children make snide comments, you can either ignore or you can think up some really good comebacks ahead of time that will reduce them to tears and shut them up around you.

Or you can ignore them.

Or you can make friends with them.

the other option is to research alternatives for boarding. Then have a serious sit-down chat with your trainer where you bring up documented instances of bad behavior and tell.your trainer that you are seriously considering moving out unless the atmosphere changes. Put it on the trainer to fix if they want your business.

At the same time, be sure you aren’t letting yourself and your daughter get paranoid and over sensitive

95% of what young teens do and say is aimed squarely at their own peer group and circle of friends. The giggling eye rolling shrieking is almost always aimed at their actual group frenemies and is status seeking behavior within their group.

They actually spend little time thinking about old people like adults or even 16 year olds. Probably not even n their radar unless you were nasty to them at the start.

[PrincessPonies]

I think moving is your best option. I was at the same barn for 6 years and had been with the same group of people for over a decade. When I was the only one left of my group I really missed the others. Between multiple different people it got to the point that I avoided going to the barn when other people were there. I thought about moving for years and it wasn’t until we moved cross country that I finally left. To this day I wish I’d moved sooner. I didn’t realize just how much I’d stopped enjoying/dreading trips to the barn. Like you I felt I’d been there so long I couldn’t move but now I truly regret not moving before. Hope all goes well for you and you find a solution.

[eclipse]

Why do adults have such a hard time telling teens, to shut the f up and knock it off? Seriously, tell them to knock it off! Every single adult is afraid of them? Really? Teen cattiness is nothing for an adult to be afraid of…and, if it’s really that bad, find another barn and tell your trainer why!

[gottagrey]

Agree with Scribbler and Eclipse… Sounds more like daughter has no group of riders in her peer group to hang with and maybe there are few adult riders. Why not socialize with the other parents when they’re hanging around, and IME the older teen ended up being the person the younger riders looked up to… I also know that at one of my barns it could be difficult for one of the Jrs when some of the age differences became larger… the 2-3 difference between high school and middle school may as well be 10-15 years in teen life. If you heard them threaten someone, why are you sitting by not saying a thing to them?

[PonyPenny]

This is another one of those bizarre “barn drama” posts. I cannot believe that you or your daughter would care one iota what middle school girls say or do. If they are so horrible, why don’t you speak up?

[hoopoe]

it does not matter if the trainer isnt present in the barn. One assumes they are the “boss”

talk to them and say that the barn culture is sliding downhill and that they need to instill some ground manners in the clients, their offspring and it appears his manager.

Manager should probably review Safe Sport since bullying culture is problematic and his being “buddy buddy” might need a cautious eye.

adult up , and your daughter is not to young to do the same.

[NC001]

Can you give us some examples of the threats and behavior?

I have a soon to be teen and we are at a barn with lots of kids. The middle school and high school kids get along well because the middle school kids tend to look up to the high school kids. The elementary kids worship them all.
Did your daughter ever have a friendship with these kids and there was a falling out or was there a big split between the older and younger kids? What about the parents- have you attempted to get to know them?

[TheMoo]

@eclipse

Why do adults have such a hard time telling teens, to shut the f up and knock it off? Seriously, tell them to knock it off! Every single adult is afraid of them? Really? Teen cattiness is nothing for an adult to be afraid of…and, if it’s really that bad, find another barn and tell your trainer why!

This needs repeating. Really OP? You’re an adult that can’t tell kids to knock it off?

[Calvincrowe]

Set up a meeting with your trainer, bring a calm and concise summary of what is going on, and see what she has to say. Be ready to move barns if she dismisses your claims. The problem with confronting teens is parents often support them regardless of evidence of their wrongdoings. Certainly, if a teen was rude to me, an adult, I’d stop that right quick—and speak to her parent right there in front of the other parents. But I’m a middle school teacher so I’m very comfortable around kids and am able to call them out effectively. It sounds as if you and your daughter are on the outside of the “barn group” and your trainer is either blind to it, afraid to stop it for fear of losing clients, hates confrontation or is willing to lose you two in favor of them. I’m always so grateful for my trainer and BM when I read these threads— no one is allowed to behave this way!

[TCA_Arabians]

There is a big difference between rudeness and making threats. What is the nature of the threats? Both behaviors need to be addressed - with the young women directly and with the responsible adults. I wouldn’t hesitate to correct a child, regardless of age, and tell them not only that they’re rude but why what they’re saying is rude. That needs to be said in a calm adult voice. They also need to understand that horsemanship has standards and they need to live up to them. Threats from kids that young have to addressed sharply. It’s the kind of behavior that can escalate into something more serious for others or their horses.

[S1969]

@Calvincrowe

Set up a meeting with your trainer, bring a calm and concise summary of what is going on, and see what she has to say. Be ready to move barns if she dismisses your claims. The problem with confronting teens is parents often support them regardless of evidence of their wrongdoings. Certainly, if a teen was rude to me, an adult, I’d stop that right quick—and speak to her parent right there in front of the other parents. But I’m a middle school teacher so I’m very comfortable around kids and am able to call them out effectively. It sounds as if you and your daughter are on the outside of the “barn group” and your trainer is either blind to it, afraid to stop it for fear of losing clients, hates confrontation or is willing to lose you two in favor of them. I’m always so grateful for my trainer and BM when I read these threads— no one is allowed to behave this way!

Yes, this.

Whether or not you stay, the trainer needs to hear from you. Long time clients thinking of moving their horses are likely to be listened to - so use this chance.

As a parent, I really have no interest in being the “bitch mom” for other kids. One or two occasions of having to address bad behavior is one thing. Being a surrogate parent or trainer to establish appropriate barn culture - no f-ing way. I’d be out of there first.

[JanM]

Before you say anything to your trainer, or the BO, then have your exit plan in place, because I bet you’ll be moving.

[BeeHoney]

Where is the trainer or BM in all this mess? Please do not assume that they know all the details of what is going on, or that they condone it. Step one is to discuss the issues you are having, with specific information about events, with the trainer or BM. If this culture is allowed by the trainer/BM, then I think you do indeed need to consider moving. MANY people choose barns based on what is “culturally” for them a good fit. Some people enjoy an intense, slightly competitive atmosphere. Other people prefer a more laid back place. Choose what is right for you. And of course, always check yourself in the mirror. There are absolutely difficult or unpleasant people out there, but always make sure that you are not part of the problem in some way. This doesn’t seem to be the case in this scenario, but there are plenty of cases where a person who is bothered by drama was the exact person to stir it up in the first place. This doesn’t sound like the situation here, but I always encourage people to make sure they aren’t unwittingly playing a role in whatever drama is ensuing.

[Mulligan314]

I teach high schoolers(9th grade mostly) and have to beat the middle school out of those kids for the first 4 months of the school year(not literally, but it’s the same as training animals…lots of consistent reinforcement of simple procedures) I have completely told off middle schoolers on more than one occasion. I don’t have patience for their shit, and they need to be put in their place. Little monsters…for reals…Like, they are true monsters. I have been offered positions at a Jr High more than once…nope nope nope…

So, yes, pre-teens/middle schoolers are awful, but I have had luck with some fancy verbiage and a stern ‘GTFO’ attitude. Treat them like you would a pushy or untrained horse. They need consistent boundaries anytime they are in or around your presence. Boundaries that you establish, not them.

Or, you can leave. That works too.

[betsyk]

What do you want your daughter to learn from this experience? Do you want her to learn about conflict resolution, working with difficult people, how to know when it’s time to get out of a bad relationship, something else? This has the potential to teach some big life lessons at a time when she will be going off to college soon and may need these exact skills. What does she want to do, and what role does she want to play in finding a solution?

[Scribbler]

Whenever there is drama, the person complaining is playing at least a tiny bit of an unwitting role. If only by letting other people’s actions affect them. Or by getting sucked into complaining about the drama with other people.

I expect OP is more attuned to teen drama because she has a teenage daughter. I am curious how much this is affecting the daughter and to what extent the mom is acting in ways that reinforce the daughters sensitivity to this rather than bolster her ability to ignore.

I can see for daughter her problem is that her friend group has moved on. And the tweens would not be ideal companions even if they liked and admired her, yet she feels excluded at some level.The double whammy of losing her friend group and having this new young self involved crowd move in could be quite disheartening if her riding previously had a strong social factor.

Moving is sometimes a good option if relationships between teens have collapsed (like transferring schools). However, what are you moving from and what are you moving to find,?

Daughter will never get back her old friend group that built up over time and then dispersed. That is finished and can’t be rebuilt.

In new barns she will be the new girl, and those barns might be full of other tweens, or of adults.

I feel like by 16 or 17 kids are making friends based on who they actually like as a person, rather than at 12 or 13 when you bond around proximity or activity (ages may vary here).
If the larger question is, how does an older teen make barn friendships, that’s actually an interesting question.

I’d say, by stepping up and becoming more adult. Taking on responsibility, learning to talk to adults and thinking about her place in the world as an adult.

What would a 22 year old do in this position? Probably ignore the tweens giggling for one, but snap at them if they got in her way.

[Edre]

“Explain to me why you think this is appropriate behavior.” and “Explain to me why you did that.” in a calm delivery are two of the most brutally effective methods I have ever come across for stopping BS cold - and IME (having taught across a variety of ages, first grade through senior year) works on just about every age group.

The point you are going to force them to get to is “it’s not appropriate” “Then why would you do it?” “I don’t know” “So if you don’t know, why do you think it’s appropriate to do?” It can circle around forever but essentially what the purpose of it all is is to calmly, sternly, and unemotionally call them out on poor behavior. “I see you doing this, I know what you are doing, I do not find it appropriate, and I am unafraid to consistently challenge you over it” is the message that teenagers should get from it.

That said: It shouldn’t be on you as another client to do this. The business proprietors (be it the barn owner OR the trainer - it sounds like barn manager is not useful in this situation) need to be told. “This is the behavior we are seeing/experiencing and it is directly affecting our willingness to be here. Are you willing to address these happenings?” and they may be surprised, and if they are surprised, understand that they can’t come up with solutions on the spot but ask to check in with them in a few days because you want to seek reassurance that there is a plan in place to address the situation.

And of course, failing a plan, or a plan failing to be implemented, leave.

Life is too short to be somewhere you don’t enjoy being. Convenience, familiarity, and history with a facility/people should only go so far. At the end of the day, if you aren’t happy? Walk.

[Seagram]

Odd one out maybe, but I’ve seen first hand how sneaky, underhanded and just plain mean a ‘pack’ of girls can be! It can literally take your breath away! Bullying can be so hard to deal with, even for mature adults, if your daughter is feeling bullied, it’s time to take action. Do not let it continue, either address it head on with the trainer/owner of facility, or move your horses now. You are the adult, you need to take care of your daughter first and foremost.

[Posting_Trot]

How does your daughter feel about this situation? Does she feel personally picked on? Is she anxious about going to the barn because of the behavior of the other girls?

It’s worth having a conversation with your daughter about what she would like to have happen.

If this issue is not really about your daughter, and rather you are taking offense to the girls’ behavior, then if you approach them you should keep your daughter out of it. You shouldn’t try to be the mom sailing in to rescue her daughter in this situation, particularly if your daughter doesn’t want rescuing.

So if some of the girls’ behavior offends you, you should just tell them something along the lines of what others have suggested about what might not be appropriate in a semi-public space. But, it’s possible that you’ll then have to endure snarky behind-the-back comments from the girls and possibly one of their moms being sicced on you for being a meanie.

Good luck.