Hi, new here, new to dressage. Ridden western all my life, began formal dressage training May 2017.
Currently working on transitions, specifically trot to canter. My mare wants to throw her head up, hollow out and brace. My trainer wants me to use draw reins to fix this. While I am flattered that she thinks my hands are good enough for this, I have my doubts. I asked her yesterday if there was another way, but she said this was the best way.
Thoughts?
Get a new trainer?
I am not opposed to the use of drawreins under certain circumstances, but what have you already tried?
also video is really helpful for this type of question.
I expect horse is not yet strong enough to do transitions easily without falling on the forehand and throwing up head to counter balance. I expect trainer is more concerned with head set than overall balance.
But yes, video would be very helpful.
OK Iāll work on the video. Iām usually solo.
My suspicion is, I am bracing and sitting forward, so said mare responds in kind.
There is an element of anticipation on both our parts.
What are the important things to remember when working on trot to canter departures? She struggles to stay round, and if she does stay round, she throws the wrong lead. Trainer has me using single draw rein in the inside hand and the rest of the reins in the outside hand (then yells at me to straighten her head with this hand)ā¦ it just feels like too much. All this on the 20m circle.
Tips on what to ask / say to my trainer? I donāt want a new one sheās overall been great. This just feels a little sticky.
Your trainer is resorting to gadgetry when she doesnāt have the answer to your (very basic) problem. I donāt know what to tell you to say to her because sheās incorrect and doesnāt have a good understanding of dressage training. Sorry - I can only go by what youāve written.
When a horse is doing ANYTHING with its head, the problem is not in your hands, itās in your LEG. In other words, the horse is not balanced in the transition yet.That could be from you not making sure sheās under herself and ready to do the canter depart, or it could just be the horse rushing and your hand being restrictive. Adding more of a restricting hand by using draw reins will exacerbate the problem, not correct it.
Practice your walk to trot transitions until they are easy and correct every time. Then you can start to work on the trot to canter transitions. Also, make them brief. On a 20m circle in working trot, ask for canter and allow the canter for just a few strides, then back to trot and rebalance. Do this until she starts to offer quieter and rounder transitions. Donāt worry about what sheās doing with her head. It will fix itself when she gains better balance.
Last bit of advice - donāt use the draw reins. You are being taught to ride with your hands and that just couldnāt be more backward.
Good luck.
Itās not really sticky. Its just bad training. If you want to stick with your trainer great, but if sheās reverting to this kind of training for something so basic you need to know up front that this is not good or real dressage training, This is not the right way to do it and if you want to do it the right way there is nothing you can get from any of us armchair trainers to say to this person that will all of a sudden make them use good training techniques, you just need to go to someone else who knows what they are doing. Your trainer either doesnāt have the knowledge to be doing what they do or they just donāt care, end of story.
@Mondo, in general I agree. The answer is almost always add leg.
I should also say that in my experience doing really anything fiddly with that inside rein when teaching a simple canter transition is, generally, not correct.
Your trainer isnāt teaching you own to ride.
Your trainer is teaching you how to force a horse into a frame without riding skills.
What are the important things to remember when working on trot to canter departures? She struggles to stay round, and if she does stay round, she throws the wrong lead. Trainer has me using single draw rein in the inside hand and the rest of the reins in the outside hand (then yells at me to straighten her head with this hand)ā¦ it just feels like too much. All this on the 20m circle.
Tips on what to ask / say to my trainer? I donāt want a new one sheās overall been great. This just feels a little sticky.
I will ignore the rest of your trainerās crap and focus on the bold part.
Those are caused by imbalance, improper cues and contact issues.
You are probably confusing your horse with your leg/seat cues.
You are probably not waiting for a good moment to ask for the canter.
You are focusing way too much on the head while your attention should be about your contact, your timing and your horseās response to your cues.
Without seeing you ride, it is difficult to really suggest you anything but really, finding a new trainer would be a start.
Inside draw reinā¦
āInside draw reinā?
The outside hind leg is the leg that the horse needs to weight in order to make a clean canter depart. Itās why so many kiddos learning to ride are taught to pull the horseās nose to the outside - itās an easy way to force the horseās balance to the outside. I have no idea what your ātrainerā is trying to accomplish by having you operate in the manner you describedā¦
Presumably youād like to be more sophisticated about your transitions than your average 5 or 6 yo rider, in which case your ātrainerā is doing you a great disservice.
I agree with othersā¦find a new coach.
I suggest you quietly look around, and audit several different instructors. Your present one has some huge holes in her education, coupled with an inability to see and correct your body use, to help the mare.
Abbie S I always though they were taught to pull the head outside in order to āfreeā the inside shoulder. Itās amazing that so many horses accidentally learned to canter on the correct lead, Yes the outside hind is the strike off leg, which is why we draw ou outside leg back to ask it to reach under.
Op -It is unlikely that your instructor will take kindly to your passing along instruction from the COTH.:uhoh:
Iāll admit Iāve not read all of the previous posts.
But in my checklist, I do not expect great (or even good) up transitions until I can push my horseās hind legs under them during down transitions every. single. time. If my down transitions are not soft, straight, engaged, and forward, I feel I have no tools to work with to get good up transitions.
Thank you all for your advice. Iām worried now :eek: because my instincts were telling me, it felt all wrongā¦
OP, I agree with the other posters. You did not mention the age/training of your mare that might help with online advice.
One thing I got from the Carl Hester symposium was that he had the riders slow a stride before the depart, that gave a bit of balance. Many times we (me) ask for a transition without a real preparation, and the horse is not well balanced, hence throwing head up. The horses āgetā the signal with repetition and can strike off in a more balanced way because they have anticipated and organized themselves to do so.
If you are perching forward you are not helping the situation, and if you are bracing the mare may be reacting to your stiffness (tension?). The slowing down and sitting deep will help. try sitting like your old western self and see what happens. some trainers say āsit on your pocketsā to help us āperchersā.
Also, it will not be perfect at once so focus on the smooth transition (tension free) no matter where her head is, and then work on the balance that will bring everything more together. With a new trainer.
^^ This, in spades.
Draw reins are best left to the experienced rider, IMO. Misuse can result in all kinds of contact issues down the road; ask me how I know thisā¦
Also, I found when switching from Western to Dressage that it took me awhile to get the whole contact thing. I frequently rode with little to no contact and didnāt help my horse.
Lynn Palm has some great exercises in her Dressage for the Western Rider that might help bridge the divide for you. Also, Jane Savoieās books are another great resource for learning how to properly cue your horse.
Good Luck!
I will be the dissenting opinion here. You donāt need to look to an e-mail forum to decide whether to trust your trainer. Look around at your own community, others in your barn, and the reputation your trainer has locally. My own trainer probably uses draw-reins more than average. Not on every horse, and usually just for short amounts of time. I have heard plenty of comments such as above. I was skeptical when my trainer wanted to put draw-reins on my first/second level horse. I was the one mostly riding the horse, and she was doing training rides once a week. We both rode him in draw reins for a couple months to get through a training block.
But when I look at what this trainer and her students achieve - the scores, the levels, the way of going, soundness, happiness - it is what I want. (BTW, she has trained several of her own horses to GP and trained many amateurs and young pros to FEI, with what I think are very good scores).
I decided that I trusted this trainer more than a bunch of unknowns on the internet, and I am glad that I did. Yes, there are risks with draw reins. Yes, there are horses who learn to head-set and do not develop a topline because of them. But that doesnāt mean that EVERY horse, or even MOST horses will have these problems from using draw reins at times. I have seen several trainers use them quite effectively as a part of a program that includes other things which DO develop true impulsion and connection.
Are there other ways to get the good effects that you might get with draw reins? Probably. Would another trainer do it differently? Quite possible. But trying to force your trainer to do it different from what THEY think is best also has great risks. I would say to look around at your community. Pick the trainer that you trust the most, and then TRUST THEM.
rjr-Good for you you! There are quite a few riders out there who train to GP. And what are their scores? NP has trained to GP-says he.
OP Iām way, way in the East, so ave nothing to gain by telling you to look for help elsewhere.
Have you tried using a half halt before the canter transition?
My impression of a trainer that suggests draw reins is that they donāt have the skills or the patience to coach a rider through basic transitions. I would be looking elsewhere for instruction.
OPā¦watch your horse at liberty. Ask her to trot then to canter. OBSERVE.
What does the horse do? If she gives you a nice trot canter transition, you have your answerā¦eg., that the rider is interfering with the horse.
The simple way to teach trot-canter transitions is to use the voice. Put the horse on the lunge line and ask the horse to trot and canter. Attach the lunge line with a simple rig, likeā¦clip the line to the inside ring of a halterā¦DO NOT put the line thru the inside bit, over the pol to the outside bit ring.
When your horse understands trot-canter from the voice, ask (with the voice) from the saddle. Do NOTHING with your body. Ask for the canter transition, then follow the motion as you would if you were on the lunge line. Have the horse on a loose rein. If the horse understands and gives you the transition, then work on getting both you and the horse connected.
Rememberā¦it is a language between the horse and the rider.
If the horse feels it is in a straight jacket it will continue to use its head and neck in whatever way it needs to comply with what is being asked.
Sounds like a nice horse.
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