Drawrein question.

[DancingQueen]

I made a statement in hunter/jumper

“Draw reins when used correctly can be very useful and even when used incorrectly they will not do much damage but rather give a horse a quite restingplace somewhere on the forehand.
I don’t really understand the aversion towards the drawrein that is comparably mild compared with an unsteady hand or a severe bit rather then trying to understand, encourage and appreciate the many benefits of this aid.”

I was questioned on it and my reply was

"In my opinion

Compared to the yanking pulling and seesawing one often sees with riders who understands that “a frame” is desirable but still lacks the ability to properly ride a horse so that the horse naturally finds a good frame as a result of working in correct balance and responding to correct aids the right way, the drawrein can be sheer bliss and way less harmful"

I was encouraged to crosspost for dressage/eventer opinions on the drawrein in general and my opinions in particular so here I am.
Please let me know what you think, let it rip, I can take it and I appreciate an educated opinion and your input.

[SillyHorse]

The use of draw reins usually results in a horse being forced into a “frame” that might look pretty to an uneducated eye, but the horse is in no way being allowed to “naturally” find a “good frame.” As for the quiet “resting place,” what kind of resting place offers no escape, no way to stretch down, no way to do anything but be stuck there?

[snoopy]

Thank you for a great post.:yes:

[Rival]

I don’t really understand why people get so upset about draw reins. It isn’t a fixed rein used to tie the horses head down. It is just simply to discourage the horse from going to the wrong place (ie grabbing the bit and inverting). Yes, ideally you should be an organized and correct enough rider to avoid this from happening but some people just aren’t quick enough and if used properly they can be a great aid to help horse and rider get organized. So I view draw reins as an aid to remind the horse not to come off of the bit rather than an aid to put them on it (does that make sense?).

[goingforbaroque]

Drawreins should not be used to put the horses head down or force them in to a frame. When used correctly they prevent the horse from coming above the bit and can serve to set boundries for the horse. You should not ride with them on constant contact but rather hold them at a specefic legnth and only when the horse tries to raise higher in it’s frame do they come into contact. Once the horse gives they will become slack again. They are an excellent tool when used correctly but are all to often abused. They should be used almost like a correctly fitting running martingale. Only coming into contact when the horse rises too high and then once the horse lowers it is slack.

[SillyHorse]

I’ve been around for a long time, but I guess I’ve never seen draw reins used correctly because I’ve never seen them with any slack.

[goingforbaroque]

[QUOTE=SillyHorse;3069363]
I’ve been around for a long time, but I guess I’ve never seen draw reins used correctly because I’ve never seen them with any slack.[/QUOTE]

Know what you mean!

[merrygoround]

You can set boundaries very nicely with vienna reins. With draw reins, unsteady hands exacerbate the problem. They are more often abused than used correctly. And as has been stated before they “set” the head, without getting to the root of the problem, which is the inactivity of the hind end.

Yes they can be useful in educated hands, but by the time the rider becomes that educated, they no longer need them.

[goingforbaroque]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;3069379]
Yes they can be useful in educated hands, but by the time the rider becomes that educated, they no longer need them. :)[/QUOTE]

I do not think this is necessarly true. Often drawreins are very useful to help reschool horses with problems, esp when a skilled rider has no other option and converntional methods aren’t going to work for that particular horse. Yes, it would be nice if all training could be done perfectly and without any extra equipment, but that just isn’t always the case and sometimes we as riders need a little extra help. I would rather put a horse in correctly used draw reins then have my arms yanked out or put them in a stronger bit or kill myself, etc because they are doing something that I, even as a skilled rider, cannot change with conventional methods no matter how well I ride.

I feel drawreins do serve a very functional purpose as long as, like everything else, they are used correctly.

My problem with vienna rains is that you cannot adjust them and truly let go if/when you need to.

[egontoast]

Not saying it can’t be done but I’ve never seen them used effectively except once where they were used to rehab a giraffe and only for a few sessions.

Experiences will vary but 99.9% of people I have seen using them, jam the horse into a frame and think it is good.

Not anti drawrein at all but anti misuse of drawrein which seems to be fairly rampant.

[millerra]

I am NO expert on drawreins and have seen them used effectively and w/out apparent side effects by a BNT. That said - I personally own a horse where I know that they were used and feel that they had an undesirable effect.

He was a giraffe horse. Draw reins taught him to go in a frame. Period. He wouldn’t move his head or neck at all OR connect to the bit. His mouth was “hard” in that he rigidly kept himself in one position, period. It took me a very long time to teach him correct contact - to seek the bit w/ a soft, chewy, alive feel and let go with his topline. And I had to spend a long time (months) during the first part of the ride w/ ears in my face… but he eventually learned I wasn’t going to grab him and he would relax his head/neck. After that, I was able to teach him to seek the bit and really come over his back and from behind. But it was a long long process. I wouldn’t wish that on any one or any horse.

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=Rival;3069350]
I don’t really understand why people get so upset about draw reins. It isn’t a fixed rein used to tie the horses head down. (ie QUOTE]

You are right but unfortunately very often used for just that purpose…and for far too long in duration.

[InsideLeg2OutsideRei]

[QUOTE=SillyHorse;3069363]
I’ve been around for a long time, but I guess I’ve never seen draw reins used correctly because I’ve never seen them with any slack.[/QUOTE]

Here you go:
http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m199/Centaura88/?action=view&current=trot_diagonal.jpg

Ducking now. No need to critique me. That’s what I’m taking lessons on this schoolmaster for : ) I’m in the process of graduating to a double bridle, and the drawreins helped me sort out the reins.

[Gracie]

I have yet to see a rider using draw reins need them for any other purpose than to mask the fact that they cannot correctly ride the horse. Most riders I’ve observed (and trainers!) have used them to get the rider – not the horse – to experience the feel of a horse on the bit. When the rider discovers they can’t get the horse on the bit on their own, back to the draw reins they go. What was used as a temporary fix becomes a permanent tool, comparable to a side reins in their mind.

My horse’s previous owner fell into that category. The years of riding with draw reins even affected her neck and back muscle development. It took me almost a year to get the horse to get out of that draw rein-contrived artificial frame and really use her back and shoulder and accept the bit willingly. We still have throughness issues, but that’s getting better every ride.

A rider is better off learning WHY the horse is avoiding the bit and connection. Then set up the long process to overcome that problem instead of looking to a potential dangerous quick fix such as draw reins or (gasp!) chambon.

[Timex]

I used to ride a mare i had with draw reins because she had a terrible habit of rearing - and I have no death wish. I’m a pretty competant rider, in my own humble opinion, but given the options, either ride with draw reins or tempt fate with a 1500 lbs animal, i took the draw reins. and i used them correctly, as others have described, with a big ol’ loop in them. Much the same way i was taught to ride with a pelham as a youngster.

[petitefilly]

[QUOTE=InsideLeg2OutsideRein;3069823]
Here you go:
http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m199/Centaura88/?action=view&current=trot_diagonal.jpg

Ducking now. No need to critique me. That’s what I’m taking lessons on this schoolmaster for : ) I’m in the process of graduating to a double bridle, and the drawreins helped me sort out the reins.[/QUOTE]

You actually are using the draw reins in a less than severe way, by attaching them to the side of the girth you are incorporating them more as side reins to the hand. Vienna reins. The usage of draw reins from the word DRAW is to attach them under the chest to the middle of the girth “drawing” the head downward.

What happens pretty much 99.8% of the time is a horse leaning on the draw rein with a heavy hand. Clearly being forced into a position, this is what has all the anti-draw reins camp so inflamed. MHO a Professional who uses them is at his/her wits end, the horse is horrible. But, hey, if the horse is that bad you might as well try them, along with the kitchen sink.

Most people do not want to deal with an animal if it takes on this turn of events. There are too many good horses out there to ride, so the bully-boy-from-cement-head goes by the roadside to have a less than adequate rider use the draw reins as a means to an end. The end seldom results in a soft willing over the back horse. Crummy, eh?

[Lieslot]

@SillyHorse

I’ve been around for a long time, but I guess I’ve never seen draw reins used correctly because I’ve never seen them with any slack.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2055179120103033870mSmURo

Well, sooo much slack that actually it ain’t looking right anymore, a little more slack and his legs get caught :lol:.

I used them for the just-in-case scenario each time I rode this boy. Ex-steeplechaser ready to rodeo at the drop of a leaf.
Had 3 trainers, of which all 3 refused to sit on him.
Drawreins where my mental safe-haven and gave me a ( insert “probably false”) sense of security when riding him.
In hindsight with that type of slack, by the time I would have had the drawreins anywhere near effective I would have been off already :D. But ‘he’ knew when they were there.

I don’t like drawreins all that much, have seen too many horses ending up in front of the vertical when you take them away after having been ridden in them too long. But then again I am no expert and very much a novice

[rothmpp]

[QUOTE=Timex;3070094]
I used to ride a mare i had with draw reins because she had a terrible habit of rearing - and I have no death wish. I’m a pretty competant rider, in my own humble opinion, but given the options, either ride with draw reins or tempt fate with a 1500 lbs animal, i took the draw reins. and i used them correctly, as others have described, with a big ol’ loop in them. Much the same way i was taught to ride with a pelham as a youngster.[/QUOTE]

Agree - I used vienna reins attached to the side, not underneath, on a retrain project that was prone to rearing when trying to avoid work. I did not want to break my nose (again), and the loosely adjusted vienna reins were enough to remind him that rearing and head throwing was unacceptable. Once he was more trusting of me, off they went.

I think that properly used for a specific issue over a short time, they can serve a purpose, but not for a long time.

BTW, the horse in question went on to earn high 60’s at fourth before being retired for a unrelated injury.

[Lieslot]

@millerra

That said - I personally own a horse where I know that they were used and feel that they had an undesirable effect.

Similar story here. My grey has the 2nd to 3rd neck vetebrae bulging. Chiro once wondered whether if related to use of drawreins or RK. I know he had both in the past.
Easily worried about what you’ll be doing to his mouth, giraffe-like built neck and as you described ears literally in your face when he’s get only slightly worried about too much contact. I’m still working on getting him to trust that contact and not either duck to his chin or gaze the stars. He loves & trusts nosepressure much more, but that’s no use in dressage really :sadsmile:.
However we are progressing :).

[NowThatsATrot]

[QUOTE=Gracie;3070088]
Most riders I’ve observed (and trainers!) have used them to get the rider – not the horse – to experience the feel of a horse on the bit. [/QUOTE]

When I was a working student a few years back, the [eventer] trainer frequently used draw reins no matter what she was riding – and she had me do the same, as I had never learned how to put a horse to the aids, and tended to be a very “noninvolved” rider. (Sitting quietly, no contact until I needed it, etc.)

However, the above quote is more or less what happened, whether by accident or design I’ll never be sure… I learned how to use my seat and core to push a horse into the bridle, without worrying too much about what my hands were doing. (Well, no, I was worrying like hell about my hands, because I was convinced draw reins were evil, so I learned to keep them very, very still. :lol:) Granted, I never DID really figure out my hands when I was riding with her, but when I started with another trainer the following spring I had at least the memory of how to use my seat, and how it felt when it was almost right, and it helped tremendously.