I personally believe draw reins do far more harm than good. Maybe if used perfectly they’d be helpful, but I’ve never seen that happen. Everyday I deal with 2 different horses with major connection and trust issues from being forced round with draw reins. And these aren’t the first 2 either, just 2 of many. Typically people like to use draw reins on horses who have very tight,tough polls and you just don’t want to give. They seem to be a quicker fix but in reality they aren’t. If someone has bad hands put them on a lunge line and teach them good hands, don’t strap on another device. Slow and steady wins the race.
Great post!
I am re-posting what I wrote on the Eventing forum:
"Draw reins apply LEVERAGE to the horses mouth, making the bit some 100 times more severe.
Nothing productive comes out of them, only a false frame. Most horses ridden in draw reins for any length of time are practically ruined for dressage, as they learn to back away from contact, and that can be VERY hard to fix. In dressage, we want our horses to move confidently into contact from behind. Otherwise they are being ridden from front to back.
And about the comment of it being better than riders pulling, see-sawing, & ect, I just have to say :no:. It’s all wrong. None of it is correct dressage."
There are very well respected top trainers who use them and I don’t believe the horses they train are all ‘ruined’ so I do think they can be used properly.
Hunter training speaking up here… I believe a draw rein can be very useful when used correctly. Having said that, I almost never allow my students to use them and if I do, it is only with supervision. Most riders use them to pull the horse’s head down and then just lock them there. Therein lies the problem. Used correctly, I believe you can teach a horse to give- but you have to let go then! Most riders (hunter and dressage) don’t want to let go of their horse’s head. And before you dressage types enlighten me as to the dressage horse being “on the bit”, or “maintaining contact”, may I respectfully state that I teach “self carriage.” I have my riders test this by “dropping the horse” off contact sometimes (inside rein when bending on a circle, both reins when trotting a pole).
In the wrong hands, drawreins are abused and dangerous. In the right hands, they can be used correctly and effective and one would never know. I have a Welsh Cob that I ride in drawreins. He has a lovely lower neck that could be huge if i didn’t have drawreins there to reminder him not to stick his lower neck out and be pony-minded. When he stays in the place I want him, the drawreins are slack. When he resists, a gentle reminder, then slack again. For me, drawreins are the riding version of Vienna sidereins with the ability to loosen as needed.
I do not like draw reins AT ALL. Every horse I see use them falls into an artificial almost still frame and is not using thier back properly. My horse comes round, gives and uses his back and hind end and I have never touched him with anything else aside from a snaffle bridle and my reins. (Face wise) As mentioned look at why the horse isn’t becoming soft and work on the problem from there. Don’t force it. It does take time.
I am always astounded to read what some perceive the purpose of draw reins to be and it all swirls around a frame, a head set, and worse yet, giving to the bit.
None are the intended purpose of draw reins.
However, if one can show the horse the way to the ground using draw reins, they can also do it without.
One very good source: “Riding Logic” - Waldimar Muesler.
What is the intention of draw reins?
I would like to understand.
I have yet to come across a horse who is totally not receptive to correct training despite the fact he is comfortable.
While I do agree with you, do read the section on draw reins in Riding Logic. Also Karl Mikolka news letter has an article on the use and the purpose.
If nothing else, it will put the supposed intended purpose of use for a frame, a head set, giving to the bit, vertical flexion (etc) once and for all to rest.
DancingQueen wrote:
I made a statement in hunter/jumper
“Draw reins when used correctly can be very useful and even when used incorrectly they will not do much damage but rather give a horse a quite restingplace somewhere on the forehand.
I don’t really understand the aversion towards the drawrein that is comparably mild compared with an unsteady hand or a severe bit rather then trying to understand, encourage and appreciate the many benefits of this aid.”
I was questioned on it and my reply was
"In my opinion
Compared to the yanking pulling and seesawing one often sees with riders who understands that “a frame” is desirable but still lacks the ability to properly ride a horse so that the horse naturally finds a good frame as a result of working in correct balance and responding to correct aids the right way, the drawrein can be sheer bliss and way less harmful"
I was encouraged to crosspost for dressage/eventer opinions on the drawrein in general and my opinions in particular so here I am.
Please let me know what you think, let it rip, I can take it and I appreciate an educated opinion and your input.
It depends on what is trying to be accomplished…
If you are trying to create a ‘frame’ to satisfy observers who won’t recognize the subtle distortions in the horse’s gaits brought on by the horse’s underlying imbalance and tension then draw reins might do the trick.
However, dressage is nature oriented training which works within the limits of how horses naturally move and behave. It is based on two-way communication that gives the horse freedom to express itself in natural movement. If the rider establishes an appropriate rhythm, alignment and relaxation then a correct posture will happen automatically.
A horse that has been taught to put its head down in response to pressure uses its body very differently from a horse that works freely through its body and reaches for contact in response to a correct rhythm, basic alignment and relaxation. In the long run, restricting the natural freedom of the horse hinders engagement and, more importantly, takes away its voice and gives the rider garbled feedback as to the horse’s true state of balance. Equipment that restricts/masks a horse’s natural expression of imbalance and discomfort works contrary to the purposes of dressage training.
Instead of masking the horse’s tension, the rider should be investigating the cause of the tension. Is the rider imbalanced, tense, using inappropriate aids or is the contact inconsistent or too strong? Or is the horse in the wrong tempo, tense, crooked or unresponsive to the driving aids or experiencing pain from joint or muscle soreness, ill-fitting tack, sharp teeth, etc. Once these issues are sufficiently addressed, the horse can mentally and physically settle into the work. Some horses require a great deal of tact but NONE will ignore a rider that works the horse in harmony with its nature.
[QUOTE=kaluha2;3071400]
While I do agree with you, do read the section on draw reins in Riding Logic. Also Karl Mikolka news letter has an article on the use and the purpose.
If nothing else, it will put the supposed intended purpose of use for a frame, a head set, giving to the bit, vertical flexion (etc) once and for all to rest.[/QUOTE]
since i don’t have either the book or the newsletter and you have read both, can you please provide a synopsis of your understanding?
You really need to make the effort to read for yourself. The book has been in print for generations and it would really help if you had your own copy. It is a wonderful book to add to your bookcase as it explains in depth many of the topics that are hashed and rehashed over and over again on this forum alone. I would recommend reading the book several times though and not just once.
The articles have been discussed on line for several years now and if you do a search you will find them. There is a wealth of knowledge out there ripe for the picking. All that’s needed is effort.
in other words, you have no idea what drawreins are for and did not retain anything that the authors mentioned?
Quite on the contrary darlinkie. Your the one asking the questions. I’m not into spoon feeding.
It would behoove you to pick up the book and educate yourself.
[QUOTE=Tonja;3071626]
DancingQueen wrote:
It depends on what is trying to be accomplished…
If you are trying to create a ‘frame’ to satisfy observers who won’t recognize the subtle distortions in the horse’s gaits brought on by the horse’s underlying imbalance and tension then draw reins might do the trick.
However, dressage is nature oriented training which works within the limits of how horses naturally move and behave. It is based on two-way communication that gives the horse freedom to express itself in natural movement. If the rider establishes an appropriate rhythm, alignment and relaxation then a correct posture will happen automatically.
A horse that has been taught to put its head down in response to pressure uses its body very differently from a horse that works freely through its body and reaches for contact in response to a correct rhythm, basic alignment and relaxation. In the long run, restricting the natural freedom of the horse hinders engagement and, more importantly, takes away its voice and gives the rider garbled feedback as to the horse’s true state of balance. Equipment that restricts/masks a horse’s natural expression of imbalance and discomfort works contrary to the purposes of dressage training.
Instead of masking the horse’s tension, the rider should be investigating the cause of the tension. Is the rider imbalanced, tense, using inappropriate aids or is the contact inconsistent or too strong? Or is the horse in the wrong tempo, tense, crooked or unresponsive to the driving aids or experiencing pain from joint or muscle soreness, ill-fitting tack, sharp teeth, etc. Once these issues are sufficiently addressed, the horse can mentally and physically settle into the work. Some horses require a great deal of tact but NONE will ignore a rider that works the horse in harmony with its nature.[/QUOTE]
I see what you are saying but I think this is a little “idealistic” and not necessarily “realistic”. It would be nice if every horse was able to be trained “by the book”, so to speak, but now and again a competent and correct rider will need a little extra help to over come a problem. Used correctly and competently they can help and do not ALWAYS make more problems then were started with. Yes, used incorrectly they can be like a knife in the hands of a monkey but in skilled hands they can help over come obstacles that good correct riding, no matter how well done, can’t overcome. If I have a horse that I have to put them on I use them, the horse gets it and then they come off.
[QUOTE=kaluha2;3072079]
Quite on the contrary darlinkie. Your the one asking the questions. I’m not into spoon feeding.
It would behoove you to pick up the book and educate yourself.[/QUOTE]
i’m only asking questions because you had to jump into the conversation to tell everyone that they were wrong about what drawreins were used for. but then you refused to share your magnificent book-learnin’ with us. i have no questions about drawreins and no need to research them. i’ve never used them and i never will because i see their purpose as merely creating “a frame, a head set, and worse yet, giving to the bit” which i’m not really interested in.
if you have some great insight about what they are REALLY for that no one else seems to know, then either share it with people or pipe down and quit trying to look smarter than everyone else. are you an slc alter or something?
I have read and studied (back in the early eighties) Wilhelm Museler’s, Riding Logic, and I don’t remember his explaining exactly what draw riens were supposed to be used for, BUT I do remember that he implied that they were used to “show the horse the way to the ground”. I interpreted that to mean to ask and show the horse to softly reach down into the bit and arch the back while moving forward without losing rythym. Museler did mention that if a rider cannot “show the horse the way to the ground” within the first 30 minutes of getting on a particular horse, than that particular rider would probably never be able to accomplish it, with any type of aid, natural or unnatural, because that rider would not have a sufficient understanding or the necessary skill of what he was attempting to accomplish in the first place, on said particular horse.
I took that to mean that either the particular rider wasn’t skilled enough to tackle a particular horse, OR said horse was beyond reasonable redemption.
thanks baroque pony! it would be oh-so-handy to use drawreins if they could show the horse that his nose should go down and out, and not down and in. perhaps that is how some people are able to use them, but as others have mentioned, i’ve never seen it actually happen.
goingforbaroque wrote:
I see what you are saying but I think this is a little “idealistic” and not necessarily “realistic”. It would be nice if every horse was able to be trained “by the book”, so to speak, but now and again a competent and correct rider will need a little extra help to over come a problem. Used correctly and competently they can help and do not ALWAYS make more problems then were started with. Yes, used incorrectly they can be like a knife in the hands of a monkey but in skilled hands they can help over come obstacles that good correct riding, no matter how well done, can’t overcome. If I have a horse that I have to put them on I use them, the horse gets it and then they come off.
It is realistic to expect the basics, when applied tactfully, work very well.
[QUOTE=class;3072380]
i’ve never used them and i never will because i see their purpose as merely creating “a frame, a head set, and worse yet, giving to the bit” which i’m not really interested in. [/QUOTE]
Are you saying giving to the bit is bad? I’ve been taught that you want your horse to give. Unless we have different ideas of what giving to the bit is…?
If the point of drawreins is only to prevent the horse from raising his head too high, why not just use a martingale? I always ride my mare in a running martingale to keep me concussion-free. I don’t really think it’s possible to abuse one, unless you somehow adjust it ridiculously short. The only problem I have is it’s next to impossible to use an opening rein. But we’ve managed regardless.
