So the rule book says “stock or tie or integrated stand up collar”.
WTF is an integrated stand up collar? I have a show shirt that zips up, like a mock turtleneck, w/ loop in the back to hold stock tie. Is this good enough? I would love one less white thing…
Or do I have to buy something that has ruffles or otherwise looks like it has a stock tie?
Then there’s the following question: Will people still wear stock ties even if they don’t have to? Am I dodging tradition by being cheap or lazy?
Look on page 4 for pictures of what “integrated stand-up collar” means:
https://www.usef.org/documents/licensedOfficials/education/2016DressageAttireEquipmentBooklet.pdf
Your shirt is good. Technically, you’re not supposed to wear something like a polo, even though everyone does. I was scribing yesterday and the judge mentioned that about someone riding in a polo, but she didn’t care at all. I’ve asked TD’s about polos before, too, and they were fine. I guess if someone wanted to be nasty, they could eliminate you for wearing a polo, where the collar folds down.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8625662]
Your shirt is good. Technically, you’re not supposed to wear something like a polo, even though everyone does. I was scribing yesterday and the judge mentioned that about someone riding in a polo, but she didn’t care at all. I’ve asked TD’s about polos before, too, and they were fine. I guess if someone wanted to be nasty, they could eliminate you for wearing a polo, where the collar folds down.[/QUOTE]
really? must be your area. I never see polos.
I have the standup collar mountain horse anyways, but if you know it’s wrong why take a chance?
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8625662]
Your shirt is good. Technically, you’re not supposed to wear something like a polo, even though everyone does. I was scribing yesterday and the judge mentioned that about someone riding in a polo, but she didn’t care at all. I’ve asked TD’s about polos before, too, and they were fine. I guess if someone wanted to be nasty, they could eliminate you for wearing a polo, where the collar folds down.[/QUOTE]
I’m confused. Are you suggesting that a polo or other shirt with the collar folding down, when worn without a tie is technically wrong? Or do you mean when worn WITH a tie?
Where are you getting that it is technically wrong?
[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8625746]
I’m confused. Are you suggesting that a polo or other shirt with the collar folding down, when worn without a tie is technically wrong? Or do you mean when worn WITH a tie?
Where are you getting that it is technically wrong?[/QUOTE]
DR120 Dress1. The dress code for all Dressage tests and classes through Fourth Level(see .5 below) is a short riding coat of conservative color, with tie, choker,stock tie or integrated stand-up collar, white or light-colored breeches orjodhpurs, boots or jodhpur boots, and protective headgear as defined inDR120.6 and in compliance with GR801…
so you can wear a dress shirt with a tie, yes. not a polo. if you have no neck-wear it has to be a standup collar. you can’t just wear a fold down polo with no neck-wear.
Yes, you can wear a polo with a tie. It doesn’t say anything about “dress shirt” in what you just quoted. It doesn’t address the shirt at all in that passage, only the coat, and the tie.
You can wear the polo with its fold-down collar without the tie, when jackets are waived. When jackets are waived ties are prohibited altogether.
Of course you can wear a polo shirt. The rings are full of polo shirts. I’ve worn them dozens of times myself, with my neckties and jackets. I haven’t (so far) ever done a test without a jacket even thought they’re waived at 90 percent of our shows.
The only time a polo or golf shirt wouldn’t comply is when you’re wearing a coat and attempting to skip the tie.
People around here wear polo shirts all of the time. Technically, that’s not OK by dress code because it’s not a stand up collar, but it’s never been an issue. This is what I mean by a polo, so maybe it’s not the same:
http://www.salstshirts.com/Golf_PoloShirts.html
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8625796]
People around here wear polo shirts all of the time. Technically, that’s not OK by dress code because it’s not a stand up collar, but it’s never been an issue. This is what I mean by a polo, so maybe it’s not the same:
http://www.salstshirts.com/Golf_PoloShirts.html[/QUOTE]
Yes, thats exactly the kind of shirt I mean. I have two for showing, one white and one blue.
But do you mean they try to wear that shirt with a coat, but WITHOUT a tie? In that case, correct, it’s not allowed. WITH a tie, though, it’s not wrong in any way at all. Not technically, not implicitly, not at all wrong.
The integrated stand up collar rule (which is very new) follows the word OR. It’s a stock tie, tie, OR integrated stand up collar. If a rider’s selected option among those ORs is the tie, or the stock tie, then there’s no rule at all about the collar standing up or folding down. Or polo shirt versus dress shirt.
The collar only has to be standing up, by the rule, if the rider’s choice is to wear no tie at all. See?
This is not allowed:
This, worn with a coat on over it, IS allowed:
Thanks Silverbridge!!
[QUOTE=Libby2563;8625643]
Look on page 4 for pictures of what “integrated stand-up collar” means:
Thanks! This was helpful; somehow missed the “dress code for dummies” booklet. Now I can calmly look for a slightly fancier stand up collar shirt but live with my old one for a while.
Moutain horse has a nice navy one that isn’t a lot of money.
[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8625809]
Yes, thats exactly the kind of shirt I mean. I have two for showing, one white and one blue.
But do you mean they try to wear that shirt with a coat, but WITHOUT a tie? In that case, correct, it’s not allowed. WITH a tie, though, it’s not wrong in any way at all. Not technically, not implicitly, not at all wrong.
The integrated stand up collar rule (which is very new) follows the word OR. It’s a stock tie, tie, OR integrated stand up collar. If a rider’s selected option among those ORs is the tie, or the stock tie, then there’s no rule at all about the collar standing up or folding down. Or polo shirt versus dress shirt. [/QUOTE]
Yes, I know that’s what the rule says. What I’m trying to say is around here, many wear a polo with a fold over collar, neck open and its fine. The judge mentioned yesterday it was “illegal” and she doesn’t care. I’ve repeatedly asked TD’s when I wear a polo WITH a fold over color and the neck open if it’s OK, and they say yes.
Ah. Found it. Here’s our own TM and photos of the young riders wearing polos with fold down collars and the neck open. https://terrimiller.wordpress.com/tag/najyrc/
There is nothing illegal about those shirts with open collars, because they are not wearing jackets with them. Clearly jackets have been waived, if those are from a recognized competition.
When jackets are waived, any shirt with the neck open is fine. Because when jackets are waived TIES ARE NOT ALLOWED.
The integrated standup collar SUBSTITUTES for a tie, when the rider IS wearing a jacket. Jacket and tie OR Jacket and integrated standup collar, these are the choices.
These polos in the picture are totally and completely legal and allowed under the rules, with the neck open when jackets are waived. If jackets were not waived then they are in violation for that more than for wearing a collared shirt with no tie.
Since the OP was only talking about the shirt, this whole whole thread has been about the shirt to wear. I was not making the assumption she meant WITH a coat.
Coats are required in competition, that is the first line of the dress code.
I’ve asked you repeatedly whether you are saying that people in your area are wearing polo shirts with no tie with their jackets on (not allowed). You never actually have answered that, but the pictures you posted are of people wearing polos not with jackets or ties. (allowed, when jackets are waived).
Am I inferring wrongly from the photos? Those are NOT what you mean, but in fact you mean riders wear shirts like that with the neck open and a coat on over it? All the time? “Around there”?
Like the look in my first link? Like this?
To the OP: What’s above in the link I showed is not allowed. If you want to wear your coat with NO tie, then, you’ll need to get one of the integrated standup collars you asked about at the beginning.
If you opt to wear a tie of any kind, however, (Bow tie, stock tie, normal necktie, ascot,) then it does not matter what kind of shirt you have on with your jacket and tie. And if jackets are waived due to heat, you must remove the tie, too. But whatever shirt you have on is still fine, as long as it isn’t sleeveless.
You don’t have to go change your shirt to an “approved” integrated standup collar shirt whenever jackets are waived. That’s a misinterpretation that apparently even some judges (?) are making.
People are confusing a kind of shirt, that has been approved as an acceptable replacement for a shirt and tie paired with a jacket, as being the only type of shirt allowed to show in. That isn’t the case.
It looks like there is confusion about the shirt required vs neck wear when wearing a jacket. Any shirt is ok with the jacket as long as you have a tie or stock tie. If you don’t want to wear a stock tie you can wear a shirt that has a built in stock tie per the examples shown in the pamphlet. However when jackets are waived see rule below:
8. In locations with high average heat and humidity on the date of a competition, management can publish in their prize list that jackets will be waived for the duration of the competition. Alternatively, management can announce prior to or during a competition that competitors can show without jackets when extreme heat and/or humidity is forecast. This waiver applies to all classes including FEI classes at National Competitions. However, competitors must wear protective headgear and a shirt with sleeves and collar, without neckwear, and without decoration except as described under .15 below. T-shirts are not permitted.
In other words when you are wearing a jacket, you can wear a sleeveless shirt, t-shirt or whatever as long as you have a stock tie. If you don’t like a stock tie you can wear a shirt with a standup collar.
If jackets are waived, no sleeveless or t-shirts. Also no stock tie or tie is allowed. If you have a standup collar you should not have it buttoned up to the top. The idea is to prevent heat stroke and have good ventilation. I have seen judges stop riders and ask them to unbutton top button as they are riding around the arena.
Yes, the pictures I posted are exactly what I mean. People wear JUST polos with a collar and are open. That’s what the young riders were wearing. You did not ask about wearing a polo with a jacket. You just said a polo and a tie. We were focusing on two different things.
I think this the comment that is causing the confusion. So, was the judge saying that a polo was illegal when jackets were waived?
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8625662]
Your shirt is good. Technically, you’re not supposed to wear something like a polo, even though everyone does. I was scribing yesterday and the judge mentioned that about someone riding in a polo, but she didn’t care at all. I’ve asked TD’s about polos before, too, and they were fine. I guess if someone wanted to be nasty, they could eliminate you for wearing a polo, where the collar folds down.[/QUOTE]
Yes that is the comment with the incorrect info, to which I was replying. Polos aren’t “technically” not supposed to be worn. They’re fine, as the TD told you. Always fine, not a cause for elimination, no matter who complains.
Except apparently as AZ TD noted, if they have something considered to be too much decoration.
But counter to what’s stated there, the folding-down collar of a polo carries no penalty in either instance: With your tie and jacket when it’s temperate, or by itself with open neck when it’s too hot for coats.
A polo is fine, it’s allowed, it’s no problem.
Whew!
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