DRESSAGE GAITS - Fact or Fallacy?

Of course it is easier if you start with good gaits. Gaits can be improved, absolutely yes, but if you start with an 8 mover, you have no improvement and you have an 8 mover. If you start with a 6 mover, you will have to ride that much better to get the horse to 7. That is a huge over-simplification, obviously, but if you start with the gaits, everything will be easier. In the past 20 years, there has been much more emphasis put on quality of the gaits - every single test movement talks about quality of the gaits (if you looked at a dressage test from 20 or 30 years ago, you wouldn’t see that language), that more and more people just want to start with the “easy” points if they can afford it - buy the fancier gaits.

But good basics and FITNESS help improve gaits. You can, through riding and training, affect a horse’s balance - if they are using themselves better, lifting their front end more, the reach and scope of the gait will improve. Someone said that a horse must learn to extend and collect - and that isn’t entirely true. The super scopey young horses often offer this up very early in their riding. A less scopey mover is going to develop it through training and fitness.

The other thing to be aware of - the way a horse naturally moves is always going to be something you deal with in training. I’ll give you an example - I have a young mare who is naturally pretty cadenced and rhythmic. She doesn’t have a natural front leg extension though - it has taken her a long time to figure out how to reach OUT instead of lifting her knees higher and higher. She’s getting it now, and it is super powerful looking. However, she was never one to get quick and scrambling, that is not her natural way of moving. When you deal with a horse who just gets quicker, tighter, and shorter when pushed, it is going to be harder to teach them to extend because their natural way is - quicker, tighter, and shorter. Some of the Iberian horses struggle with that, as an example.

So the answer to your question is - yes and no.

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I am very impressed with everybody but still I don’t believe anything written about improving gaits unless I see it in Person. I watched the Robert Dover Clinic and even there you could see how well trained riders struggled to get out good movement out of their very expensive horses. Many horses I see here do not go over their back. And there are some expensive horses around. And I didn’t say all horses… and I know some posters here do improve their gaits but it’s not as easy as you make it sound… if it would be I wonder why people buy horses which show nice gaits.

Good lord who claimed it was easy?! It’s a simple concept and recipe, yes, but easy? Let’s face it the concept requires dedication and often in the form of hours with your ass in the saddle and that’s your ass with a head that’s making the right decisions and reactions to make sure you’re keeping your horse in balance, moving forward, and yes over it’s back. The initial component of the question, I believe was that, is it possible?

LOL, I have to admit while I insist I am very average, a german trainer I took rode in regular clinics with kept saying that I wasn’t the average US rider…no, I rode for a few year’s under Ann Kulak, Marcia Kulak’s mother for anyone who’s familiar with eventing. Between she and my grandfather I never expected dedication to the horse or to my riding to be easy. Maybe it’s my age, maybe it’s my own fantasy and thus fallacy; but, transformations have been captured in pictures, test scores, video, etc…so at least my delusions have some traction :wink:

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I’m struggling to follow your arguments here. Aren’t rhythm and relaxation at the very base of the training pyramid? Wouldn’t establishing appropriate rhythm/tempo and working over the back with suppleness count as good basic dressage riding?

Add me to your requested list of participants in this conversation who believe they’ve improved their horse’s gaits. My mare was known as ‘the horse who can’t canter’ at the first barn I boarded her at. Now her canter is the thing that judges and trainers remark upon first – it’s got suppleness and jump and is (after years of hard work) a joy to ride. We won’t ever outscore a purpose-bred horse with flashy movement on extended trot and we won’t ever appear at elite levels of competition, but we’ve got 3 balanced, adjustable, correct, (even expressive!) gaits now where we started with a decent walk, a tight trot, and chaos at canter. I won’t pretend that I didn’t use my limited ammy inklings about movement potential when I took this particular horse on, but I certainly didn’t foresee the degree to which competent riding, building strength and balance, and input from excellent trainers has improved her movement. I have no illusions about how her movement compares to innately good movers, though.

As for why people buy horses with nice natural movement even though to some extent movement can be improved, it’s exactly as @MysticOakRanch said. If you start with nice movement and don’t improve it, you still have a nice mover. If you start with an average or below-average mover, you can sometimes improve that movement to some limited extent, but you still may not have a great mover. The reason that some of us don’t buy horses with nice natural movement is that we simply can’t afford it. And we see the value in practicing dressage with ordinary horses, even if that puts a ceiling on our dressage achievements.

You don’t have to believe any of us about how our horses go. It matters not one iota to me what you imagine my horse’s movement to be. I do find it funny, though, that the same poster who called for personal testimonies about improving movement only to sneer at the same as not believable is one who frequently admonishes forum users not to question the motives or veracity of other posts.

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You are so condescending, I don’t even know why I bother responding to one of your diatribe.

Get off your high horse for once…

No one said it was easy…

How are your horses?

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My coach teaches us to work the horses over the back. All the horses gaits improve. My horses gaits have noticeably improved even in turnout :). She’s never going to have “dressage gaits.” But she is moving far more correctly.

On the other hand I see folks who buy horses that have nice gaits, who then proceed to ride them rolled under and choke them back to a pony trot.

Those horses tend to break down young.

No you cannot make any horse into a 9 mover.

But you can improve any horse.

It’s not rocket science.

But it is also true lots of folks don’t nt know how to do it.

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LOL, again, definite improvement on my mare, taken a couple of years…she was a $1500, been out to pasture for 2 years, grade mare. So we took a really crap trot, and have turned it to a fairly consistent 7, rather than 5 or 6 that we were scoring. At my end of the sand box improvements are easier to come by, easier than in the upper levels maybe.

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At the lower levels those bred gaits get points that non fancy horses don’t get.

I saw this in my WB youngster. His lazy ass trot still tracked up, but my QH had to work to track up. My WB youngster had a distinct overtrack when he got working like my QH.

My TBxQH has improved his gaits quite a lot, to the point that he offers the improved quality gait without being asked.

It makes me excited to see what my WB will be like when he improves to a similar degree. I am seeing changes in his canter that are very exciting and encouraging, and feeling smaller changes in his trot that are also encouraging.

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What is this, “pics or it didn’t happen”?

How disheartening.

I think the point to be made here is that yes, gaits can be improved. They do not exist in a vacuum and many things influence the quality, such as relaxation, strength, balance (and just about everything else on the training pyramid or alluded to on it).

People in their commenting have done a very nice job, I think, of making the point that it isn’t something that every rider can do, but it can be done. It’s often long, arduous work and I think a lot of it involves stripping things down to the basics. I feel like I’ve seen you recommend Ingrid Klimke’s cavaletti book before, which is just one of many fabulous approaches to helping work on the quality of gaits.

Will every rider improve every horse? God, no. Let’s be realistic. But improving gaits isn’t necessarily rarified air, either. (And I think there’s also room for riders to go “hey, listen, I’m not capable of improving my horse’s gaits at this point in time but I know it can be done and/or I work with a professional because I know I can’t do it alone.” Gatekeeping this conversation to restrict solely to those who can/have improved gaits seems to lack some nuance.)

Going out and buying a purpose-bred (“expensive horse” as you reference in the post above) isn’t the only way to approach dressage, and I think the fact that we can have that diversity in our sport is something to be encouraged.

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Correct training definitely improves them, in every horse. Of course those more naturally gifted will have more extravagant gaits when trained, but no horse moves like that under saddle without correct training and skillful riding. Watch the Charlotte Dujardin masterclass from Central Park where she rode Evi Strasser’s grey gelding to see just how much good dressage can improve gait quality. Even better, search back to find videos of Valegro in Carl Hester symposiums as a youngster, or any videos of Charlotte riding a long stretchy trot to cool him down. Until she asks for the suspension and collection which she has trained into him, Valegro’s trot looks quite ordinary.

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not sure either… But great for you that you believe everything written in the internet… My horses are doing great by the way… And I have one horse which I could probably use for claiming that I improved the gaits… but I think that is a big statement and there are so many things to consider that I prefer not to claim anything like that. She is a TB type which did not show a huge suspension under the rider in the beginning, but out in the pasture she does show very nice gaits without tension, so the goal for riding is to come back to that… So in order to truly say you improved the gaits , you need to see the horse trotting in the pasture without rider, then trotting with the rider after it was started and then sometimes later… And because I always try to analyze what I am doing with my horses I know how difficult it is to make such a statement… But I know I have no idea what I am talking about and you don’t need to answer me, because you have so much more knowledge…

and I did for sure not say that the only way to do dressage is to go and buy an expensive horse… I would never spend a lot of money for buying an expensive horse by the way… And I agree totally with your post… It can be done, but I am still not sure if everybody who claims he/she improved the gaits of their horse really did it… And yes I could just stop here and say ok… if everybody is happy to believe he improved his horse great… I probably should and I will…

I agree with your post completely!!!

Sorry - I haven’t quite figured out multiple quotes! What you did say above is “I wonder why people buy horses which show nice gaits” and I think that there’s a lot to appreciate in well bred horses who move nicely! They’re beautiful to look at and they’re delightful to work with. But I still whole heartedly believe that our sport has room to include horses that might not be as naturally talented in their way of going, and I think that we should all be mindful of remembering that. Some of the best moving horses that I can think of (professional) aren’t the ones who win (or even make it to GP - Florencio I think is a good example?) By comparison, Farbenfroh’s canter (WEG 2002) seems less than stellar but he still won. So we see this at the highest levels of sport (“Best moving” doesn’t automatically mean “winner”) and I think we should let that trickle down to all levels (to a point where we don’t have riders feeling like they’re immediately doomed to score lower on an entire test because they aren’t riding a warmblood).

Which, I allow, isn’t much that you commented on - but I thought it was important to state/clarify on my own part! Sorry about that.

The thing is, I think “improvement” can be tiny things, too! So perhaps not everyone who talks about improving their horse has taken a 5.5 mover to a 9 (or even a 7 mover to a 9, which would still be impressive!). I certainly haven’t! But I do know that I was able to gain more consistent (and higher scores) just by looking at small, basic details (like rhythm and relaxation) on my own horse. So perhaps we should also be mindful that it’s beneficial to allow for experiences like that to also be valid, because while perhaps the improvement isn’t as dramatic (or ultimately, as impressive), it’s still clear that there was improvement.

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I agree with you and I also believe that Dressage improves the horse, but I am not sure about the term “improving the gaits” There is so many things which are included in the term “gaits” Looseness, reach of the shoulder, lifting legs, suspension and so on… horses might miss a couple of these things and still are considered to have nice gaits… I think if a rider improves the way a horse uses his body the gaits might look different then before. But did they really become better or did the rider improve them??? Maybe just everything looks better because the horse knows better how to use his body. But I don’t really think you can change the way a horse moves… But maybe my way to look at it is too strict…

I’m confused as to the point of the OP’s question. Isn’t the whole point of dressage, ie training, to improve the development and movement of a horse’s gaits? If there is nothing there to improve, or if perfect GP horses came like that straight out of the box, why even ride or train? Of course gaits can be improved within the confines of what the horse’s conformation allows. The walk and canter are pretty much predicated on conformation, but the trot can be greatly improved since it’s the “balance” gait. Improve a trot and you’ve improved the gait.

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I think this is a great post.

Helping the horse to learn to improve rhythm, relaxation, straightness, etc, will help improve the horse’s way of going. So yes, riders can and do improve the gaits of the horses they ride. If a rider is able to teach a horse how to use its body better, enough so a difference is noted in the gaits, then yes, the rider improved that horse’s gaits. The horse didn’t just magically decide to carry himself differently…he had to be taught that.

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I looked up the OP again and decided to give a direct answer to the post. I don’t think Gaits are the most important part of the question anyhow…

My personal answer to the OPs post… Warmbloods (dressage and Jumper lines) have been bred to pursue the sport of dressage. A lot of work was put into figuring out how to breed this type. So if you have a Warmblood with nice gaits probably many things will come easy to you.
If you don’t have a horse like this for whatever reason you can still ride dressage. If you are lucky a lot of things will still come easy to your horse, but there is a much bigger chance that everything might be a little more difficult and the result will not look quite as it would look with a dressage bred horse. Some things might take longer and will take more skill and patience of the rider. Also Chances are that your horse will never look as flashy as a dressage bred horse. But I guess that depends on your goals. But if you train your horse correctly you will teach him to become more athletic and over all he will look better. And really you don’t know with any horse how it ends up. Germany had an Olympic horse some years ago who was bought as a companion for another foal. Obviously nobody ever heard from that other foal but Bonaparte turned out to go to the Olympics. You don’t know with any horse how far you will go
.

But still I think if you decide to pursue Dressage with a horse which is something else then a dressage bred Warmblood you need to be aware that there are more obstacles. The reward will be that if you make it you feel a lot better then if you simply buy a flashy horse…

From the USDF Training Manual which is quoting The Complete Training of Horse and Rider: “One of the chief aims of dressage is to obtain clear and pure gaits. The natural gaits of the horse should not only be preserved but should also be improved by the fact that the horse has been strengthened by gymnastics. Therefore, if during the course of training the natural paces are not improved, it would be proof that the training was incorrect.”

I just happened to read this last night.

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I agree it makes a difference if the question is being asked before you do horse shopping, or if it’s being asked in regard to how you move forward with a specific horse.

If you are shopping for a dressage specialist horse then you buy the best gaits you can afford and put the best training you can manage on those gaits.

If you already own a horse that you want to try dressage with, then yes you can improve how any horse moves

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