When someone tells you that their prices are just all “starting” prices and to make an offer…what does that mean? How low would be insulting?
Additionally, is it common in the east and south US to get a Lyme test as part of a prepurchase?
It depends… is the starting price above reasonable market price? That makes it easier to go down. I wouldn’t just ask if they’d take 50% of what they’re offering. On the other hand, I knew someone who was relocating who took far less than asking on some horses to get them good homes, where they could have seemed like insulting offers. It’s how you word an offer, too. Offering 10% below asking is pretty expected. If they’re asking something way out of your range but you know each other, tell them while you would be interested, you simply don’t have a budget near that price, see how they respond, and if you’re comfortable with their response then say what you could spend.
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I honestly think dressage horse prices are so inflated right now that I’m not sure what is fair market value, but the prices I was told as “starting prices” seem aligned with what I’ve seen.
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I’ve not heard of getting a Lyme Test as part of a prepurchase. Ask the local vet doing the exam if he/she recommends one.
I guess you have no idea of the costs to breed, raise, keep, and train these animal, do you? “So inflated” ROFL!
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How are you determining “inflated?” Relative to what you’re willing to pay? Because if the prices are aligned with others in the market…they’re not inflated.
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I’m hardly an expert in horse-buying (or selling) by any means, but if somebody basically is stating in the ad that their listed price is a “starting price” that seems like an invitation to low-ball.
In general, my rule of thumb is that an opening offer from a buyer can be 10 to 15% lower than the asking price without it being an insult to the seller. As long as you’re willing to bargain and come up a bit.
If a seller was stating that their listed price was only a starting price, I might (initially) offer a 20% lower bid; but I do think you risk ticking the seller off at that point.
If you think, for whatever reason, the horse is not worth a price within the range of the listed price minus 5 to 15%, then I think you just thank the seller for their time and look elsewhere.
I’m not sure I’d request a lyme test on a PPE; I agree with asking the vet who’s doing it. But you should definitely ask the seller up front about whether the horse has ever been diagnosed with or treated for lyme.
I think this is highly individual. Some people price their horses very fairly, in line with market value, and are firm on their prices. A lot of these people will state clearly in their ad that their price is not negotiable. If, though, they are listing the horse above value, they have either a) padded the price for negotiation or b) are totally out of touch with reality and think their horse is worth more than the going sales price of similar horses in their area (a case of “barn blindness”).
If the horse is priced above your budget, I would have a discussion with the seller not necessarily giving them your budget, but asking if the price is negotiable. You can usually get a feel from the seller within this discussion, to let you know whether to proceed or just thank the seller for their time and move along. And please, dear God, don’t go look at a horse above your budget in which the seller is firm. I know the few horses I have sold, I get really ticked off when someone comes out to look, loves the horse, and then reveal that their budget is half of what I am asking.
As for lyme testing as part of a regular PPE, this is a question for your vet. If it makes you feel better about purchasing, by all means I am sure the vet would be happy to oblige by testing (for a charge). I live in Florida, and haven’t ever tested for lyme as part of a PPE. But it depends on how much risk you are ok with, and your comfort level.
Also, I don’t feel most sellers are selling horses at “inflated” prices. It takes a LOT of money, time and effort to bring a dressage horse along whether from birth on, or with training in horses already being brought along. Is it depressing to look at prices and feel I could NEVER afford them? Of course. But just because I don’t have the money to buy a real quality dressage horse, trained or not, doesn’t mean the prices are inflated. It means I can’t afford them!
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I agree with asking the seller as part of your inquiries if the price is negotiable. I recently sold a mare for almost half of what I was asking for her because I really liked the home, and I had turned down 2 higher offers on her as I didn’t like either home. I didn’t state in the ad that the price was negotiable or not, and most of the people who inquired about her asked if I was flexible on the price. It’s a fair question, I didn’t mind being asked.
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10-15% below asking price is a typical opening offer. Many sellers expect to settle at 5-10% below asking price. If they’re telling you to make an offer, go a bit lower if you feel it’s still in line with the market.
As for Lyme test, yes - absolutely! We’ve done them as part of the standard PPE for 5 years or so now.
OP, what is your definition of “dressage horse”? A green horse with a lot of talent, or a horse confirmed in training and on it’s way “up the levels” with show record confirmation of this?
Certain breeds or bloodlines carry a premium for certain disciplines because the horses are likely to have more basic talent for that job.
But then training and showing a horse is extremely time consuming and expensive. Honestly, most horse don’t make steady improvement in a timely fashion unless there is a pro heavily involved or the ammie rider is exceptional and experienced. Otherwise you get the 13 year old horse who is showing Training and maybe First Level because that’s the rider’s own ceiling. Nothing wrong with that, but the horse probably doesn’t have either the foundation or the years ahead of it to make fast progress even with a new owner, in most cases
If you figure statistically that most riders don’t get past First level and maybe many pros (counting all the small time pros) don’t really get much above Second level, then there aren’t going to be numerically that many horses for sale that are really confirmed above First level. There’s a lot of horses out there that are “schooling Second level” but the show record shows 3 or 4 outings in Training, one outing in First (often a drop in score from Training), and nothing at Second.
so anyhow, I think if you find a horse with good breeding, good talent, good confirmed training, and of a youngish age, it will be rather pricey because of all the work that has gone into it.
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Your location of Connecticut is sort of the hotbed of Lyme, so that’s not surprising.
But, the test for Lyme disease only notes a previous exposure. It does not say that the horse is currently infected, nor does it predict whether the horse will show clinical signs. Sort of like EPM here in the south. A blood titer only shows exposure, does not say the horse is affected, nor does it predict clinical signs. You have to look further.
In both cases, a negative is good to have, but a positive blood titer does not mean doom.
And Lyme is not very prevalent in the south.
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In the southeast, no, Lyme would not be common. EPM would be a more likely test, and that isn’t going to be done most likely unless you are seeing something on the clinical exam that would make you question it. In which case, I’d think you’d just pass on the horse at that time. As yaya noted, most who have lived there for any length of time will show some exposure, and that may not be useful information anyway.
In a place where it’s common to pull an annual Lyme titre anyway due to prevalence of the disease, you may want to test for Lyme.
I’ve been looking at some horses started in dressage (with potential for jumping) because I’m finding the price for the basics installed on a young horse to be much more reasonable than looking over in jumper land! That said, the ones I’ve seen that look like high quality for a reasonable asking price have been selling fast, fast, fast (one owner even sent me xrays to send to my vet at but in less than a day the horse had already sold).
That said, some that look like they’d be the right match but when I ask for price if it is a little high, I’ll respond with, thanks but my budget is X. If they are flexible, they are pretty quick to respond with something like “oh, well we could be flexible for a ‘quick sale’” … If price is firm or a good bit higher than I expected, either the conversation stops or they suggest a different horse.
What is fair market price also will vary a bit based on location, with some markets being comparatively inflated because there are more buyers there and buyers with more money.
I think it is almost always fine to make an offer, and as stated above, most sellers do expect to negotiate a bit. Even those who are firm are not likely to be offended by a respectful reasonable offer, though they might decline it. I have never heard of a seller offering a “starting price,” but at least it gives you a ballpark of what they think the horse is worth, I suppose. There is rarely any harm in telling a seller that their horse is lovely and suggest that if they would entertain an offer of $X, you would love to buy it.
$30,000 for a foal is a lot to risk. So much can happen to it before you even throw a saddle on. By the time it is 3 then, if you’ve bought a weanling, you have a crap ton of money invested in it before you even get to ride it. And you don’t even know if you will LIKE to ride it. To follow, have not seen many nice 3 or 4 year olds for under $60,000. I know what it costs to breed, raise, keep and train these animals, as I’ve done it. But I am still not paying those prices for a gamble…
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I think you are “guessing” wrong. 
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30.000 for a foal seems a lot. I know many breeders which sell cheaper foals and some look very nice. Dont forget if you buy a foal you are mostly buying hope… You will only know in 3 years what you really got…
What are you looking for? I keep an eye on Warmbloods for Sale and a couple of the FB sales groups and don’t usually see foals over $15K, and very few 3 year olds over $30K. I would think that anyone shopping in the very high-end would be working with a professional who knows the market.
Right now, it seems like 2 year olds are going for the same/less than a weanling of similar breeding and quality, so that could be a good way to go. At that point they are not too far from being under saddle, and you can get a set of radiographs. Maybe you won’t find a top prospect available for sale at that age, but there are plenty of nice ones.
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Where are you seeing prices like that? I follow the sales market pretty closely, and the prices you’re quoting are out of line with what I see horses listed at. Unless you’re looking at the absolute best of the best foals, no one in this country is asking 30k for a foal. I’ve seen one listed at that price, and it won’t sell for that much. The vast majority of breeders I see offering foals are at 10-17k for top quality, frozen semen sired, foals.
Riding horse prices can be all over the place. I’ve certainly not seen a glut of 60k 3 or 4 year olds. What state are you in? california?
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Hey, I’m in California, and I don’t see prices like that!?!?! Most of the foals I’ve seen are in the $7k to $15k range - a few VERY nice, VERY well bred babies might hit $18k. And 3 year olds, lightly started, mostly $20k to $40k (and $40k is FANCY and rare). Once they hit 4 or 5 and have a solid show record with scores in the 70s, now you are looking at $40k on up for a fancy one, but at that point, they have a solid show record.
I don’t think even Florida is commanding $30k for a foal!
Honestly, there are a lot of NICE horses for sale, going under saddle, been to some shows, in the $25k to $35k range - that is a lot of money, but it really isn’t “overpriced”, when you think about what has gone into such a horse - breeding, raising, training, showing costs…
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