Dressage Horse shopping

[scruffy_the_cat]

@yaya

Your location of Connecticut is sort of the hotbed of Lyme, so that’s not surprising.

But, the test for Lyme disease only notes a previous exposure. It does not say that the horse is currently infected, nor does it predict whether the horse will show clinical signs. Sort of like EPM here in the south. A blood titer only shows exposure, does not say the horse is affected, nor does it predict clinical signs. You have to look further.

In both cases, a negative is good to have, but a positive blood titer does not mean doom.

And Lyme is not very prevalent in the south.

The Cornell multiplex absolutely shows whether there is an acute infection vs a chronic one, so it is a useful test.

If the horse is in the Northeast I’d absolutely do a Lyme test on a PPE but it wouldn’t affect my buying decision one way or another. I’d only be doing it to have baseline data. If the horse was acutely positive I’d just treat it if I liked everything else about it. If the horse was positive AND feeling great when you were trying it, I’d buy the horse on the spot since that horse would be a saint. LOL

[WildLittleWren]

@MysticOakRanch

Hey, I’m in California, and I don’t see prices like that!?!?! Most of the foals I’ve seen are in the $7k to $15k range - a few VERY nice, VERY well bred babies might hit $18k. And 3 year olds, lightly started, mostly $20k to $40k (and $40k is FANCY and rare). Once they hit 4 or 5 and have a solid show record with scores in the 70s, now you are looking at $40k on up for a fancy one, but at that point, they have a solid show record.

I don’t think even Florida is commanding $30k for a foal!

Honestly, there are a lot of NICE horses for sale, going under saddle, been to some shows, in the $25k to $35k range - that is a lot of money, but it really isn’t “overpriced”, when you think about what has gone into such a horse - breeding, raising, training, showing costs…

I am in Florida and even I haven’t seen prices like the OP is quoting!!

[netg]

I’ve seen $30K foals, but they were exceptionally high quality out of international or international quality mares by international stallions.

[alibi_18]

@netg

I’ve seen $30K foals, but they were exceptionally high quality out of international or international quality mares by international stallions.

30k for a foal seems a tad excessive to me too.

Maybe the OP is shopping with a trainer or an agent that inflates the prices? or maybe shopping in Europe?

[Edre]

This year I’ve seen maybe? two or three foals priced in excess of 30k. There’s maybe a few more that are 20-30, but the range I’ve been seeing is more commonly 9-18k for well bred, well marketed foals from recognized programs with desirable pedigrees.

I do think that there can be some inflation in the 2-5yo ages (I see a crazy price jump once something has been started under saddle, but prior to real show results - “FEI potential”/“Big ring potential” is the catchphrase for people who seem to do that.

As far as “starting price, make an offer”… It’s always hard to figure out what you can offer and not be insulting. What I was advised if the asking price is in excess of around 20k+, you can consider offering 2/3 of the asking price and go from there. If it’s less than that, 10-15% off the asking price as a starting offer might be more reasonable.

[soloudinhere]

I think it’s reasonable to see a large price jump once a horse is w-t-c under saddle, because at that point both buyer and seller have a reasonable idea of what the horse will be. No guarantees, but a lot more information than when they’re 2 and look like they’re made from spare parts.

[joiedevie99]

I’d expect to pay $15-20k for an exceptional foal in the US. Maybe $10-12k for very nice.

If you’re shopping in Europe, the high end will go quite a bit higher - especially in the high end auctions.

And yes, the Cornell Lyme test is quite useful - nothing like the old ones.

[sammy14]

A 25% discount on the asking price is quite normal ime. If they don’t take your offer there are a LOT of foals for sale. I usually have a criteria re breeding size temperament and then buy whatever is the best deal out of what’s on offer. I do find though that 2 yolds are easier to assess and it’s possible to vet them better and that’s what I normally buy.

[MysticOakRanch]

@soloudinhere

I think it’s reasonable to see a large price jump once a horse is w-t-c under saddle, because at that point both buyer and seller have a reasonable idea of what the horse will be. No guarantees, but a lot more information than when they’re 2 and look like they’re made from spare parts.

I’d also point out that many breeders sell 2 year olds at a loss because they WANT to move them before they have to invest in training, AND 2 year olds tend to be a hard sell - fugly, gangly, downhill, neck hasn’t grown into the head, etc. Then, once they invest 3 or 4 or 6 months of training (for most breeders, that means sending them to a pro), they have several thousand dollars in training, AND as you point out, a better idea of their character under saddle. And may now be paying a commission to the trainer - so they’ve added 6 months of board and training, $7500 to their costs. A potential commission off the top. So now they have another $10k or more on the price just to stay even…

Bargain shoppers should look at 2 year olds :lol:

[Cowgirl]

@MysticOakRanch

I’d also point out that many breeders sell 2 year olds at a loss because they WANT to move them before they have to invest in training, AND 2 year olds tend to be a hard sell - fugly, gangly, downhill, neck hasn’t grown into the head, etc. Then, once they invest 3 or 4 or 6 months of training (for most breeders, that means sending them to a pro), they have several thousand dollars in training, AND as you point out, a better idea of their character under saddle. And may now be paying a commission to the trainer - so they’ve added 6 months of board and training, $7500 to their costs. A potential commission off the top. So now they have another $10k or more on the price just to stay even…

Bargain shoppers should look at 2 year olds :lol:

Yes! I’ve been looking at some 2 year olds…some not so fugly too!

Anyone who is seeing high quality young horses, under saddle, in the $25k to $35k range is welcome to pm me with links!

[pluvinel]

@Cowgirl

Yes! I’ve been looking at some 2 year olds…some not so fugly too!

Anyone who is seeing high quality young horses, under saddle, in the $25k to $35k range is welcome to pm me with links!

I can tell you I sold a 7 yr old Lusitano with great bloodlines with all lateral work, W-T-C for $20k

[alibi_18]

Maybe not exactly what you are looking for, they do jumpers… but who would pass on a great canter?

Beaulieu Farm : http://www.fermebeaulieufarm.com/sport-horse-for-sale/

South Lane Farm : (their website is not up to date at all…) http://www.southlanefarm.com/

[Willy_Von_Whompers]

beware of the two year old that isn’t somewhat fugly. If WB two year olds don’t look a bit wonky you may be disappointed in the final product. You should see the movement and the angles but the pretty bits shouldn’t really be shouting out on a two year old.

You absolutely don’t want your two year old looking like a finished horse even if the picture is quite pretty now. No way Jose.

[beowulf]

@Willy Von Whompers

beware of the two year old that isn’t somewhat fugly. If WB two year olds don’t look a bit wonky you may be disappointed in the final product. You should see the movement and the angles but the pretty bits shouldn’t really be shouting out on a two year old.

You absolutely don’t want your two year old looking like a finished horse even if the picture is quite pretty now. No way Jose.

Hmm… I have to say I think with some lines, this isn’t the case anymore. I’d be curious to hear other more experienced (than me) owners/breeders chime in.

[MysticOakRanch]

@Willy Von Whompers

beware of the two year old that isn’t somewhat fugly. If WB two year olds don’t look a bit wonky you may be disappointed in the final product. You should see the movement and the angles but the pretty bits shouldn’t really be shouting out on a two year old.

You absolutely don’t want your two year old looking like a finished horse even if the picture is quite pretty now. No way Jose.

My experience is that the pretty, nicely balanced 2 year old ends up being a small adult - pretty and balanced usually means their growth is slowing down, and if they are pretty and balanced and “full bodied”, they may end up being a heavier type as an adult, but that is about it. I wouldn’t automatically steer clear of a pretty 2 year old, but then I don’t like super tall horses. But if the horse looked finished and full bodied, full neck, etc - I would expect the adult horse to be a heavier type - not that that is a bad thing for some of us.

[joiedevie99]

@Cowgirl

Yes! I’ve been looking at some 2 year olds…some not so fugly too!

Anyone who is seeing high quality young horses, under saddle, in the $25k to $35k range is welcome to pm me with links!

Check out Rolling Stone Farm and Wally Woo Farm.

[Willy_Von_Whompers]

Agreed your mileage may vary with some of the different lines of WBs. I am mainly familiar with Hanovarian and a bit of the Dutch horses.

I’ve had a couple of friends “caught out” by buying the horse of their dreams as a two year old, only to have them morph into a much coarser and larger version as they finally matured - and longer in the back and body, which personally surprised me. I didn’t know they would stretch that way. LOL. I much prefer a shorter back personally and would have been horrified.

Again if people know specific bloodlines then they may know better what to expect. Esp if you can see the parents on site I guess. I did have a friend also buy the perfectly little two year old filly - looked leggy but elegant (parents both 16.3ish…), expecting/hoping for more height, and she topped out at just under 16 hands, again, a good or bad thing depending on your POV.

People speak fo a horse reverting to “foal form” which is a good thing if he were a beautifully put together foal. The growth stages are tricky to predict.

[soloudinhere]

@Cowgirl

Yes! I’ve been looking at some 2 year olds…some not so fugly too!

Anyone who is seeing high quality young horses, under saddle, in the $25k to $35k range is welcome to pm me with links!

Miramonte Equine was advertising a Wild Dance 4yo for $25k, going under saddle.

I do ponies, but both my 3yos are less than that as well.

[beowulf]

@MysticOakRanch

My experience is that the pretty, nicely balanced 2 year old ends up being a small adult - pretty and balanced usually means their growth is slowing down, and if they are pretty and balanced and “full bodied”, they may end up being a heavier type as an adult, but that is about it. I wouldn’t automatically steer clear of a pretty 2 year old, but then I don’t like super tall horses. But if the horse looked finished and full bodied, full neck, etc - I would expect the adult horse to be a heavier type - not that that is a bad thing for some of us.

Whoo! I would not mind that being the case with my current filly… she’s two and has not gone through the “ugly lumpy dumpy” phase I have seen our other foals go through… I hope your experience (them being smaller) is true… I would not mind her topping out at 16hh max… but her dam is 17.2 and her sire is 17.3… :eek:

I’m familiar with the other foals this dam has thrown, and they all grew like her - very proportionately, with one being an absolute giant.

I will say, I see “perfectly conformed yearling” more commonly in WBs than in TBs. TBs tend to really go through a scruffy phase, depending on the bloodlines… but then they seem to grow into themselves quite well.

[Willy_Von_Whompers]

So basically it’s a crap shoot! LOL Like anything else in the horse biz.

Interesting about TBs, I’ve only seen very little newborns (look like baby deer - when you are used to the joints of a WB baby) and two year olds, where they look like regular horses really give or take some muscle.