Something I’ve come across over the past few years showing at a local level, specifically after an old trainer said to me (before parting ways) “I only go where I know the judge” or “…a bottle of wine never hurts;-)”, sparks the question on how neutral are these judges really? Are you getting judged fairly based on what you put out in your test? Is is the “type” of horse your riding? Or does it really come down to who you’re associated with? Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences? I know I’m beginning to think certain things are more than coincidence, and if so where does one go from there? How do you stand up for yourself and your horse without acting like the rest of these clicky obnoxious above it all bit…ladies. 
I have skipped shows due to who the judge was.
But that’s because I didn’t like the way they judged (four comments on a training test?) and not because of favouritism potential.
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When scribing, I have not noticed an obvious bias even when the judge recognizes the horse and/or rider.
I can actually see it work both ways: a judge may be more lenient to someone they know, but they also might know the horse can go better and judge more harshly. I think true objectivity must be hard once you get familiar with the different riders and horses.
I am considering going to a show next month, where the judge is someone I took some lessons with last year and this past winter. I don’t doubt HER objectivity, but I do feel I might change how I ride to appease what I remember her preferences are…which would be a mistake. That is my problem, not hers though. I do prefer to ride with judges I am less familiar with though.
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I don’t know if this hold true for the upper levels where the pool of horses, riders and judges may be small enough that they know each other well but at least where I live, I haven’t seen it be an issue while scribing, which I do as often as I can. If anything I agree with the poster above, that a judge who knows a horse or horse/rider combination well may subconsciously be harder on them if they aren’t performing as well as that judge has previously seen. Overall I think judges are well trained and very good at judging what they see in front of them on that day.
Avoiding judges with known breed / colour bias, harsh or discouraging comments, or too few comments are more common reasons to pick a show based on the judge.
As far as riding differently to suit a particular judge’s style? Absolutely I will do that in the ring.
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It is very hard to be totally unbiased as a judge no matter how hard one tries.
It seems to me that showing is as much for experience and to see how your horse goes, as well as to see how it compares with other horses of the same level. The rider knows how the test felt, so the score is just icing, especially at the lower levels. These are the shows where the judges are learning their job, too.
Higher up, with championships, team selection, it is more important to have good judging and that is up to the federations - and management to ask the judge back, or not.
It is poor sportsmanship to complain about a judge, even when you know the judge has made a bad call…and is a tough pill to swallow. I learned that the hard way. There are appropriate channels if you have valid complaints.
In the end, the scoring works for a rider sometimes, or against the rider other times…so it comes out in the wash - as I see it.
I do like a judge that will have the courage to do more than mark 6 and 6.5 and 7’s. It is also important to hear a complimentary comment and constructive, not unkind, comments on how to improve the overall ride. Makes the ride
worth the effort and cost.
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I’d be surprised if your instructor would agree with you. Changing your riding in an attempt to impress whatever judge happens to be scoring your ride that particular day?
Most teachers would advise against it, as a bad idea, for your horse or for you.
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In general, I think judges are much more ethical then politicians, yet make decisions that are less devastating or life changing. I doubt most judges can be bought for a bottle of wine
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Thank you for the replies, it’s true that I have started to think about riding to certain judges preferences, and avoiding others all together. The frustration comes when you know your ride was pretty good, know where your errors where, but you get your score sheet back and it’s waaay below what you expected, and none of the errors you know where obviously made (or few) are on there. Just basically the same phrase over and over with odd comments that seem quite mean and a bit personal. I may just be being overly sensitive, but I’m not the only one noticing it. And in the same day I’ll do 2 or 3 tests and there will be major differences in scores and comments mostly with different judges. I didnt ride tremendously differently, my horse didnt go that differently I’m sure lol…if anything at my last show I was so heated about one test and the nonsensical commentary and score I basically just went into the next one and rode like I didn’t give a crap (because at that moment I was seething) and low and behold a normal score and much more constructive comments. It was a different judge. Things that just make you sit there and scratch your head. Anyway thanks! What about thoughts on eventing judges, judging straight Dressage? And for the record is like to think all these judges are fair. Thats why we show right? To get feedback on how we are doing in the training!
I do believe in the “halo” effect (human nature) but as someone said, some judges go the other way to try and show they are not favoring anyone. One should pay more attention to the comments than the scores.
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Bias exists as an inherent part of human nature. I wish it didn’t but it is a fact of life as part of dressage as any other part of life. It can be nothing short of infuriating at times, but for the few (read extremely seldom) times where I have been on the other side, I’ll take what I can get
I absolutely change the way I ride a test contingent upon the judge. For instance a few years ago there were a lot of eventing judges at our horse shows, and you better believe I rode those tests more forward than I normally would have. Also if you keep an eye on the scores and know the horse/rider combinations, it becomes pretty obvious what a specific judge’s preferences are. This may be the case overall, or over a weekend.
There are some local schooling shows that I don’t attend if certain L Program Grads are judging. I know I won’t get a fair shake so I don’t bother wasting my money. They hold a grudge if you don’t “toe the line” with the local GMO. I chose not to rejoin the local GMO due to the mega-infighting and overall nastiness. I joined one much farther away with nice folks who didn’t play games with the membership.
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I think it’s work noting that if you ride with different judges it is very very easy to get a wildly different score. Let’s say you have the same ride in front of both of the judges. Judge A gives you a 6 on all movements while Judge B gives you a 6.5 on all movements. This is a tiny difference on each individual movement but in the end it’s a 5% difference in the average. And sure it’s easy to tell the difference between a 4 and an 8 when you get down to actual scores it’s very subjective on the difference with those half points. Some will boost them up a little and others down a little.
I definitely take into account a judge’s preferences. If I had a judge who thought my extended walk had too low of a head carriage I will keep it a hair higher the next time. If I get a judge who is very particular about accuracy I will think more about accuracy while I ride. None of this really changes the training of the horse, but learning what that judge focuses on can help you focus while you ride. You can’t think of everything to fix for every moment of the test just like a judge can’t look at every single detail of your ride at all times, there usually needs to be a focus.
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The other question would be are the scores progressively lower as the test difficulty increases? First 1 is easier than First 3. If you do three tests in a day and First 3 was the last one, I would expect it to be lower regardless of judge.
Need more information. Was first 1 ridden, then first 2, then first 3? Remember first 3 is on the cusp of second level, so its difficulty is greater - single loop in canter is a big change from first 1.
Or are you talking training level? Training 1 is basic 20 meter circles with the canter departs on the circle - significantly easier than training 3 with the bending line trot into canter, stretch circles added, plus a long canter to a diagonal (if I remember that correctly)
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I have never had to edit my riding to suit a judge, nor have I seen this “kissing up” to earn a higher score.This is bribery and wrong.
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I am not sure how much I would change my riding to “suit” a particular judge, but if there was a consistent critique of one of my previous rides, I will certainly be more cognizant of that critique on my next ride in front of that judge, or anywhere - isn’t that what the feedback is for?
As an example, if I got lots of “needs more energy” I would definitely be thinking about how to add that energy without losing rhythm, balance…
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I have never seen judges have favoritism, and have scribed at a LOT of rated shows, for judges of varying levels of popularity. Typically the judges who score easiest are most popular, but we’ve had some tougher scoring judges who people loved for their feedback which was detailed and accurate. More often, when one rider consistently does well, that person is doing things right. There is one local barn which is especially notable to me, in that riders have varying skill level but the one unifying factor is they simply don’t make mistakes. Transitions are at the right point and well ridden, circles are round and the correct size, halts are straight and prompt without pulling. Clearly, they pay attention to the little things which can cost you up to 10% on a test, and in effect they each give themselves bonus points just for riding their tests correctly. Their horses aren’t always the fanciest, aren’t always the most correct, aren’t always the flashiest - but they almost always win, for making sure they give away zero points. If you watched the World Cup, it was the same way I felt about Carl Hester on Nip Tuck. The horse was clearly one of the lesser talented horses, but he got every single point he could have out of that horse that day.
Certainly judges have different perspectives, and I notice each judge seems to have a theme which is a pet peeve for him or her. For example, one judge was very big on wanting to see hind legs ridden up and under the horse, and horse ridden out to contact. Most of the classes she judged were lower level amateur riders. So of course there were many comments about that, and the pros or riders who had already been up the levels with other horses did better. It’s HARD, and so her judging reflected that the folks who were similar to my own skill level not being able to ride the horse up to the contact from behind as well as she would like to see. Her scores were appropriate for the requirements of the level, but comments may have seemed harsh if someone didn’t understand the concept yet (or fair to those who did, and are struggling to achieve what they know they’re aiming for, like I feel when I see those type of comments.)
With a young horse who has gone through many butt high growth stages, I have had some judges who wanted to see her traveling with head down and tucked at training - and if I had ridden her that way, she would have tripped and fallen on her face because her build already had her so far on the forehand. She’s also quite high energy, and super adjustable - so not super steady naturally. I had some judges who saw her for where she was at that point in training and physical development and rewarded me with quite high rider scores. I had others who saw a rider who can be more described as “round” than “lean” and assumed I was creating nervous energy and working my horse up and hit me HARD in the rider scores - despite the fact my horse settles during each test and we always get higher scores on movements at the end of a ride than start. It has been the judges with more years of experience and training for the most part who score me higher, and I accept that the fewer years of training a judge has, the more likely that judge will think I’m an out of balance fat girl who is hampering her horse (essentially what one judge did say, scoring me insanely low on a test the crowd thought I had won, including trainer of the horse/rider who did win), and if a judge is that harsh and seemingly out of touch I will try not to ride in front of that judge again - the one who ripped me apart, I scratched rather than ride in front of and get more tests which seemed about 10% out of whack.
On the flip side, I have clearly had judges who really liked my horse and riding style, and may have been extra generous to me because of that. I’m no great rider, but my tendency is to do too little more than too much, and some judges especially appreciate that on a horse they can tell is hot. Other times, a judge will just like your horse. They’re humans, judging to the best of their ability. Sometimes I disagree enough to avoid them in the future, sometimes I don’t. There has only been one person where I didn’t feel that was the case, and I have since learned that judge is famous for not paying attention during rides and just being flat out nasty. My GMO won’t have that judge back because of it, and I wouldn’t ride under that judge if they did.
If your horse is adjustable, it’s easy.
My mare has a large range of how much energy/jump she can put into her gaits. We can go super relaxed, long stride, slower tempo, or we can go higher energy and more impulsion and air time, but not quite as relaxed. If we had both at the same time perfectly, we wouldn’t adjust - but I certainly will ask for higher energy with a judge who wants that vs more relaxed with a judge who wants that, at least on a day where she is feeling her normal self. Her needs always come first, and on tense days we absolutely go with a longer neck, slower tempo, greater swing to keep her mentally in the right place.
In dressage tests, I ride my horse to the best of my ability and understanding of the training scale. Accuracy in tests is rewarded for a reason-it is part of the test. I have not seen judges playing favorites on riders they know i.e. other judges or well known riders. However, I am sure there is some “halo” effect when a big name rider comes in with the judge having an expectation of a good ride.
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This exactly is what I was talking about my changing my riding to suit a particular judge. I always try to see the score sheet and comments from the first test before riding my second test. If they suggest my horse needs to be more forward or I need to show more bend on the circles, you can bet I’m going to try to do that in the next test, and my trainer agrees with that.
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I will also adjust my riding a bit for different judges. And I know plenty of big names who do the same. I’m not going to sacrifice my horses training, but I can ride a bit more forward, or a bit less, a bit higher or lower in the neck, a bit ‘longer and looser’ or a bit more compact. And certain judges have their specific peeves and points of focus. Sure I will adjust my 2nd ride, and so will most ring savvy competitors.
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