Dressage - Michael Barisone

Not responding on the substance of THIS case, which I haven’t really been following, but some thoughts on the broader legal issues raised on this thread.

I don’t know how NJ state courts have been but federal courts have been a mess. We had this brief period in the fall where we were able to seat juries and we got a couple trials in, and then it basically shut down again. It’s so hard to have all the moving pieces of a complex trial ready to go, not knowing if enough jurors will be available. So what ended up happening was that a couple smaller/simpler trials got accomplished but more complex ones didn’t. And now we’re in a holding pattern again. It’s really hard. I am sure the pandemic has had some impact on the timing of this trial.

The right is fact-specific, what is sufficiently fast depends on the circumstances. Part of the right is the right to a jury trial, and if you literally cannot empanel a jury because of a pandemic then that’s a fact that is considered when deciding whether there was sufficient delay that the Sixth Amendment was violated. The defendant could press for it and try to move for an earlier trial date, but that usually being agreeing to a “Zoom trial” or a bench trial and so far that’s not something my office’s defendants have been eager to do. Some passage of time can be a benefit to a defendant, especially a non-detained defendant. But even a detained defendant may benefit from additional time to build the case or seek a plea deal. I completely agree that this is a really non-ideal situation. I don’t agree that the right is a “joke” more broadly. And given a pandemic outside the court’s control, I don’t know what anyone wants the court to do differently here.

I agree with @soloudinhere that it really hasn’t been an unusually long period of time. I think Law and Order and shows of that type have conditioned people to think a case goes from investigation to jury verdict in the space of a commercial break but that’s pretty unrealistic.

Criminal discovery is primarily a one way street (not entirely but largely) with the prosecution having the duty to disclose a lot of material and the defense having more of an optional role in collecting its own discovery. From the article posted (which has limited detail) it sounds like the prosecution had a lot of information, including loads of social media posts, and turned that over to the defense. The defense was needing to take a lot of time to wade through it. I didn’t see mention of the defense gathering its own evidende, though it could. Whether it could be disclosed depends a lot on whether any orders have been entered in the criminal case governing the disclosure of discovery as well as rules of professional conduct that condition what an attorney can say about a pending case s/he is litigating. After the case there’s a lot more leeway in what can be said (if the parties want to speak about the case). While a case is pending there are rules that try to prevent the defendant from being “tried in the press” that don’t necessarily apply after the case is 100% concluded.

[quote=“MorganSercu, post:33, topic:471737”]
And, of course, just because a plea deal is offered doesn’t mean the defendant has to accept it if a jury or bench trial is desired. Is that correct? Not saying it makes the most sense for any defendant. But clients don’t always take the advice of their attorneys for a variety of reasons.
[/quote].

No defendant has to take a plea if entitled to a trial (a jury trial in the criminal case).

So this is a lot more complex than a judge being “confused about the law.” Jury instructions don’t just drop out of the sky. The parties in a case propose them to the judge and then the judge has to decide what instructions will be given to the jury. The instructions have to be based on the law, of course, but also each side wants to draft the language in a way that is better for his/her client/side of the case. The judge then has to wade though and make a decision as to what language actually gets read. There are “pattern” jury instructions but they don’t necessarily cover all fact situations in every case and they still often need to be tailored. Along the way, that’s where error can creep in-- where one side asks for a particularly slanted or not-quite-right spin on the law and convinces the judge to use that instruction. Or there can be novel issues of law where the trial judge is having to decide what state law is without the benefit of a decision from the binding superior court. So it’s not that the judge is “confused.”

Moreover that error I described above isn’t the only kind of error. There are all kinds of errors. For example, if the defendant was arguing self defense and the judge didn’t give an instruction on that issue (oversight or didn’t believe that the defense met the elements for the defense sufficient for the jury to consider it) and later on appeal the appellate court said the instruction should have been given-- that is error too. In the case you cite it looks like the judge just omitted PART of a pattern instruction…


So it’s not that the law is so confusing that even judges don’t know what the law is-- the issue is that the judge is the gatekeeper at trial and is a human being who sometimes makes mistakes in fulfilling that gatekeeper role. Which is what, in part, the appeals process is there to catch and fix.

This is very situation dependent. The victims in my case have no “say” in what pleas are offered, though as a courtesy I do keep them in the loop. The victim isn’t a party in a criminal case. S/he may be a witness and s/he is important-- but at the end of the day the case is US v. Defendent or NJ v. Defendant and not Victim v. Defendant. In a civil case, the “victim” is the plaintiff so is the party bringing suit and has to agree to any settlement.

I do think the prosecutor in your case did the right thing by feeling you out about a plea. But at the end of the day you didn’t have veto power. If the prosecutor felt a plea was a just outcome it should have been offered and accepted even if it displeased you. Which is not to say any prosecutor wants to create a situation where the victim is unhappy about a plea, but it happens. Often the victim is happy not to go to trial.

I’m going to do a separate thread about the civil case both because this is already long and also to keep the issues separate.

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Unfortunately, L&O ended in 2010. Otherwise, I’m sure we would eventually have seen it. But don’t despair – there’s always Court TV.

And now I am doing 2000 recaptchas to try to get to the docket in the civil case, LOL

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well, there’s several variant spinoffs, it doesn’t have to be specifically Law and Order. But thanks.

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In the civil case, Kanarek filed a complaint for personal injury against Barisone and various others. After some initial motion practice (mostly having to do with making sure Barisone’s assets weren’t dissipated), answers and crossclaims/counterclaims were fired. This includes a counterclaim by Barisone against Kanarek saying she was stalking and harassing him. There were some changes of attorneys by various parties.

Sweetgrass Farms, one of the many defendants, served discovery on Kanarek. According Sweetgrass Farms’s motion to compel, she didn’t timely respond. So Sweetgrass Farms filed the motion which the court granted on 2/9/21. She was ordered to respond within 10 days. A new lawyer substituted for her a few days after the motion was granted, You can’t tell from the docket whether she did/didn’t serve any additional discovery because civil discovery is self executing and the only time anything about it hits the docket is if someone won’t comply and the party asking for the dicovery seeks court intervention OR if documents/statements produced in discovery get attached to a motion.

From what is on the civil docket I don’t think you can tell whether Barisone has discovery he’s collected through a private investigator or other means. There’s been some suggestion of that on this thread and it might be true but I don’t see anything on the civil docket that would suggest it.

This looks like a pretty typical docket in a tort case to me.

We are a long way off from anyone “winning” anything dispositive.

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One small additional detail. When a defendant pleads he must stand up in open court and admit to every element of the charge/charges he is pleading to. In that proceding some “evidence” may be made public. But less than in a full trial, certainly. “Evidence” (I use the quotes because this is not evidence in the same sense of saying something is admitted at trial) may also be made public during sentencing. The parties can put witnesses on as part of that proceeding and offer other material for the judge to decide in fashioning a sentence.

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Sure, any time.

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The only Law & Order still running is SVU. The idea of them taking this already nutty case and adding a sexual element for TV is…unappealing to say the least.

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I was mixing up the cases. There is also a civil case and Barisone’s attorney is seeking information from the plaintiff. Is that information is Barisone’s afterward? The criminal trial is where a plea deal may come into play.

Thank you for all the information.

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It looks like Sweetgrass Farms is the one seeking discovery, I gather that’s a business entity affiliated with Barisone.

Generally the information you get in civil discovery is yours to use as you need in that case. There may be protective orders limiting its use. I don’t see one on that docket but one could be sought later. The information may or may not be yours to use outside the context of the case. I am not an expert on the NJ state rules of civil procedure. Absent a protective order civil discovery is not sealed/secret/confidential but there are other limitations (including professional rules that limit what an attorney can say about a pending case s/he is handling).

In a criminal case the prosecution can offer a plea. If the defendant accepts it there will be no trial on the charges covered by that plea deal. The fact that there is a plea and the hearing where the plea is entered are usually public (or publicly available if not open to the public at the exact time they’re happening).

In a civil case either side can offer a settlement. If all involved parties accept it, there will be no trial on those claims covered by the settlement agreement. The contents of the agreement may or may not be public.

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@vxf111 thank you for the very informative posts.

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Thank you so much for all the info vxf111.

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Thank you for your clarifications. What is your take on the judge’s comments during the televised detention hearing. It appeared to me that he was not only stating that the defendant did the crime but his intent was to murder. There was no. “Alleged” in his wording. Is this an example of judicial bias? It seems that more neutral wording wording would be in order.
As it was televised and could be seen by people in the community catching a local news story who might not otherwise have any knowledge of the case seemed odd to me as they could be potential jurors if a trial happened.

Again thank you for your informative post.

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I’m sure some armchair lawyers will come along with better info :roll_eyes:

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My understanding was that Sweetgrass Farms was an LLC that owned the farm which was sold, and that the owners or partners in the LLC included Barisone but also included the original owners of the farm before they titled the farm in the name of the LLC. At the time that Kanarek filed the civil suit, the farm was still owned by the LLC.

When Kanarek filed the civil suit, she added as defendants Sweetgrass Farms, Ruth Cox and lots of people and entities, which I understand is standard. Sweetgrass Farms counter sued and perhaps cross sued Barisone.

Two questions:

  1. If the farm was the only significant asset of Sweetgrass Farms and it was subsequently sold, how does that affect Kanarek’s civil suit against the LLC? There was legal action concerning Barisone being able to sell his personal assets. When the farm was sold, would Sweetgrass Farms have been required to keep the proceeds in the LLC so the assets (in different form) were still available? Does the sale of the farm mean that the suit against Sweetgrass Farm is moot?
  2. The discovery demand was by Sweetgrass Farms for Kanarek to provide all of her posts on COTH for the last 6 years. What would be the point of that? I don’t understand the information value of isolated posts out of the context of the overall thread, and, further, it would seem that the Sweetgrass lawyers could access the threads just as easily as Kanarek could. If the posts really are crucial, wouldn’t Sweetgrass research the posts to make sure that they really obtained all of them? Would one side of the dispute want to rely on the information handed over by the adversary when they can easily research it themselves?

I was wondering if Sweetgrass Farms was putting in nuisance discovery requests to prod Kanarek into saying, well, you’re not my primary target, anyway, so let’s just drop you from the suit. Given that civil suits usually start out naming everyone in sight, is there usually a point when some of the peripheral defendants get pruned out?

In the Barisone case? Honestly, I have not been following this case at all and I didn’t watch any televised comments. Is there a link somewhere?

Different rules of conduct apply to judges/lawyers and the rules make distinctions about “extrajudicial comments” (comments outside the context of participating in a hearing/trial) and comments made in the context of participating in a hearing.

I don’t know what the comments were so I really can’t comment on them.

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I have no idea who Sweetgrass Farms is. My assumption was that it was connected to Barisone but I didn’t read the complaint and I’m not really following this case. I chimed in to make general comments about broader legal issues discussed on this thread. I have some general awareness that Barisone is accused of attempted homicide after shooting a client/farm resident and that there are allegations she was harassing him/refusing to leave but that’s about where my sidelines knowledge of the criminal case ends. I looked at the docket to summarize where things stand in the civil case, in terms of posture, but I didn’t read all the entries to try to understand the nuances of the claims.

  1. This is a question of NJ corporate law that I’m not really able to answer because, as noted, I don’t really know all the details about who owned what. In a shortcut way, I will say that short of formal bankruptcy a litigant cannot generally dissipate assets to avoid paying a civil judgment-- but it’s also hard to get blood from a stone meaning that if you sue someone and win but they have no money (or limited money) that judgment might not be worth much. Generally assets that were improperly dissipated can be traced and forfeited-- if you can find them. So instead of the farm being an asset used to pay a judgment, the money from selling the farm becomes the asset. The fact that someone is judgment proof (has no money) doesn’t moot a civil action. It just means that if you win you might not be able to collect all the money you’re awarded. I really can’t answer this question on more than general terms because it’s so fact/law specific and I don’t know the facts.

  2. I can only speculate what the point is. Not my case. Not my strategy.

But the first thing to realize is that civil discovery is broad, it includes not only things that go directly to a legal argument but even things that might lead to other useful information (poroportionality being considered). And you’re allowed to get the same discovery from different sources. It is completely normal to ask for the same information from different sources-- but before going to a third party generally it is easier and preferred to get the information from a litigant. A third party is allowed to object on the basis of burden in a way that a party to the suit cannot (or cannot as effectively). So COTH can push back on producing the posts more than Kanarek can. She is the plaintiff. She filed this suit. So she generally has a big discovery obligation. COTH didn’t bring this about and wouldn’t benefit from the case so they have arguments that they shouldn’t have to spend time/money producing the posts if Kanarek, a party, can also produce them.

Sweetgrass Farms could (and maybe will and maybe has) send a third party subpoena to COTH asking for posts but they also can (either at the same time or first) ask for those posts from Kanarek. It might make sense to do both to see whether Kanarek produces something that is materially different than what COTH produces. If she does not control/possess the information (i.e. posts are long deleted) then she’s under no obligation to produce them. But it might be interesting to see if she printed/retained drafts of posts etc. that might be different from what COTH now has (or what is saved in the Wayback machine or similar). Maybe she saved earlier drafts that other sources don’t have. Who knows? That’s why you ask. And you’re allowed to ask broadly. That’s normal.

With things like social media posts you would always like both an “official” copy (like from COTH) and copies from the parties so you can compare for differences. If a party tried to change/delete some of them that could give rise to a claim for spoliation which is like the civil version of destruction of evidence.

As to what subtantively could be in those posts that would help Sweetgrass Farms make an argument in the case? I don’t know. I did not follow any of the drama here on COTH (I have a general awareness that there was some but not what specifically was discussed). Presumably Sweetgrass Farms either thinks Kanarek made incriminating statements in these posts (if a litigant said “the sky is blue” in her complaint and said “the sky is not blue” in a social media post then the post can be used to impeach her and demonstrate that she lies). Perhaps Sweetgrass Farms, if they are not a related entity to Barisone, wants to use the posts to show that Kanarek blamed Barisone alone for what happened and not Sweetgrass Farms, and so by her own admissions the shooting was not Sweetgrass Farms’s doing. Perhaps there are elements of the chronology on which Sweetgrass Farms is unclear and they think Kanarek’s posts can fill in those details. Maybe one of the posts mentioned an eyewitness that Sweetgrass Farms is not currently aware of who Sweetgrass Farms would want to talk to. I have no idea what is in those posts but you can imagine that they might be useful or lead to other useful information.

These don’t particularly seem like “nuisance” requests. On my very light skim they seem like typical discovery. If they prod Kanarek to drop Sweetgrass Farms from the case I am sure that would make Sweetgrass Farms happy-- but these look like normal discovery which is the first step in a civil case. The parties ask each other for basic information and exchange it so that they can build their cases. Maybe Sweetgrass Farms is building an argument that it didn’t have involvement and so should be dismissed. Maybe Sweetgrass Farms is building an argument that Kanarek’s tort claim is substantively defective in some way. Maybe Sweetgrass Farms is building an argument to support its own claims in the case. Maybe all 3. All a normal part of civil discovery.

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I can’t get the link to upload. I need a 10 year old who could get it to load in 10 seconds. Is another poster able to load it? It is the one with his first attorney and I believe it was the detention hearing. Perhaps the judge’s comments are not out of line, but it did seem odd to me that he did not use more neutral wording, innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Im not in NJ and do not know anyone connected to the case so I don’t have a “side”. This happened shortly after the GM ban which my H/J friends and I were discussing as he was a huge presence in our training. I branched out into dressage to the dismay of my friends who treated it as a severe illness or something. My recent jury duty during Covid and being stuck at home has rekindled my interest.

Again, thanks for you lending your expertise.

ps My favorite masks as a juror (for the prosecution, defense, judge and witnesses to wear) was the pointed face mask (easy to hear) and the face shield with no band across the head piece. :grin:

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I’m curious to see the video now, but I haven’t seen it so hard to say much about it.

Man, face coverings are such an issue. The face shields are nice but, alone, not that safe (the virus can easily get in past them). The masks are a problem (as you note, they muffle sound and facial expression) but are safer. Just now my “night job” started requiring double masking! Everything is just MORE DIFFICULT right now.

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In the state of New Jersey, a defendant for whom an indictment has been returned for murder or any other crime that could reasonably lead to detainment in prison for life must rebut the assumption that they will be detained prior to trial. The normal rules of evidence and discovery don’t apply to a pretrial detention hearing.

I’m not familiar with the proceeding that you’re discussing nor am I an attorney in the state of New Jersey, so I am not sure what you’re asking. However, broadly, the assumption is that if a defendant has successfully been indicted for murder or a charge of similar severity, enough evidence exists to convict them of that crime, and that would be the status that the judge would be operating under at a pretrial detention hearing.

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