Driving Breed Choices-Long

[Thomas_1]

I was already married to her! Nearly caused a divorce that day though It was VERY slippy.

Its a Welsh Section D and to a 2 wheeler of my own build. Probably about one of the first metal vehicles I made and competed with.

I’m afraid I can’t agree that its a puzzle for the horse. Puzzle for the driver maybe and a challenge of speed agility and bravery for the horse but personally speaking I don’t want a horse doing too much figuring out for himself. I want them to trust that I’ll not ask them to do anything wreckless or to their detriment and to give it an honest go.

[yellowpony]

late comer

Hello,
Obviously I am late coming to this conversation, but having spent the summer at several international driving shows I felt qualified to comment on the breeds seen…

At both Riesenbeck and Beekbergen, which are top shows for teams and pairs of horses we saw mostly Warmbloods and Lippizans. Dutch Harness Horses are very popular - top drivers such as Boyd Exell, Mieke van Tergouw, Fritz Grupe, Keady Cadwell, and Chester Weber are all driving them… Dobrovitz even has one in the lead of his team as well. I believe Chardon and Koos de Ronde have regular riding type KWPN … not sure. Lippizans are very popular - the Lazar brothers are reigning world pair champions… Benjamin Aillaud and Hank van der Wiel also have Lippizans… Of course there are exceptions, one of the fastest pairs in Europe is a pair of paints (not sure of their breeding).

As far as ponies go … Welsh won gold in every individual category at this years pony worlds… Top German driver Tobias Bucker drives a team of Welsh as well. German Riding Ponies are also very popular… I think in the ponies it is a little bit easier to have a “different” breed just because the worlds are so new, not as many people are as serious about it.

Obviously, single is the hardest job in the driving sport, and it does take a special individual to do well, and move great, and stand up to the wear and tear. So I think more breeds exist here as well.

I would have to disagree on the comment that marathons are easier. I think they are much less of a race to survive and more technical test the skill of the driver. Less big gallops and more turns, more test of the driver.

The courses in the USA vary depending on the venue. I think you would find shows such as Sunshine State, Live Oak and the Laurels , just to name a few are very much on par with some of the international shows. Other shows have much less support and thus a harder time building courses like those in Europe…sometimes getting enough entries is a problem.

Just my opinion!

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=yellowpony;2882481]
Of course there are exceptions, one of the fastest pairs in Europe is a pair of paints (not sure of their breeding). [/QUOTE] Do you mean coloured cobs.

I would have to disagree on the comment that marathons are easier. I think they are much less of a race to survive and more technical test the skill of the driver. Less big gallops and more turns, more test of the driver.
That’s absolutely not my experience at all. Albeit in Europe. Neither as I said earlier is it the experience or opinion of friends that have competed for the duration and level required to make such opinion.

I think the main difference now is the fact that they’re actually much less of a test and that’s why so many “oldies” are able to continue to compete despite decline in reaction and response and agility etc etc.

I’d be most interested to know how long you’ve competed and where and what level etc and hence how comes we’ve such different experience. Though perhaps that would be taking this thread off track :yes:

[yellowpony]

No, I don’t mean colored cobs. I have it on good authority they are in fact Dutch Warmbloods.

I compete FEI level, and have competed internationally, won a team medal. As well as having really fabulous opportunities to work and listen to some of the top drivers in our sport.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion - but if it is so much easier now - why other than Bowman are none of those drivers at the top of the sport? I don’t even know who some of them are? And what about all the people who have been working so hard to build courses and help our sport evolve? Are you saying the FEI course designers don’t know what they are doing?

I would also say the English are a bit behind Europe as well - after all they are the only country to still run 5 section marathons.

I guess I don’t understand why you feel the need to be so rude when someone has a differing opinion - we are all entitled to them.

This is why I don’t post on these groups… guess I shouldn’t have tried to share infos.

[Renae]

@yellowpony;2884495

No, I don’t mean colored cobs. I have it on good authority they are in fact Dutch Warmbloods.

That would be logical, the Samber line pinto Dutch Warmbloods are very popular with some people.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=yellowpony;2884495]
I guess I don’t understand why you feel the need to be so rude when someone has a differing opinion - we are all entitled to them. [/QUOTE] I guess I don’t understand why you think asking questions is being rude to someone who has a different opinion

This is why I don’t post on these groups… guess I shouldn’t have tried to share infos.
Neither do I understand why you’re getting in a huff. I don’t think you really “shared” anything significantly different to what I “shared”.

No, I don’t mean colored cobs. I have it on good authority they are in fact Dutch Warmbloods.
Ah so you remember which breed now. So do you mean Harrie Verstappen’s coloured warmbloods?

I don’t even know who some of them are?
Your point being?

And what about all the people who have been working so hard to build courses and help our sport evolveAre you saying the FEI course designers don’t know what they are doing??
No. I never said that and never implied that.

I would also say the English are a bit behind Europe as well - after all they are the only country to still run 5 section marathons.
Interesting opinion. Why do you think retaining B and C phases at National Level makes it “behind”?

[yellowpony]

I’m not the first person to think that you are rude. Perhaps you should reread your posts before you post.

I know the breed now because I asked a friend to make sure. I didn’t want to post misinformation for people who are actually wanting to know.

When you run B and C sections your ponies are more tired, hence slower hazards. Then the drivers go to an international show and they are not competitive.

That is all.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=yellowpony;2884626]
I’m not the first person to think that you are rude. Perhaps you should reread your posts before you post. [/QUOTE] I’m sure you’re not and I’m sure I’m not the first person to think you’ve got a bug up your backside.

I know the breed now because I asked a friend to make sure. I didn’t want to post misinformation for people who are actually wanting to know.
And again if you’re trying to make a point then its totally lost on me and likewise I don’t know why you’re getting your panties in a wad!

When you run B and C sections your ponies are more tired, hence slower hazards. Then the drivers go to an international show and they are not competitive.
Interesting. Though of course it could be argued that if ponies and horses are fit to compete in a 5 phase event then they’ll have no problem at all in a 3 phase. For a piddling little country we don’t do too bad after all.

That is all.
Watch the door doesn’t hit you on the way out!

[yellowpony]

Nevermind. Clearly not worth the effort.

[yellowpony]

[QUOTE=Renae;2884518]
That would be logical, the Samber line pinto Dutch Warmbloods are very popular with some people.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I have pics somewhere, they are cute horses.

[LostFarmer]

Yellow pony,
Thomas is Thomas and as an Englishman has NEVER made a mistake. Once you understand this and have the appropriate salt grains ready, he really is quite knowledgeable. But the nature of the English is that they tend to be a little terse in stating their superiority. (My father is English.) Don’t run off now I am learning from your debate. LF

[grayarabpony]

Why is it that the Morgans have not done well in international competition?

[gothedistance]

@grayarabpony;2884891

Why is it that the Morgans have not done well in international competition?

It’s not that they haven’t done well. They have. Their problem is they are in the minority when the competition takes place on international soils because Morgans are an American breed not found in great numbers elsewhere. They are also (relatively speaking) small horses in a competition where the trend is towards big horses

If you have one team of Morgans, and 12 other teams composed of big Warmbloods, even if the Morgans place in the top ten, by default the Warmbloods are going to garner all the other placings. That skews the perception.

Sad… but true.

[pricestory]

Shelly Temple’s Morgan, Cooper did very well at the last Pony Worlds.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=yellowpony;2884626]
I’m not the first person to think that you are rude. Perhaps you should reread your posts before you post. [/QUOTE] I’m sure you’re not and I bet I’m the only person to think you have a chip on your shoulder and/or are passive aggressive.

To be honest, I don’t know why you’ve got such a bug up your backside and purely and simply because I happen to have said that I think that the marathon stage has got easier and guessed the horses whose breed you didn’t know. The fact I have a different opinion and experience to you doesn’t mean I’m rude.

I know the breed now because I asked a friend to make sure. I didn’t want to post misinformation for people who are actually wanting to know.
I personally find your postings difficult to understand in terms of the points you are trying to make:

You say you don’t know a breed, I ask you if it was coloured cobs, you attack me for being wrong! duhhhh!

When you run B and C sections your ponies are more tired, hence slower hazards. Then the drivers go to an international show and they are not competitive.
Not necessarily nor evidentially so. You could argue that if a horse is fit to do well and qualify to do fei having done 5 phase events, that when it does 3 phase that its going to find it relatively easy.

That is all.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=LostFarmer;2884875]
Yellow pony,
Thomas is Thomas and as an Englishman has NEVER made a mistake. Once you understand this and have the appropriate salt grains ready, he really is quite knowledgeable. But the nature of the English is that they tend to be a little terse in stating their superiority. (My father is English.) Don’t run off now I am learning from your debate. LF[/QUOTE]

Interesting statement!

Of course there’s cultural diversity and it seems to me that some folks get all uppity and offensive/defensive if you just ask them questions. In my world you ask a question because you want to know the answer and establish facts. No more and no less.

How YOU feel is nothing to do with me. If you allow yourself to think the English are superior, then that’s down to you.

[yellowpony]

How am I the one with the bee in their bonnet when you are the one who took the time to respond to the same post twice?

I didn’t attack you for guessing the breed, I just simply didn’t know what kind of horses they were so I didn’t post. If I had meant colored cobs I would have said so.

I wasn’t talking about the horse having difficulty doing a 3 phase - I was talking more about the driver, their timing not being as good because the turns come up faster and the horse has more power. Not everyone can adjust as well as others, so why not just run your FEI shows how they will be run at a Worlds.

I think it is nice to appreciate the way things used to be done, but just because the sport is different now doesn’t make it wrong. George Bowman has gone to KWPN horses, so he has evolved as well.

As far as breeds go, I think you have to pick the right horse for you. If you have a particular attachment to a breed, perhaps you should realize each has its strengths and weaknesses . If the horse can’t do the job to the level you ask then you either have to be okay with that or switch to a breed/horse who will.

[kearleydk]

That darn LF

He took the words right out of my mouth again!!!

Regarding Thomas. Lf you are spot on. Surely not saying the British are superior, but I was raised hearing the expression “British and best.” I know what you refer to.

Carry on.
Dick