Dry Lot Material?

[lenapesadie]

Hello All!

Short version: Is crushed concrete a suitable material for a dry lot? Some of the pieces are as large as my fist.

We have finally gotten completely moved in at our new property and are able to start work on the horse facilities! I have reached out to a couple of places about material to create a dry lot area. “Base” seems to be the local word for what I want (material that will pack hard). I was able to see some of this base and it is crushed concrete. Some of the pieces are rather large, fist sized at least. My first thought was “stone bruise”. But maybe I’m wrong? Dry lots aren’t really a thing here. Mud lots, yes. Dry lots, not so much. So I don’t have anyone local I can get ideas from.

Will these big pieces in the crushed concrete mix be a problem? I’m told it’s “clean”, suitable to be driven on with cars without fear of trash puncturing a tire. As a first time dry lot builder, I’m terrified of purchasing a large and expensive quantity of unsuitable material.

We are in the FL panhandle near Pensacola. Any tips, advice or personal experiences welcome!

[anon81364900]

wow, no I would not use that. Aside from stone bruises, they do need to lie down and that just sounds like they’d be laying on a rock-hard road base. What’s your current surface in that area, and how’s the drainage, etc? That would inform your decision on what to put on top of that.

I’d definitely go for something more forgiving (and, frankly, attractive). My drylot is well-drained dirt, but in heavy rain or spring melt it would get muddy and then you had frozen hoofmarks that were horrible to walk on. So I added a full load of sand – just spread it on top, no special effort really. Created a soft layer, and after several years that sand is completely mixed in with the dirt. It’s really improved the area-- almost no mud and doesn’t freeze rock-hard solid-- I can take advantage of a nice (for Iowa!) day where it’s upper 20s or so and harrow it to level out any bumps.

Anyway, since you’re in FL, what about crushed shells (no direct experience with it, but I’ve been on crushed shell driveways and it seems like it would be a nice surface for a drylot).

[Simkie]

Unless that’s your base, and you have a whole lot of other material (like screenings) over it, then no, not a good idea.

Do you not have a local (ish) quarry that can deliver screenings? Is that why this product is being recommended?

[S1969]

Agree with above; if you get something like crushed concrete, I would have it compacted and cover with sand or something softer.

I have a stone dust “dry lot” around part of my barnyard. It’s also a driveway, so it is firmly packed. It’s great to keep them up out of the mud when we have really severe weather, because I have clay which gets really deep. But my horses don’t choose to lie down on the stonedust.

If it wasn’t a driveway, I might be able to use my arena drag on it and keep it softer, but they still would probably choose to lie on the bare ground if they have an option and it’s not totally muddy.

[lenapesadie]

Thanks so much for your reply! The existing soil is a red clay. Turns into terrible sticky mud with high traffic and rain.

Crushed oyster shell is available, but it’s super sharp.

Sand is an option, but I was hoping for something firmer and safe for hay to be eaten on.

[2DogsFarm]

My sacrifice paddock is footed with 9" of what the excavator called Road Base - stones from an inch or less to fist-sized. Some angular, some rounded.
He put down geotextile first, then dumped the Base on top - probably 10yrs ago.
Shallow-rooted grasses & weeds have grown through the base, but it remains hard-packed & dry, where the places I did not put down this material - at gate entrances to pasture - become muddy messes when we get a lot of rain.
Horses WTGallop on the Base & nobody gets hurt.
They also nap on it.
In deep Winter I do toss flakes of hay out in the sacrifice area for them to “graze”.
I pick up the bigger rocks when I see them & have been forming a border along my fenceline, but that is a looong way from done.
The only issue is where bedding (pelleted) & hay get dragged out from the stalls & have formed a mucky area about 10’ out from the stalls. Horses have free access 24/7 & go in & out as they please.
I pick the area of manure, but not religiously, so I am part of this problem.
More of an annoyance for me - horses don’t seem to be bothered, also nap in the muck & not a case of scratches on anyone.

[lenapesadie]

Thanks for your input! I asked for screenings and was advised the local product, limestone screenings, would not pack or harden without additional work (watering, vibrating roller). I was rather hoping for something we could level and “pack” by driving the tractor around.

It is highly possible that there is a miscommunication between the providers and I regarding the level of hardness needed.

Do I really need the surface to pack hard?

I was kind of hoping to make a large pad of some sort of hard material to set my “barn” on and adjacent “dry lot” on.

It seems the local custom is to deal with the owner / operator of the dump truck delivery service instead of the actual source of the materials.

[2DogsFarm]

@lenapesadie

Do I really need the surface to pack hard?

As best I can recall, the only packing that got done was when excavator drove his skidster around to spread the piles of Base dumped by truck.
It was loose-ish at first, now feels like concrete to me.

[lenapesadie]

Thank you for your thoughts!

The dry lot is really just runs attached to stalls, so the horses would have the option of laying down on something other than the dry lot material.

It seems though I should keep digging for a better product.

I’m imaging my barn aisle and stall floors done in crushed concrete and it isn’t pretty.

[lenapesadie]

It sounds like your material is very similar to what is being offered to me. They also call this stuff road base, though crushed asphalt is also used similarly. And the packing while spreading the material is exactly what I had in mind.

Do you have the same material in your barn or is that a different product?

[Simkie]

Lime screenings pack GREAT–far better than the blue stone dust we have around here.

[lenapesadie]

That’s very good info!

I suspected my idea of packed and the dump truck driver’s idea if packed might be different.

I’ll probably go that route

[anon81364900]

Well, it’s not a bad idea to work with the excavator, because quarry terminology really varies depending on the region you’re from. Quarries are a wholesale business-- it’s not like they have a showroom with samples or staff available to walk you through all your options and end uses for the various types of material. (Some do, but it’s not common). To the quarry, we private horse owners are low-frequency, small quantity retail customers who want very specific surface characteristics but don’t necessarily know what to call it, how much we need, etc. So in this regard, a knowledgeable contractor may be more helpful to figure out what you want/need and translate that into an order at the quarry.

[lenapesadie]

That seems to be the gist of it. I think we are planning on 44 yds to start with. Two loads I’m told. The contractor/excavator (my dad) and the dump truck driver think a 2” layer would be sufficient but I am pressing for 4”.

[anon81364900]

@lenapesadie

I suspected my idea of packed and the dump truck driver’s idea if packed might be different.

ETA: I didn’t see your post that you do have a contractor, so deleting most of this.

The quarry’s delivery driver is not going to spend a minute more on your site than it takes to drop their load where you say you want it. They can lay the material down while pulling forward, so it’s very roughly spread out, but there would be lumps, gaps, etc.
Some are better at this than others, but regardless it would not resemble a finished surface.

[Simkie]

@anon81364900

The quarry’s delivery driver is not going to spend a minute more on your site than it takes to drop their load where you say you want it. They can lay the material down while pulling forward, so it’s very roughly spread out, but there would be lumps, gaps, etc.

I think this depends on the quarry?

The one in MN had a spreader truck. As the truck pulled forward and material was dumped, it landed on a spinning plate that did a very nice job distributing an even path that was maybe 10-12’ wide. It was pretty cool, and something that was included in the delivery charge, but you did have to ask when you called to order.

[anon81364900]

2" will quickly disappear into the clay. To support your smart request for greater depth, it might help to consider the PSI (force) that horse hooves exert on the ground vs a car. Each car tire is pushing about 40 PSI on the surface beneath them, and they apply rounded, smooth, generally level pressure. In contrast, hooves are each exerting 100 PSI with sharp edges that dig into the ground vs just rolling flat over it.

ETA: that said, if your father is really convinced he’s right, no harm in going with 2", and just see how long it lasts. Two dump truck loads is not all that expensive (here, there about $300 each load) so it’s not like there’s an enormous cost to being wrong here.

[punchy]

My guy recommended 3” and I ended up getting almost 4”. It was good enough for 2 years, then I got some more myself, and now, heading into 5 years, I expect to get more next summer. It’s worse if you have snow, which you don’t have in Florida, because the screenings get packed with snow in their feet and a lot gets tracked out. The surface hardens nice, but when we get a foot of snow and my horse runs around performing his circus tricks, and then the snow starts melting, it gets mushy on top. And to get it to harden, it needs to get a good hard rain. I also rake it periodically to keep it smooth so the water runs off it instead of getting trapped.

[lenapesadie]

This is how I understand the process will work, driver dumps as he’s driving around so the material isn’t in one huge pile. Then we have a guy on a piece of machinery ( read my boyfriend on either a tractor or mini ex) spread it around. Maybe hit it with the water hose if it’s super dry and then drive machinery around on it to pack it into place a bit.

Very scientific lol!

I am considering having a load of clay brought first to build the area up a bit. We get a lot of rain here and I am determined to have the barn and runs high and dry.

[lenapesadie]

That’s very cool. I don’t think any of our contacts have a truck like that. I will ask though!

Here the dump trucks seem to be independent from the yards / pits / quarries