Please share your experiences - have you seen this ? Which bloodlines? Age of onset?
If anyone has had particular luck with a management/treatment plan would be interested in knowing the details.
Yes, I’ve seen it, but I don’t know the breeding on the animals. All the ones of that breeding have been in the early teens or later.
It’s a progressive disease, so there’s really no treatment, just management. Frequent trimming is a must - can’t let the toes get long. Wedges have helped some horses, not others. Judicious use of bute/Equioxx can be useful. Some horses seem to live for years with it without any real discomfort apparent, where others get very comfortable early on. I don’t know that anyone has determined the difference between those categories.
Keep the weight lean - definitely don’t need extra weight. Keep the diet low in starch, as you don’t need the potential catalyst for inflammation. Adequan/Pentosan/etc might be of help, might not. Quality nutrition and lots of it might help slow things but nothing is proven on that that I know of.
My 10 year old mare has been diagnosed with DLSD in correlation with her suspensory tear/failure. She is slightly straighter in her hind legs and I think the DLSD diagnosis was more of a result of a lack of support from the suspensory ligament tear in her case. Anyways, I have done a lot of research on potential management/treatment and egg bar shoes, AAKG (L-Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate, an amino acid), MSM supplements, and bute/previcox as needed is the general recommendation from our vet. However, I did stumble across fetlock support shoes as a potential treatment and that did seem promising if you can get your farrier to work with you - here’s a link:
https://www.americanfarriers.com/articles/218-fetlock-support-shoe-helps-suspensory-ligament-injuries
We keep her at a lower body score, and I have noticed a definite difference in her leg after she lost weight. Personally, I haven’t had too much luck in rehabilitating her though, as she has a pretty nasty suspensory tear. She is a Hanoverian and her sire is Wolkentanz I and her dam sire is Argentan. I don’t know too much about what WB lines are known for DLSD or if there is any correlation, this is just my experience with Suspensory failure/deterioration. Good luck, hope this helps!
Flying, that sounds like suspensory ligament desmitis, which is the result of some injury, rather than DSLD/ESPA which is a systemic disease.
Doesn’t DSLD present bilaterally? Both fronts, or both rear, or all four?
The one horse I new that probanly had DSLD, was a saddlebred. It was years ago, and called ‘coon foot’ then.
He wore special shoes on his hind feet that supported his fetlocks, and his stall was kept deeply bedded. He had the habit of making a small hill of shavings for his hind feet to stand in, so that his toes pointed almost straight down.
He was never turned out because of the shoes.
He developed laminitis in his fronts and was PTS.
edit to add: I was able to look at the shoes linked to above. Those aren’t the shoes the horse I knew wore. His had pads, shims and long trailers.
Sorry you are dealing with this. Hope you and your horse can have some happy times together.
have you seen this ? Yes
Which bloodlines? Many, incl Paso, TB, QH and others
Age of onset? In my own horse it was a TB, age 23, post stress and ulcer development. IMO the ulcers and stress exacerbated the DSLD/ESPA and his fetlocks dropped.
I managed him 6 years after they dropped in retirement with corrective/supportive shoeing, an IR diet and lots of turnout and pain management. I didn’t go for the AAKG/Jiaogulan because it means you have to forego other pain management that I had already been using for other issues he had.
There is a DSLD/ESPA group that offers some good anecdotal information, alas they offer it as if it is scientific fact… they also offer the success of the AAKG/Jiaogulan therapy as the way to go, while their own admin is the source for said concoction… so you must read what they offer with a very large grain of salt.
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Coon feet develops often as a result of overly straight hocks, which eventually wear out the suspensory aparatus.
DLSD weakens the suspensory aparatus and leads to a coon-foot presentation.
And yes, while DSLD might present (more) on one at first, it’s a systemic issue and will quickly progress to both, hinds usually because of the weight
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OP, I bumped a thread in Horse Care for you.
It is titled ‘What would you use to support the ankles of a coon footed horse during exercise’.
At the bottom of the page under Similar Threads there are other threads on Coon Foot.
Edit to add:
Now know from JB Coon Foot and DLSD are not exactly the same, but hope you find some info that helps.
It isn’t just WBs and WBxs. The worst case I’ve seen was on an OTTB in the early 90s. Super, super horse and it was a real shame. He was well managed and, though he was retired from work in his teens, he lived comfortably to his mid 20s.
I don’t recall his bloodlines.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8756153]
It isn’t just WBs and WBxs. The worst case I’ve seen was on an OTTB in the early 90s. Super, super horse and it was a real shame. He was well managed and, though he was retired from work in his teens, he lived comfortably to his mid 20s.
I don’t recall his bloodlines.[/QUOTE]
More accurately it is rarely wbs, and is most common in TBS and Pasos and a few other breeds.
I’ve seen it in a R line Hanoverian broodmare, both hinds. According to one vet she passed on loose ligaments to her foals, to the point that they hyper flexed in the hocks. Don’t know how the ended up or how she ended up. I sure would not have been breeding her though.
I’ve cared for a ASB with the issue, was barefoot behind, no shoes, MSM helped until it did not, bute daily for the time he was here. Eventually was euthanized because of the disease at mid 20’s.
Arabians are also prone to this issue, I’ve seen it in broodmares and a vet friend has treated it in a Arab/TB cross. She also passed it on to her offspring. Ended up euthanizing her because of the issue.
[QUOTE=ladyj79;8756308]
More accurately it is rarely wbs, and is most common in TBS and Pasos and a few other breeds.[/QUOTE]
what? where are you getting that?
i’ve ONLY dealt with DSLD/ESPA in warmbloods. which is ironic, only because i’d say i deal primarily with TBs. obviously it happens in many breeds but unless you have concrete evidence/proof of studies linking it to TBs i’d be very hesitant to say it is more common among specific breeds.
i don’t think many people are keen to pass on the bloodlines of what horses they had have it – for many reasons.
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[QUOTE=beowulf;8758053]
what? where are you getting that?
i’ve ONLY dealt with DSLD/ESPA in warmbloods. which is ironic, only because i’d say i deal primarily with TBs. obviously it happens in many breeds but unless you have concrete evidence/proof of studies linking it to TBs i’d be very hesitant to say it is more common among specific breeds.
i don’t think many people are keen to pass on the bloodlines of what horses they had have it – for many reasons.[/QUOTE]
UC Davis. University of Kentucky. University of Georgia. Every veterinary study ever done on the subject. Which I was compelled to research years ago given my own personal experience with multiple TBS with dsld.
[QUOTE=ladyj79;8758076]
UC Davis. University of Kentucky. University of Georgia. Every veterinary study ever done on the subject. Which I was compelled to research years ago given my own personal experience with multiple TBS with dsld.[/QUOTE]
Link? I am only finding studies on management, and one study done by BMC with Peruvian Pasos.
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I managed a mother/daughter pair of Arabs who had it in their hinds. The vets in charge of their care said it was common in Pasos, and clearly occurs in Arabs.
I can think of three warmbloods off the top of my head that had either DSLD or suspensory ligament desmitis.
1 - Hanoverian gelding by Don Frederico. It developed at a fairly young age - he was showing clear signs of it by age six or so. Nevertheless, he had an outstanding career in the YH classes, and jumped to PSG very quickly. He hasn’t been stellar at PSG - not sure if it is because he was pushed too quickly (started showing at that level at age 7), or because of a rider change, or if the DSLD was beginning to progress to the point of affecting his riding career.
2 - Oldenburg mare by Quidam’s Rubin. She showed in hunters for several years after being imported, but had a hind suspensory injury at a fairly young age - 7, I believe. She was bred a year later, and the hormones associated with pregnancy caused her ligaments to let go. Her condition definitely started with suspensory ligament desmitis, but the fact that she was practically walking on her fetlocks by the end of her pregnancy, made everyone involved suspect she had developed DSLD. She managed to get around enough to care for her foal, mostly because the farrier had fitted her with support shoes behind that looked like snowshoes on backwards, but she was pretty crippled. Last I heard, they were going to euthanize after her foal was weaned, but I don’t know if that occurred or not.
3 - older warmblood mare in Germany. I don’t remember who her sire was, but her dam was from Donnerhall bloodlines. She was in her early teens when I saw her, and had been a broodmare all her life. Her fetlocks were pretty dropped, and she was having a fair amount of trouble getting around. I believe the plan was to euthanize her as soon after she foaled as they could safely manage the foal - either by putting it on a foster mare, or weaning it to a bucket.
In all three of these cases, I don’t know the full bloodlines, so really can’t say if it was coming through the sire line, or dam line.
I also have to question LadyJ’s comment -I’ve seen it (and know of people who have dealt with it) in several Warmbloods. I’ve also seen it in a couple of Arabians. I’ve never seen it in a Tbred (and I know a lot of people with Tbreds) - have seen lots of other leg/hoof issues in the Tbred, but interestingly, not yet this problem, although I’m sure it exists.
I wouldn’t say it is limited to a certain line of Warmbloods, so much as maybe a specific horse with specific conformation issues? That would be interesting research.
Lax (and long) pasterns are really common in WBs, and I don’t even know if THAT is an indicator of later DSLD? I would think that, combined with a straighter hind leg, might become an issue?
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I think it would be foolish to say it is not in WB. It is in TBs and TBs have been and are used in WB breeding. Without even doing a Google search, I can think of several WB stallions that have a TB sire or dam.
My TB gelding has it. He had an initial suspensory injury which I rehabbed him from. His fetlocks were dropping and had a 2nd issue when he was diagnosed with DSLD.
[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8758753]
I also have to question LadyJ’s comment -I’ve seen it (and know of people who have dealt with it) in several Warmbloods. I’ve also seen it in a couple of Arabians. I’ve never seen it in a Tbred (and I know a lot of people with Tbreds) - have seen lots of other leg/hoof issues in the Tbred, but interestingly, not yet this problem, although I’m sure it exists.
I wouldn’t say it is limited to a certain line of Warmbloods, so much as maybe a specific horse with specific conformation issues? That would be interesting research.
Lax (and long) pasterns are really common in WBs, and I don’t even know if THAT is an indicator of later DSLD? I would think that, combined with a straighter hind leg, might become an issue?[/QUOTE]
Only one I’ve personally known was a Friesian/TB. Both hinds and painfully apparent at age 3. Owner was actively marketing her as a dressage prospect and took extreme offense to the suggestion that she should have a vet out.
I never had the problem in any TBs I owned but I had friends with TBs who had problems with it.
WBs are crosses, so I would bet the problems would come from the TB lines used to create WBs.
