Yes, my two TB girls were/are Storm Cat granddaughters, with one of them sired by Black Minnaloushe and the other by Storm Broker. I can’t understand why they weren’t big stakes winners—I think they were sabotaged! 
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It’s interesting that many of you have seen such drastic personality changes. I never have. To date I’ve owned 11 horses, of those, six were 2 or 3 yo when I bought them. None of their personalities changed.
They did go through mental growths but their essential character did not change.
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Hm. I have had 8 owned horses and leased several beyond that. My current horse has always been a big Labrador retriever in terms of sweetness, but was a basket case both under saddle and in hand. She would get set off and set off others. Got her on Regumate and treated her for asthma, and she is a different horse. It’s our fourth winter and she is a kick ride without a single spook. Never seen that before! We used to joke there was “Winter Dobbin” and “Summer Dobbin”. No more. She is easy peasy, and even a bit too quiet, maybe, for a jumper. She is still the same, sweet lab… but without the edge.
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It’s not really personality changes, it’s that very young horses are mostly concerned with balancing themselves with a rider and don’t usually have the strength and under-saddle coordination to act up.
The five- and six-year-old years have similarities to human toddler years. They’re suddenly testing boundaries and have developed enough strength to do more than just focus on keeping their balance with a rider.
It’s just a rite of passage that most young horses go through.
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So maybe it was health issues vs age? Dunno. The two horses of mine that were a bit spooky at two yo were edgy/spooky at 15 yo. And the others were calm and forward both as younguns and oldies.
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Definitely health issue vs age, IMO. But how do you rule that out? I have also had the youngin (6 yo) who acted like an old campaigner, except she trusted me too much. My point was, you don’t know what drives the “personality issues”.
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I’m just here with the popcorn
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I find youngsters, likewise, to be concerned with their environment. Even an “elderly” horse who’s worked through its triggers maintains its character & innate personality traits
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Lots of pearl clutching over riding 2-year-olds.
I’m personally not a fan of futurities and aged-event stuff in any discipline that places a big financial incentive on working horses hard when they’re very young.
However, I’m of the opinion that it’s better and kinder to start baby horses fairly young, at 2 or 3, and allow them to carry a lightweight rider on a long rein in a low-stress setting for a while and build up very slowly, than it is to wait til the horse is a nearly-mature pasture puff then pull him out of the field and into full work.
We don’t tell hopeful human athletes they have to chill on the couch til they’ve finished puberty. Why should it be necessary for horses?
And for what it’s worth, while I personally reject the idea of pushing young horses hard, the available data on racehorses shows that ones that raced at 2 actually stayed sounder longer than ones that didn’t race until they were older. It’s not a perfect example, and there may well be some confounding factors, but it’s a start.
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It’s not racing at two that results in better soundness, it’s concussion on the bones that helps with longevity. The stress remodels the bone and makes it stronger.
And I don’t think that waiting until three is pulling a mature horse out of the field and putting them to work. Most people with baby horses do plenty with them before they’re ridden, like long-lining, in-hand showing, trick training, etc.
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Which is not at all what the video showed.
I’m good with saddling and sitting on a 2 year old, especially one that your spidey senses say might be a fractious little stinker. I’m good with loose rein gentle work on big circles - if the horse is sweating, you’ve done too much. Go, stop, steer - that’s it. About 5 rides of that, and back into the field they go for a year.
The video shows a 2 year old in a way too small round pen being forced on contact, wearing a martingale.
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Ah yes, showing concern for the long term welfare of physically and mentally immature young horses is ‘pearl clutching’. How patronising.
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Once more, for those in the back.
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Except that reputable breeders have done their due diligence in the dam line, as well. If the mare line has had success in the big ring and the sire, those genetics do give a higher statistical probability that the nick will produce a more athletic horse.
We see it all the time, a high performing sire bred a subpar mare. Either side can only account for so much.
People can “luck out” and have a fluke freak jumper or performer. But a lot of research goes into some breeding programs. That doesn’t always translate to an Olympic horse, but a horse capable of consistently performing at a higher level.
I have one with lines and full siblings dojng the GPs. He’s got more scope than I will ever need but it’s nice sitting on something that was bred (and capable of doing more).
You don’t ride papers, but having the background information on lines and successful nicks- going back to grandsire and dam lines is helpful.
I do more eye rolling on FB when backyard breeders take their maybe lovely mare or pull a vagina out of a field, breed to a successful stallion and make those claims.
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Not really. Gelders are not often seen anymore at the top level. Geerts has a team but I can’t think of anyone else. At the pair/team level there definitely are more modern DHH but they are not totally dominant, there’s plenty of arabos, lippis and my faves, freiburgs. At the singles level it’s all over the place, if you can dream it, they’ve got it. 3rd place in marathon at the single horse world ch at Haras was a Welsh cross, and I think some bit of that cross is tb. She’s an amazing mare in all phases .
There’s a philosophical war going on over movement with the Eastern block judges favoring the vertical high steppers and Western judges more into elasticity so that is changing up driver selection as well. Also, courses make horses and everything is a lot more technical these days with plenty of obstacles lacking a power option, so big x 4 makes the job a lot harder and that’s probably going to really impact these harness lines because some of those lines are huge. I know Chester’s newer leaders are smaller and I’m sure there’s some thoughts on the wheelers as well if he hasn’t already done that.
If you are a Boyd or Chester you get the absolute best of the best because you are the best and also have the most money, so yeah, they have very modern, very talented, very matched DHH. But those horses move a lot differently from what you see in plenty of other DHH. They have the perfect blend of action AND elasticity and it’s breathtaking. It’s obviously very hard to find and develop since you see very few teams like that (Misdee also has a team like that but it’s Boyd’s former team). There’s also a whole lot of sewing machines who really struggle with being through the topline, which is a challenge in the breed since dressage isn’t the core skill, historically speaking. Needless to say, the US DHH breeders aren’t ahead of Europe in this area.
So yes DHH is a thing in combined driving, but it’s by no means the only thing for a variety of reasons.
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I’m inclined to agree with you inasmuch as your post references reputable breeders using stallion and mare lines with offspring actively competing at the levels advertised. My post was more aimed towards certain backyard breeder types.
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Totally agree.
Except there’s no evidence I’m aware of that starting 2-year-olds under saddle and letting them get used to balancing a rider and learning the basics is harmful to their welfare or long-term soundness. I would even say that starting them earlyish and giving them a year or two for those basics to form a solid foundation before they’re asked to do anything more than tootle around and go for short hacks is more likely to give you a sound, happy, reliable horse compared to waiting until he’s 4 or 5 then putting him into more serious work soon after being started.
Saying “In my opinion that video shows someone asking way too much of that particular horse at that age” is completely fair (and probably even warranted), but there seemed to be quite a few comments expressing horror and blanket condemnation that a 2-year-old was carrying a rider at all. That’s what I disagree with.
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OP said the horse was ridden 3 times and then will be turned out to pasture to grow. What is the problem?
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