Dutch harness horse drama. Update major mare/ foal neglect Nov 2023 post 1782 Update Kate Shearer responds post 1930 Nov 25/23

[fordtraktor]

The Keuring process is laid out on the KWPN and KWPN-NA sites in detail.

Foals are evaluated loose behind their dams at the walk, trot, and canter, as well as for conformation and type.

The goals are scored 1-10 on each attribute and averaged to a total.

Kate’s foal was second highest scoring in the nation for Jumper direction and won the futurity (many don’t enter the futurity). It’s a nice achievement.

I personally think the Keurings are valuable both as a snapshot in time, marketability, and honestly as feedback to the breeder.

IMO, not as much for hunters (they don’t do hunters in the Netherlands), but the jumper, dressage, and harness evaluators are really excellent. They are brought over from the Netherlands and truly are experts. I have the Keuring reports on both my KWPN horses and the comments are quite accurate for what the horses turned out to be down the road.

There is free jumping but only for older horses. I think starting at 3? I will also say that performance in the chute does not equal quality for the GP ring either! A real 1.6 m horse is both highly hereditary and a freak of nature! You have to get that special mix of scope, trainability, boldness, and carefulness…not to mention the rider side.

[BigMama1]

@2bayboys

Since this reporter is a 20-year veteran with Tulsa World and has an account at Muck Rack, which is a site for journalists to catalogue and showcase their work, one would presume he would want his stories to be accurate.

I presume he reported exactly what the person interviewed told him.

If Tulsa World learned after the fact it was correct, they would probably update the online version of the article with the correct information, but it’s not exactly a top story.

It would be really weird if some random stranger on the internet were so invested in this person’s potential puffery about her career that they went out of their way to contact a journalist who once wrote an article about her.

[fordtraktor]

I agree, super weird. The reporter would probably think the person contacting was a bit “off.” This late in time there isn’t going to be a correction published.

[Jaegermonster]

@quietann

Yeah, who said anything about shoes? (Other than a discussion about winter shoes in cold climates.)

Don’t forget the flip flops

[enjoytheride]

The person you are responding to is a barefoot proponent and was critiquing the horse being sold as a hunter. So that’s who. Is it necessary to critique a sales horse trim on this thread?

[MHM]

Just saw this article from the Chronicle about producing youngsters in this country.

Emil Spadone Is Chasing His Dream Of Breeding Top Hunters

[Kasheare]

Where Emil backs his 2yo….like what everyone attacked above on someone that owns one of mine for putting 60 days on at the end of her 2yo year(now she’s 3) before kicking her back out. But since Emil does it most will agree now

[CanteringCarrot]

@Kasheare

Where Emil backs his 2yo….like what everyone attacked above on someone that owns one of mine for putting 60 days on at the end of her 2yo year(now she’s 3) before kicking her back out. But since Emil does it most will agree now

Has anyone here said they agree now because Emil does it? What an assumption…

I don’t fancy putting 60 days on a 2 year old, I don’t care who you are I’ve brought along quite a few young horses and prefer to start at some point in their 3 year old year, unless a horse seems to really need more time to mature for some reason.

[McGurk]

The article actually states:

“When they turn 2, Bell spends 30 days starting each horse, before they return to the field. At 3 they come in for another 45 days of training. When they’re 4 they join the Redfield Farm training program.”

This is way different than putting a horse in heavy Western tack and asking it to work in a frame. Apples and oranges.

And to @CanteringCarrot s point, no one here jumped on the bandwagon endorsing it, either.

I don’t have enough information about it to make a judgment. If they put an exercise rider up in light tack and teach them how to stop, turn and steer on a loose rein before turning them out to grow, I’m okay with that. More than okay, depending on how it’s done. If you’re putting a 2 yo into regular work, and expecting it to carry a frame, yeah, I have a problem.

[MHM]

@McGurk

The article actually states:

“When they turn 2, Bell spends 30 days starting each horse, before they return to the field.

Plus from that amount of information, it’s impossible to tell if they spend 30 days getting ridden, or 29 days getting lunged, long lined, tacked up, and then ridden once, or anywhere in between.

[Alterration]

@MHM

Plus from that amount of information, it’s impossible to tell if they spend 30 days getting ridden, or 29 days getting lunged, long lined, tacked up, and then ridden once, or anywhere in between.

When I was younger, I was a WS at a place that had a schedule similar to this. And typically it was ~25 days of lunging, long lining, learning to accept the bit, learning to wear the saddle, being leaned on (we did a lot of leaning), obviously depending on the horse. Then they would be mounted (on the longe line) and if that went well, walked with basic steering and maybe if they were super quiet trotted lightly for a total of around 5 rides.

As a 3 year old the whole thing was repeated. Then as a 4 year old they began work.

[MHM]

Yes, I knew somebody years ago who had a similar program.

They would also add a few low key trail rides with a very quiet older horse to the three year old year, and then kick the babies back out in the field again.

[Kasheare]

Technically it was from the time the horse was almost 3(this year)……

[Warmblood1]

@Ambitious_Kate

@Kasheare

Thank goodness then the majority of my hard working clients don’t spend all day reading coth and responding

This stuck out to me. All I could think of “How do you know?”

There are close to a million people on COTH aren’t there? And how many more who don’t register but still read it? People can correct me if I’m wrong. Some, if not most, of the top people in horses in the world, globally, not just in the US, but globally, read this forum. I don’t think there is anyone in the horse world who doesn’t read this forum. They may not post, but never, ever, assume your clients don’t read this forum. Big mistake. BIG mistake.

If your current clients are enough for you, and they really don’t ever read this forum, then you are all set. If you ever thought you might expand your client base and get more clients, you can start out by assuming, correctly, that there is a large percentage of those who might have done business with you, or at least considered it, who will not be doing so, having read this forum, or after talking with someone who has read what you have posted on this forum. Pat yourself on the back, but never underestimate the reach of COTH.

If you go to the ”users” tab on COTH, it shows that there are a little over 120k users. Far from a million. Also, I wouldn’t say world wide either. I would say most users are based in the US with some also in Europe. I don’t believe COTH represents world wide equestrians because it seems limited to predominantly the US and Europe.

Regardless, there are A LOT of equestrians that do not participate in COTH, that I know for sure. In fact, the vast majority of equestrians I do know are not consistently using COTH. The horse world is small, however, and reputations are established fast, but I do not think it’s that is necessarily because of COTH.

@Ambitious_Kate

@skydy

@Kasheare, you seem to be an enthusiastic yet novice breeder, who could do with some further education regarding KWPN NA Keurings (announcing that your foals were first or second premium is indicative of that.) There is always more to learn, but people expect a Breeder to know the ins and outs of their registry.

As you agreed, breeding is a long term endeavor, and the success or failure of your new program to produce jumpers depends upon the performance of your stock as riding horses.

I suppose you might succeed financially in the short term, by selling an (unproven) cross on DHH mares, in utero , to amateurs, and waiting to see how/if they eventually perform in the jumper ring. However (IMHO) that is not a breeding program as such, it is a selling program.

It would be better not to make untrue claims online, (being an Attorney is one) because trust is important and what you say publicly, and how you say it, matters.

I am wayyy behind on this thread, and have no dog in this fight. However, this seems to be the best composite assessment of this breeder so far, to me.

I am an oldster, and have no horse at this moment. I have a moderate past with many many friends who are now breeding and training horses in their respective disciplines, and I have often referred them to people I have run across on line either for sales, as their horses seem to fit the programs of people looking for horses to buy, or for others who are promoting their studs or dams. Just a word of mouth thing. These are hunter, jumper and dressage people. None of them would be interested in your horses. Not because they aren’t wonderful horses, but because they don’t fit the high end criteria hunter people want, or jumper people want, or dressage people want.

Why? because your enthusiasm, while admirable, doesn’t equate production. Any breeder I know who wants to promote their offspring, trains and shows them at the levels they want to market them in.

You aren’t training and showing your horses at the high levels you want to market them in. You don’t know how they will perform at 7, 10, 15 years of age becauseyou haven’t put in the work for that.
Maybe these horses will compete well at that level, but you haven’t shown that. the foals you picture are vastly different from each other in type and conformation, typical, to me, of unsure genomics. That’s ok. Sell them to ammys who want a lovely horse. But don’t say you are taking the divisions by storm with an all new type of horse you can confidently produce. Because as per your photos, you can’t.

Your personality is that of a youngster who thinks they have a leg up on the oldsters who know horses, but one who doesn’t yet know the basics of long term breeding of lines and type, who does’t yet have win after win in the discipline they are aiming at. Good luck, I say, but don’t brag beyond what you actually have done.

I think this is pretty harsh to say. The fact is is that most equestrians are amateurs. They aren’t looking for GP prospects. They are looking for solid citizens with some decent talent. To say no one would be interested in these horses is, from my experience, inaccurate. I think these horses will eventually sell. Will they command the prices listed as foals? I do not think they all will, but not every breeder sells every foal they have. It takes time and proven results to get that type of reputation. Reputations are built. I do think people should be allowed to prove themselves. No, this person can’t attest to their offspring at 10 years of age because they have not been breeding for 10 years. I don’t believe that’s a reason to automatically dismiss them though.

On another note, I also have to wonder how many here are breeding themselves. What are you doing that is substantially better than what you are seeing here? I’d love it if you shared. I think it would add more substance to the conversation.

[tricksterortrackster]

So it’s not true you got banned from Romas and Horse and hound? Because I’ve heard from bartenders from both of those places you were cited and are not welcome back. Why do you feel the need to lie and say everyone is just out to get you? You started trouble at horse and hound and wanted to be all big and bad and bad mouth a guys girlfriend to his face and call her a slut?? And you act like he poured beer on you for no reason at all?? And you got the bartender from horse and hound fired because you got offended over his fb post saying you deserved it and called horse and hound and complained about him like a child. You then tracked him down to his new job at Roma’s and tried harassing him there, but lucky for him he knew what you were up to and had his boss witness the whole fiasco there and had you cited and removed from Romas. So no, no one is following you and harassing you. You’re the problem and you’re the instigator. You love to try to play the victim game but hate when you lose. Stop saying you got “assaulted” because having beer poured on your head is far from getting hit or beaten up drama Queen. Ocala is a small town and sadly a lot of people know about you already in the horse world there. Your reputation isn’t looking too good so far.

[Jaegermonster]

@tricksterortrackster

So it’s not true you got banned from Romas and Horse and hound? Because I’ve heard from bartenders from both of those places you were cited and are not welcome back. Why do you feel the need to lie and say everyone is just out to get you? You started trouble at horse and hound and wanted to be all big and bad and bad mouth a guys girlfriend to his face and call her a slut?? And you act like he poured beer on you for no reason at all?? And you got the bartender from horse and hound fired because you got offended over his fb post saying you deserved it and called horse and hound and complained about him like a child. You then tracked him down to his new job at Roma’s and tried harassing him there, but lucky for him he knew what you were up to and had his boss witness the whole fiasco there and had you cited and removed from Romas. So no, no one is following you and harassing you. You’re the problem and you’re the instigator. You love to try to play the victim game but hate when you lose. Stop saying you got “assaulted” because having beer poured on your head is far from getting hit or beaten up drama Queen. Ocala is a small town and sadly a lot of people know about you already in the horse world there. Your reputation isn’t looking too good so far.

QFP

Glad to see you just joined 10 minutes ago to make a nasty post

actually under Fl law pouring a beer on someone is considered a battery and not an assault. It’s equal to punching someone in the face and the law treats it the same way. Battery is any unauthorized touching by another no matter what they are “touched” with

[SillyHorse]

[tricksterortrackster]

It’s not a nasty post if I’m posting facts and exposing her lies.

[Jaegermonster]

@tricksterortrackster

It’s not a nasty post if I’m posting facts and exposing her lies.

It is a nasty post no matter what you’re doing. Often it’s not what you say but how you say it .
And while I hesitate to call anyone a liar, let’s just say some of your information is , shall we say, factually incorrect.

[Bristol_Bay]

@tricksterortrackster

So it’s not true you got banned from Romas and Horse and hound? Because I’ve heard from bartenders from both of those places you were cited and are not welcome back. Why do you feel the need to lie and say everyone is just out to get you? You started trouble at horse and hound and wanted to be all big and bad and bad mouth a guys girlfriend to his face and call her a slut?? And you act like he poured beer on you for no reason at all?? And you got the bartender from horse and hound fired because you got offended over his fb post saying you deserved it and called horse and hound and complained about him like a child. You then tracked him down to his new job at Roma’s and tried harassing him there, but lucky for him he knew what you were up to and had his boss witness the whole fiasco there and had you cited and removed from Romas. So no, no one is following you and harassing you. You’re the problem and you’re the instigator. You love to try to play the victim game but hate when you lose. Stop saying you got “assaulted” because having beer poured on your head is far from getting hit or beaten up drama Queen. Ocala is a small town and sadly a lot of people know about you already in the horse world there. Your reputation isn’t looking too good so far.

$hit just got real.