Yes sorry for not clarifying. I would never fetal sex a typical ET. But technically an icsi is an ET at least I have to check both boxes on the Kwpn papers lol
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That’s not the point, though, is it. The point of SOCMOB is a claim that the victim had absolutely nothing to do with, and therefore shares no responsibility for, what happened.
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Interesting. I never thought about the difference. The ICSI procedure uses much less sperm. But neither are totally neutral on the donor mare.
Yes. In situations where it’s pretty clear the violence was gang related, as they say around here.
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I have no idea what you just said…
Google, translate this for me… 
Edit. Thanks Google. Yes, that is enough internet for me today. I feel like “the birds and the bees” just became “the birds and the bees and the microbiologist”. Oh but we live in gloriously science-y times!
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It’s actually really interesting and I’ve learned a lot during the process. Literally they take 1/10 of a straw and take a single speed and put that into a single oocyte. It’s actually really fascinating!!! ! 7 beautiful oocytes waiting for their swimmers lol image|481x500
Edit: sperm not speed…typing on my phone
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How do they decide which sperm? (Although I think speeders is probably a better name!) And what is the success rate?
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I’m sure the Drs doing this dont care all that much about those impacts except as they effect the program. Having been through a few miscarriages myself and learning about a friend’s IVF saga, pregnancy stops and starts are not a fun ride as the uterus holder…
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They let us decide. I have a huge sperm collection to choose from. But if you mean which sperm in the actual portion of the straw there is actually a ranking depending on how it swims(swimming in circles or sideways is bad), how the tail on the sperm looks, etc. It’s really fascinating. Dr Roger Souza has a bunch of stuff on his page
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This is actually a bit interesting because I was wondering how they select the sperm, and if there are any advantages or disadvantages in comparison to letting nature chose the sperm that fertilizes the egg.
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I was wondering the same thing!
Re: sperm selection - I’ve been away from the breeding world for a long time, but IIRC, you generally want sperm that swim straight and fast and show much “vigor” (sort of Michael Phelps-type swimmers).
Some breeders also were trying to preselect sperm by sex - if they wanted a colt, they tried to use YY sperm because they swam faster than XY sperm. If they wanted a filly, they preferred to use XY sperm. And the timing of insemination versus ovulation was critical for sex selection, because although they are faster, YY sperm do not have the longevity of XY sperm. So for a “natural” dose of semen that hasn’t been filtered for sex chromosomes (YY versus XY), the YY sperm will get to the oviduct first. If the egg hasn’t been released yet, the YY sperm will die off while waiting around. Meanwhile, the slower XY sperm will get to the oviduct and fertilize the egg when it is released.
I do not know however if this process was worth the cost - as I recall, it was pretty expensive to filter sperm by sex chromosome, and not often attempted because it had a serious negative impact on the longevity of the sperm. IOW, the longevity meter is ticking away during the filtering process and you don’t want to do anything that may have a detrimental effect on the sperm.
My knowledge though was from pre-ICSI days. Kasheare (or others who may know) - are breeders who use ICSI filtering sperm by sex chromosome? Or does that just add another huge risk factor to the whole process?
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Oh it’s very specific which one they choose. Dr Souza has a great website/Facebook RS Reproduction. I kind of stumbled into what I was doing but have gained a ton of knowledge over the last 2 years now
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I have never filtered sperm for sec chromosome. I was lucky to get two baloubet fu route foals from one icsi straw and every time you mess with any of the process more like sexing the embryo or color testing etc you take essentially another 10% off it being a viable embryo to transplant
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Is the intent to get multiple embryos out of 1 straw?
How do they get the egg(s) out of the mare? Do they try to hyperstimulate the mare to produce more eggs like they do in people?
This is from Dr. Foss’s site. Very informative.
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Yes
Some historical perspective, although there are others on this forum that can probably provide more or better info. But some 15-20 years or so back, there was a huge hullabaloo when the German and Dutch stallion owners learned that people in NA were routinely splitting doses of semen to get multiple foals from what had been sold as a single breeding dose. I am sure it also happened with some Euro breeders but since those mare owners lived in closer proximity to the SOs - many of whom held a lot of sway with the various registries - breeders there tended to try to not annoy the SOs too much. NA-based breeders, OTOH, were far away from the SOs and many figured they could fly under the radar without any “repercussions,” so they became quite bold about splitting doses to get two (or more) foals out of each breeding dose.
Sidebar: One of the ways SOs “policed” breeders was by leaning on the registries to require a Breeding Certificate signed by the SO before they would issue registration papers. The intent was one Breeding Certificate for each foal, but there were a boatload of NA breeders who gamed the system by providing photocopies of a breeding certificate to different registries (or even the same registry sometimes!) so they could register multiple foals resulting from the same breeding dose - one foal of Stallion A/Mare A registered with one registry, and another foal by Stallion A/Mare B registered with another registry, etc. Mare owners would even sometimes doctor the certificates to replace the name of the mare, and although some registries requested ORIGINAL Breeding Certificates, such policies were sometimes overlooked either intentionally or accidentally. And since the registries didn’t really communicate with each other to share breeding data of that sort, no one but the mare owner was the wiser. And this doesn’t even touch on the fact that many hunter breeders in particular were not bothering to register their foals at all at that time because of the general belief that show hunters were made, not bred (which I always thought was a rather stupid claim, esp. when the breeders were going to such efforts to breed to specific stallions.)
Anyway, many NA breeders and their repro vets became quite adept at splitting a dose of semen so they could inseminate multiple mares. So, say instead of using all three straws of a breeding dose of frozen semen from stallion “Top of the World,” they would use one straw in one mare and another straw in another mare and save the third straw to use at another time (or sell). Sometimes the strategy didn’t work and there would be only one pregnancy or none at all, but it worked often enough that the practice became pretty commonplace – and especially as word began to seep out about which stallions could be reliably “split” (for a variety of factors, some stallions tend to yield better results with splitting than other stallions).
So - to circle back to my opening sentence - the SOs got pretty miffed because instead of buying two doses to get two foals, mare owners would buy only one dose but still get their two foals by splitting the dose. The SOs bottom lines were being adversely impacted, so the SOs decided to try to recoup their losses by raising semen prices. This resulted in seemingly endless cycles of price increases back in the mid to late 2000 timeframe (some doses doubled in price from year to year), which put mare owners in a tizzy because instead of buying a dose of semen from “Mr. Top of the World” for, say $600/dose, they now had to pay $1000 or more (and some very successful stallions are priced in the stratosphere, esp. if they are deceased or retired from breeding).
So, yeah – the tendency these days for many mare owners is to try to get as many foals as possible from each dose of semen. And breeders like Kasheare who are using ICSI and ET, etc., can get a half dozen or more foals each year from a prolific mare. In a way, it cheapens the market because instead of there being one Mr. Fantastic sired by Mr. Top of the World and out of World’s Best Broodmare by Mr. Former Top of the World (etc.), there may now be multiple “Mr. Fantastics” with the very same bloodline. Of course performance success is also a factor, but in general, the owner of Mr. Fantastic-A can’t price him as high as she may want because many buyers/mare owners will just go to Mr. Fantastic-B (or C, or D) instead.
Okay, off my soapbox for now.
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I didn’t see a price listed, but from a quick glance at his owner’s website, it looks like you can still breed to Abdullah, and he’s been gone for more than thirty years.
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