I would feel sorry for the stallion owners except there are probably more mare owners with one foal for three breeding doses versus three foals with one breeding dose. And that doesn’t even count the frozen semen sold that has terrible motility. As long as you are selling semen with no foal guarantees I don’t think you can blame the mare owners that roll the dice and win. Unless your contract prohibits that. Don’t some of the big stallion owners do that now?
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Several of the big stallion stations are only breeding on-site now and those stallions are not available at all, because they don’t want breeders splitting semen.
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I hear you. I know someone who paid $12,000 some years back for three breeding doses of frozen semen from Totilas and didn’t get a pregnancy at all - and his frozen was pretty reliable! She was using a good repro vet who was very experienced with frozen semen and they did not split the doses (used a full dose with each try). She was however using a maiden mare and that is always risky, esp. with frozen semen and esp. with a pricey stallion. IIRC, she reported her total costs as somewhere around $20,000 (including all the vet work) - and no foal.
As for no guarantees with frozen - I can understand the SO’s point of view, as breeding with frozen semen is somewhat riskier than when using fresh semen and there are so many variables that are beyond the SO’s control once the semen leaves their facility. It has to be handled properly, it has to be stored properly, it has to be thawed properly, the mare has to be at the right point in her cycle, etc.
One of the huge benefits of frozen semen is that it doesn’t have to be used immediately (unlike fresh semen, which has a very short shelf life), and it gives breeders access to a much greater selection of stallions, many of whom may not even in the same hemisphere or may be deceased or older and retired from breeding, but it does have it downsides.
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Yeah, I had heard that. Also, in some cases, the SOs have stated that the stallion is going to focus strictly on competition this year. It is my understanding though that some of them are quietly trying to accommodate “special mares” although they are not publicizing that fact.
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Ouch. Horrible.
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So, question: You have an unethical MO who buys a dose from SO. MO then splits the dose and gets three foals.
Surely the SO would only issue a service cert for the original, approved mare?
Yes, technically you have a MO with three Toto (example only!) babies, but only one can be registered? Or can MO force registration through DNA testing?
When I registered my x/b Lip foal, I provided the registry with the stallion service certificate. No cert, no registration. Sure I could tell people the parentage, but if I’m dropping $xxxxx on a Toto baby, I want a piece of paper stating “Foal Y is registered with X studbook, sire Toto, dam TeatreeSwampPony”.
Thoughts?
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These are just frozen straws that I get with no contract. There is no stallion certificate. What I’m doing is totally ethical.
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Can the offspring be registered without a stallion certificate?
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So you’re selling unregistered stock?
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Do they do DNA testing to prove the breeding maybe?
Again, I haven’t been involved with the breeding world for quite some time and things have changed drastically in the past decade or so - and many changes were driven by the big upsurge in the use of frozen semen because stallion owners and agents do not even know what mare is being bred or when. In the past, the stallion owners or their agents (including the importers of frozen doses) usually provided breeding certificates to the buyer, but I do not think that is necessarily the case anymore. I know that one well-known importer advises clients to obtain the BC from their registry of choice.
I also don’t know if the BCs even have to be signed by the SO anymore, and it may depend on the semen importer’s contract as to whether dose-splitting is allowed.
And generally, most mainstream registries have for the past decade or more required parentage verification via DNA comparison before they will issue foal registration papers.
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It sounds as though she is registering primarily with KWPN.
And if there is no language in the contract when they purchase the semen that precludes splitting doses, then it is not illegal. The stallion owner or agent may consider it “unethical” but if they aren’t happy about it, then they need to change their contracts - although some breeders will ignore such a clause because they know that it is not really financially feasible to try to pursue legal action against someone unless there is big money involved.
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Most of the well-known registries do require parentage verification via DNA comparisons with sire and dam.
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What are you talking about? All mine have Kwpn papers with dna and microchip. You don’t need a stallion certificate.
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Good to know 
A minor addendum about frozen semen contracts. There are so many instances nowadays of people buying doses that someone else originally purchased. Breeders often buy many more doses than they actually need that year, oftentimes to get the doses at an introductory price before the stallion becomes more successful and the price goes way up. And/or the breeder intends to store the extra doses for future use or for resale. I routinely see FB posts from breeders listing frozen doses for sale that they have determined they are not ever going to use. In those cases, even if the original buyer signed a contract with language that precludes dose-splitting, such contracts are rarely (virtually never) passed on to the new buyer (or so I have been told). So the new buyer is totally off the hook legally and can do whatever she wants with the doses.
Again, in the past, registries used to help try to police these types of activities to support the stallion owners, but the advent of frozen semen shipped worldwide and stored indefinitely and passed from buyer to buyer became a tsunami that the registries could not manage. So things changed dramatically - which again, is part of the reason why the stallion owners have raised their prices so drastically over the past decade or so.
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Semen is frequently sold via private sale without a contract and MOs are free to do as they wish with the dose(s) they have. Stallion owners often sell doses of semen without contracts - it frees them from any guarantees regarding the semen. Contracts are also not required for registration.
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IMO, it has more to do with the rising costs in the industry. Veterinary expenses have risen significantly, as have costs associated with feeding/caring for horses. There are also issues with labor - Europe is currently experiencing labor shortages to a point where some studs are shutting down and not offering breeding at all. Gestut W.M. just recently announced they will not be offering Secret, Finest or Bon Courage for stud due to labor shortages. There is likely more to that between the lines but there are significant challenges occurring with breeders that is driving prices or limiting breeding that does not involve trying to control contracts. Also, like I said above, it is also not at all uncommon for semen to be sold from SOs without contracts - they do not wish to guarantee anything about the semen or offer LFGs, etc. They get a quick sale, no strings attached. MOs are at higher risk without a LFG (etc), but they are also free to split doses or do as they wish with the semen.
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I’m beginning to see why the Jockey Club stuck with live cover. I thought they were just being old-fashioned, but now I see what a can of wigglies the whole AI /ET/IVF procedures could open up. Especially for a registry that really wants control over their participants because so much money and gambling is involved. I mean the incentives to cheat or game the system are huge in the TB race world, much higher than other breeds. I don’t exactly have an idea how you’d do that with DNA testing but I expect someone could figure out a cheat.
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With embryo transfer availability is it allowable for multiple foals with the same sire and dam to be registered in the same year?
