Well, although I don’t have “wadded panties”, I did not know all this, and appreciated the info.
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A friend here in Ocala has a DHH who is getting ready for Fourth level. He was a failed driving horse. He is quite nice! (Funny story- the first time he saw other horses being ridden, he lost.his.mind. What OS that thing? Lol. )
Another friend had a really nice DHH who sadly had serious big allergies and had to be sent north. He was turning into a really nice dressage horse.
And weren’t there comments way back when Totilas came on the scene that somehow “harness horses” had gotten into his ancestry?
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Did someone post above somewhere that Dutch Harness are not “Sport Horses?”
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Reminds me of my foals when they see me ride another horse for the first time - they stop and watch with very wide eyes. 
So cute.
As far as Totilas - yes, it goes back to the dam line of Totilas which includes Glendale (Totilas’s dam’s sire) who is by Nimmerdor. Nimmerdor has Groningen damlines on both the dam and sire’s side. Also on the dam line of Totilas is the Groningen stallion, Akteur, who is out a predominant Groningen damline. For those who aren’t familiar with these lines, the Groningen and Gelderlander were both combined to form the modern day DHH (and the KWPN in general).
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Wow… that is a gorgeous animal!
Thanks for the quick education. That is interesting about Totilas. Nimmerdor (1.6m jumper) in addition to Glendale, is the sire of Ahorn (1.6m jumper) who I was surprised to see (just looking at it last night) in the mare line of Glammourdale (sire of second dam.)
Per this article, Nimmerdor’s dam worked on the farm and also showed in many competitions She was by a thoroughbred sire.
https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2014/10/nimmerdor/
Thanks for the background!
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The owner who imported Gaudi recently imported a lovely Gelders stallion, Floris. He’ll be a cool offering going forward for those interested in the Gelders horse. Just lovely and temperament seems exceptional. He’s also confirmed PSG and is his ammy owner’s personal riding horse.
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No problem. Nimmerdor was such a nice and hugely influential stallion. Most modern and successful dressage horses also hail from a combination of jumper and dressage lines. Unfortunately, a lot of current breeders are deviating from that combination and I think a lot of offspring are becoming too type-y and extreme in doing so. Not to mention that some of the major stud books have taken out the jumping assessment of prospect dressage stallions. I like a dressage horse that has a good jump and quality canter that usually comes from jumper lines.
@fordtraktor, I love Gaudi and Scott is a pleasure to work with. I have a foal by Gaudi and he improved everything I had hoped. Improved the hind end, improved the canter and gave greater shoulder freedom. Also just a really sweet, friendly and easy going baby.
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@Warmblood1, I have a Gaudi foal due in the spring out of my jumper bred KWPN mare and was just texting Scot about a rebreed. Excited! He’s great, as is Wim, who manages Gaudi.
The thing I want most is greater shoulder freedom and a little uphill. My mare has a great canter and is very correct, but could use a touch of modernizing too. She isn’t one I would put to Floris because she’s a tank herself.
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That’s so exciting. I have another dose of semen that I’ll likely use in the Spring, too.
I used an older style mare and got a really modern foal. He’s really nice. From what I can tell, I think he will also have a very nice jump. Both Gaudi and the mare have jumper lines somewhere in the pedigree. I think you’ll be really happy with what you get. I haven’t seen a single foal by him that I haven’t liked.
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I was just reading an article about Laura Graves and Diddy. It says he is half DHH, as his dam is one. If that article is accurate, I think that’s pretty significant.
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"It’s with Liwilarda, Verdades’ dam, that this pedigree takes an unusual turn. Faith Fessenden, former KWPN-NA judge and longtime chair of KWPN-NA’s Education Committee, weighs in: “Through Liwilarda, we see the influence of the Dutch Harness Horse in Verdades’ pedigree. Dutch Harness Horses are carriage horses with high knee action, developed some generations back with influence from the Gelders Horse.” The Gelders Horse is a heavier warmblood type originally bred for both versatility and style: these horses needed the strength and stamina to work farms but also enough refinement and action to be stylish carriage horses. Fessenden says it’s not at all unusual for Gelders to influence the breeding of modern Dutch Warmbloods, but it is somewhat exceptional to have this much Harness Horse influence so close in the pedigree of an Olympic dressage horse. Fessenden explains, “Liwilarda’s sire, Goya, brings the stallion Oregon to the table—five times if you go back seven generations. Oregon was a strongly built chestnut with sturdy legs and feet, with lots of white, impressive in type and movement. He became the foundation stallion for the classic Gelders Horse. Goya’s grandsire, Renovo, was the successor to that accolade as the modern Gelders/Harness Horse foundation stallion. Renovo, a bay, was well built, refined, handsome and brought more elegant and light-footed movement. His sire, Cambridge Cole, was a well-bred English Hackney, which combined well with the classic Gelders Horse.”
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I’m no Laura Graves (breaking news!) but I also have taken a half-DHH (Danish jumper stallion x Gelders mare) to GP. Bought him as a not-very-accomplished 2nd level horse with a bit of a bucking habit and over the course of thousands of hours in the saddle and several years, he started to use that athleticism for good instead of evil.
Even though he had the stereotypical flat croup and upright neck, he could really sit, especially in pirouettes. And also one-tempis; once throwing 23 of them on a diagonal (“cld cover more ground” - the judge).
They can make really nice dressage horses but you’ve got to find one that can canter. Full disclosure: mine always looked like a feral carthorse running free in the field, even when he was competently laying down FEI work under saddle. So buying young can be a bit of a gamble.
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Hmm, it is my understanding that a Gelders mare isn’t really “half DHH” – Gelders and Harness are distinct breeding directions through KWPN. The Gelders can be presented under saddle (dressage and jumping) or in harness, but the harness-presented Gelders seem to me to be more of an older-fashioned type WB than you’d see in the Harness stallions. But I could be wrong about that? Much more focus on being an all-around athlete, specifically focused on good character and temperament. IMO they look quite different, as in I don’t see any Gelders horses with the extremely flat croup that makes many DHH inappropriate for dressage.
Not knocking part-bred DHHs, though – in the old days, US jumper breeders often used harness blood for the range of motion they could bring. Especially when courses weren’t full of big scope tests, like the tight distances to wide oxers that prevail today. And I’ve seen quite a few first gen half-DHH out of mares with horrible croups that don’t have that trait at all.
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This is a very interesting thread. I’ve learned quite a bit. Thank you to all.
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Gelders horses and the DHH are different breeding directions under KWPN but it’s much like looking at pedigrees with dressage and jumper lines - they are almost always intertwined. There are few 100 percent gelders horses as most do have DHH breeding and/or other WB lines. After WW2, the Gelders and Groningen stud books were combined to form the KWPN stud book which later formulated different breeding directions so they are all essentially tied together. With modern breeding we have formulated more specific types/breeding directions with more selective lines. Interestingly, though, is that KWPN has accepted a lot of German and Spanish blood as of late so that will also take the KWPN in a new and interesting direction. More breeders are stepping up to preserve Gelders blood, however, which I think is great.
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DHH can make super nice FEI and GP horses but not all are created equal but that can be said about all breeds and registries.
Buying them young is always a gamble but like with any horse buy the gaits and temperament to do the job you want.
My girl bought as an unstarted 4year old. Her trot is good but her canter is very good especially for a DHH.
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What a lovely horse! I am just learning myself, as I recently acquired a 2 year old DHH/KWPN filly. I’ll admit, I am still extremely confused about the difference between the two and also Dutch Warmbloods in general. I have no idea what lines my horse has in her breeding, as I don’t know how to read her papers in that regard. She’s small, but moves very well and is very kind. Unfortunately, she also seems a bit skittish of some of the strangest things and dually, incredibly brave about other things that leave her barn mates in a tizzy.
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Indeed. I looked up my horse’s breeder and found old videos as a 2-3 year old. Not sure why I didn’t do that before…. “Royal Dutch Sporthorse” is KWPN-NA papers. So if anyone claims the Dutch Harness are not “sport horses” I can say mine officially is one !
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@Guyot, what a nice extended trot. Lovely.
@OceansAway, if you’d like, you can post your mare’s pedigree and more than likely, I/others will recognize the breeding and can tell you about it.
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