Excellent idea!!
That sounds way high. I put an old horse down this Spring. Paid $125 to vet to euthanize him and another $125 for the backhoe. I realize the costs can vary per area but no way should it cost that much unless you want to cremate the horse or something.
I would be all for local slaughterhouses where we could take our horses that are no longer wanted but that does nothing to solve meat safety issues. In Europe they have passports and ways to know what drugs went in a horse from birth…here in the US we do not. Some drugs have no withdrawal period either like Bute…one of the most common drugs given to US horses. It sounds like a good solution to build local plants but in reality it still leaves us with other problems.
Last I read, the EU was going to require a 100% traceability system (passport) for all nations providing horsemeat to them by 2012 so unless the US does something fast, there will no longer be a horse slaughter market for human consumption at all unless the meat goes somewhere else. Since it’s a demand driven industry, I would not have any idea who else would want it.
Here’s a link to their reviews on Guidestar http://greatnonprofits.org/whitelabel/reviews/another-chance-4-horses-inc
Great non-profit is an oxymoron in this case. As is the case with most questionable “rescues” there are those who are trying to expose them for what they are and those who will defend them even with evidence that they are not what they say they are. Let the buyer and contributor beware.
MyssMyst - don’t give me this sermon and want me to believe that all these people sending the horses/ponies/donkeys/mules/drafts/mini’s are all people who woke up one day BROKE.
Our animals are paying the price for the people who have been living their life on the edge of going broke for almost a decade. For people who are facing disasters such as tornadoes or fires- that’s a different story. But if you want me to believe that the people abandoning animals or taking them to the killer sale are people in the disaster category - there are NO statistics to support your thesis.
People need to take a good hard look at WHAT happens to any animal they own if they face a financial disaster BEFORE they acquire the animals. Everyone posting on here should have already asked themselves what’s my plan if the economy gets worse. Because from all financial indicators I track - we HAVE NOT hit bottom yet.
And while there are some Vets who won’t euthanize horses that they feel are not close to death - even the Veterinary community is realizing the current situation is extremely serious and putting horses down is the lesser of two evils.
As far as the Rescues - CHECK THEM OUT. If they are not a 501©(3) not for profit organization - DON’T WORK WITH THEM. If they are one and you feel they are actually operating as a for profit report them to the Secretary of State in the state they are operating. We all know there are bottom feeders out there working deals with the Kill buyers and wooing soft hearted people into paying rescue fees that are at least twice what they would pay for the animal outright at the sale.
In this case - these are 2 registered warmbloods that someone owned and decided they had no use for them anymore. I STAND by my comment that they should be outed so that those of us in the business of selling horses DON’T DO BUSINESS WITH THEM.
And for the record I donate money to legitimate rescue non-profits. I also donate items to their auctions and spend the time to clip the coupons on the Triple Crown feed bags I buy and send them to a horse rescue here in NJ. They get $.25 per coupon. There are many ways people can help the rescues but as horse owners we need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves today - what’s my plan for these animals if something happens to me.
Some of you need to learn to use a fire arm. This is America land of the free, home of the brave, kingdom of the over armed…
When my Brontosaurus of a Thoroughbred mare was put down a few years ago it did NOT cost a grand! My vet charged a hundred dollars to put her down (she was already undable to stand) and it was another hundred to have the rendering company take her body away. Seriously who the heck is paying upwards of a GRAND to put a horse down??? That’s insane and I don’t know an actual person who has ever paid that kind of money.
A bullet is a VERY cheap and extremely humane option. There is no reason to spend huge amounts of money humanely destroying old lame horses (bought from auction or otherwise). If people really want to see these horses have a better end then they need to learn to use a fire arm and put them down themsleves (or a trusted person) and save a TON of money to buy other horses that need rehab or be put down. Putting a horse down costs almost NOTHING. Bullets are pennies a piece. Using chemical euthenasia is a done for the comfort of PEOPLE. It’s outragously expensive and often goes wrong. Use a bullet, save the money, save more horses. IMO
Have you ever watched a horse (or cow or pig or any other animal 95% of us eat daily?) be slaughtered?
SURE have. Am actually going out to kill a rooster myself this afternoon after he gets a drink or two of burbon. No it’s not pretty. It SURE beats sending him off to who knows where for possible inhumane treatment.
My husband and I just killed and cleaned 35 broilers this morning. Now I have to go back out and get them cut up, bagged up and frozen. We are in the local food business and chicken (pastured poultry) is a specialty of ours. I much prefer raising and processing our own meat animals when I can.
Agree with RougeEmpire…bullets are cheap. I’m lucky that my vet will euthanize for a reasonable cost but I’d shoot a horse if I could not afford the convenience of the vet doing it or if it was suffering badly and I could not get a vet quickly. I would NEVER dump a horse at a sale for meat prices and be able to live with myself.
[QUOTE=MyssMyst;5660262]
This is unnecessary. Absolutely NO need to call anyone an idiot. Just because someone may not be able to afford the euthanasia now doesn’t mean that they couldn’t when they bought the horse. Life happens. How many people have lost their jobs and been unable to find another one? How many people went from being able to comfortably afford a high end lifestyle to being able to barely afford food and shelter? You do NOT know the situation, and it is not your place to judge. Do we all wish they weren’t there? Yes. Without a doubt. However, sometimes you just can’t control the crap life throws at you. Life happening doesn’t make you a bad horse owner. We don’t know what they tried before sending these animals through auction. They could be black-hearted douchecanoes for all we know, or they could be victims of a very shitty situation.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but people who had the means to buy horses don’t go to broke and homeless that fast. There is time and $1,000 for euthanasia between here and there.
Same for people in floods/tornadoes and the rest. Think about it. You have nothing. You are down to your last $1,000 in your checking account. Most of what you could buy with that-- food, shelter, clothing, you can get help with. And the $1,000 you spent on taking care of your unwanted horse isn’t going to go appreciably far with respect to any of these other needs, either.
It makes me nuts when people who believed they had the kind of wealth that allowed them to buy horses in the first place claim “OMG! Suddenly broke by anyone’s standards!” No, not suddenly. No, not broke by poor people’s standards at all.
Otherwise, carry on.
[QUOTE=MyssMyst;5660262]
This is unnecessary. Absolutely NO need to call anyone an idiot. Just because someone may not be able to afford the euthanasia now doesn’t mean that they couldn’t when they bought the horse. Life happens. How many people have lost their jobs and been unable to find another one? How many people went from being able to comfortably afford a high end lifestyle to being able to barely afford food and shelter? You do NOT know the situation, and it is not your place to judge. Do we all wish they weren’t there? Yes. Without a doubt. However, sometimes you just can’t control the crap life throws at you. Life happening doesn’t make you a bad horse owner. We don’t know what they tried before sending these animals through auction. They could be black-hearted douchecanoes for all we know, or they could be victims of a very shitty situation.
Right now is NOT the time for throwing blame. That does not solve the situation, or save the lives of these horses. So why not focus on what DOES matter? If this truly matters to you, and isn’t a soapbox that you just want to stand on and thump your chest a bit, quit railing the previous owners, it’s too late for that now. Instead, let’s work to making slaughter illegal.
Until then, how can we stop horses from going to slaughter in the first place? Could we make a website that is for a hardship exchange? Somewhere where people can get help when they’re in a bad situation. Where horse people can take care of our own. Whether it’s contributing a bale of hay, help working/grooming a horse when someone is hurt and can’t do it themselves, help taking in horses when the owner just can’t do it anymore, we’ve all needed help at one point or another (ahd if you haven’t, your turn is probably coming). And, sometimes, we are able to give ourselves.
If we quit pointing fingers at each other, and instead worked together, I bet you we could save some of these horses from going to auction in the first place. I don’t give a crap who you are, but you better not be pointing fingers and laying blame unless you have a solution. Unless you’re part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
Bingo.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;5660197]
THANK YOU - Whitfield Farm.
To those of you who say - “walk in their shoes” - listen you idiot - those of us who have bred and owned horses for decades face the reality of lame horses that may or may not be useful. But sending them to the KILLER SALES - yes don’t sugar coat it with the word AUCTION - is not what a responsible horse owner does with their horses or ponies.
If you can’t sell them or give them away and you can’t afford to keep them - DO THE RESPONSIBLE THING AND PUT THEM DOWN.
I’m quite sure the owners of these 2 horses didn’t intend to stay and make sure they didn’t go on the transports to Canada - NO - they probably convinced themselves they would be purchased and go to good homes. As others have pointed out the probability of them being purchased is going down every day. Horses are being abandoned all over the country and many are just being starved to death.
So get your heads out of your butts about this concept that taking a lame equine to a Killer Sale isn’t going to result in them being a burger. If you can’t afford to euthanize your horses or ponies when it’s necessary - YOU CAN’T AFFORD THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.[/QUOTE]
“listen you idiot”
Wait. Did you just call us idiots??? 
Did you say you work in the horse industry? With that level of professionalism!??! Yikes!! :eek:
And no, I am no newbie to the horse industry either, ise@ssl 
In answer to your post: no one here - from what I can tell - is under any impression that taking a lame equine to an auction is not going to result in them being burger. We all have various opinions on horse slaughter (check out some of the other slaughter-related threads here on CoTH).
Second, if you can’t afford to euthanize a horse, you’re right, you can’t afford them in the first place. Now, I’m no rocket scientist, but I’m just saying that that might be the reason the horses were taken to the auction in the first place 
Just sayin’. Many individuals acquire horses when they can afford them, and have their financial situation later change. Btdt.
And as summer approaches don’t forget those bottom-feeders who pick up horses and ponies at the killer sale for Camp Riding Programs and then drop them back there in the fall when no one is buying horses and ponise and the probability they head to Canada packed in a transport is very high. Of course they won’t keep them over the winter - it would cut into their profit - so they use the “everything is disposable including equines” mentality and dump them.
And yes I have a horse business and YES I see the photos of the equines at the Camelot sale here EVERY WEEK. Some being shipped in from as far away as California. And YES - they do head to CANADA in over crowded transports to be killed and made into meat. It’s a big business for Canada!
And I won’t be preached to that I haven’t walked in someone’s shoes. In the horse breeding business you get the worst situations handed to you but you have to deal with them. And I’d shoot a horse before I’d send it to the New Holland sale in PA or the Camelot sale in NJ. I couldn’t live with myself to just “drop them off” because I couldn’t find someone to take them or buy them when they are lame or old.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5660318]
This could very well be how they ended up at the auction in the first place.
People get all silly when something is free like this…if you read that story on Fugly, that’s exactly how the TB horse ended up at auction.
The true fact is, when it’s “free” it usually means it’s another mouth to feed that will give nothing back. And in these hard times, there simply are not enough homes for creatures with those sort of needs.
You know, I just read that last year between 4-6 MILLION cats/dogs/puppies/kittens were put to sleep. 4-6 MILLION!!
Yet somehow folks are thinking we are going to place every horse out there who doesn’t “fit.” [I]Not going to happen, folks! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
[/I]You know, I have five cats; got every one of them from the shelter. I did what I could. But I know that I can’t save 'em all. That’s just Life.
Now, if there was a humane slaughter house in New Holland, just think – maybe those poor horses could finally get a rest. Sounds like they’ve been hauled all over east jesus already. Thrown in transport with strange horses; held in large pens with strange horses. Who knows how well they are being treated.
And how is this any different that being transported to slaughter? The horses don’t know where they are going or why. They live moment to moment.
So explain to me again how this is helping these animals?
I’m telling you – the smart answer is to build MORE plants, lobby for very strict transport standards, more inspections and humane processing. It’s possible.
You cannot legislate morality, and when it comes to treating animals, these are usually “moral” choices.
If you are a real animal lover, you don’t want to put down a horse just because it’s alittle lame. You have a soft heart, so you give the dear animal away. Two years later, it’s moved down the line and they end up at New Holland.
Now, if you are a greedy, SOB who wants to squeeze that last $$ from a horse, you sell them for $400 to the killer buyer at New Holland.
Do you really think it matters to the horse?
Horses will continue to be saved at auctions – horse people were looking for “deals” at these sort of auctions long before “rescues” became the thing. I’ve bought plenty of useable horses from these sorts of auctions.
But not all will be wanted. Just like those 4-5 million cats/dogs. That is simply the hard, cold fact of living.
OK – an admitted rant. But from my observations this whole situation has caused more suffering for horses in general than what we started with…[/QUOTE]
Very well put
[QUOTE=back in the saddle;5660341]
Key words: Put to sleep.
There’s enough interest (on this forum alone) in that mare to PAY $1200 for her… it sure sounds like someone here would have taken her for free. BUT, was she ever ‘offered’. That’s my point. Someone had to make a buck and someone else is trying to make a bigger buck off of her. Chronicle forums offers a FREE place to advertise FREE horses. But nope… she was never listed now was she?[/QUOTE]
Sooo… you’re trying to say that because she was not listed on CoTH, that she was never offered at all? Am I missing something??
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;5660405]
MyssMyst - don’t give me this sermon and want me to believe that all these people sending the horses/ponies/donkeys/mules/drafts/mini’s are all people who woke up one day BROKE.
Our animals are paying the price for the people who have been living their life on the edge of going broke for almost a decade. For people who are facing disasters such as tornadoes or fires- that’s a different story. But if you want me to believe that the people abandoning animals or taking them to the killer sale are people in the disaster category - there are NO statistics to support your thesis.
People need to take a good hard look at WHAT happens to any animal they own if they face a financial disaster BEFORE they acquire the animals. Everyone posting on here should have already asked themselves what’s my plan if the economy gets worse. Because from all financial indicators I track - we HAVE NOT hit bottom yet.
And while there are some Vets who won’t euthanize horses that they feel are not close to death - even the Veterinary community is realizing the current situation is extremely serious and putting horses down is the lesser of two evils.
As far as the Rescues - CHECK THEM OUT. If they are not a 501©(3) not for profit organization - DON’T WORK WITH THEM. If they are one and you feel they are actually operating as a for profit report them to the Secretary of State in the state they are operating. We all know there are bottom feeders out there working deals with the Kill buyers and wooing soft hearted people into paying rescue fees that are at least twice what they would pay for the animal outright at the sale.
In this case - these are 2 registered warmbloods that someone owned and decided they had no use for them anymore. I STAND by my comment that they should be outed so that those of us in the business of selling horses DON’T DO BUSINESS WITH THEM.
And for the record I donate money to legitimate rescue non-profits. I also donate items to their auctions and spend the time to clip the coupons on the Triple Crown feed bags I buy and send them to a horse rescue here in NJ. They get $.25 per coupon. There are many ways people can help the rescues but as horse owners we need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves today - what’s my plan for these animals if something happens to me.[/QUOTE]
If you’re going to call for other people to not do business with an owner who sent their horses to slaughter, keep in mind how many people on this board you just called idiots. Rather than costing those owners business (since we don’t know who they are yet), you probably just cost yourself.
I never said that all auction horses were there from financial hardship, I merely pointed out that we don’t know. And yes, it is possible to go downhill that quickly. I’ve been in that boat. Granted, I didn’t have horses at the time, but we went from very comfortable to having the breadwinner out of work, great health insurance to nothing, and 20k+ of medical bills to boot. Nevermind the $500 a month in prescription medication. In less than 2 months we went from being comfortable to nothing. If I had horses at the time, I would have had to make some very hard decisions. Even with family helping us get back on our feet. I went from being a stay at home mom to working two jobs to bring us out of it. And it still took months of hard work, and a lot of help from family/friends to make it possible for me to even work those two jobs. Horses would have been impossible.
I’m not saying they made the decision I would have made, or that the reason these horses are there is hardship. Could the former owners be blackhearted bastards who didn’t care anymore? Very possibly. But we can’t know that. So I’m not about to scream for their heads/refuse to do business with them until I know the whole story. Especially when they haven’t been the ones to call me an idiot.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I need to install some padding on my soapbox. It appears I’ll be spending more time on it than anticipated :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=naturalequus;5660485]
Sooo… you’re trying to say that because she was not listed on CoTH, that she was never offered at all? Am I missing something??[/QUOTE]
Try not to be so narrow minded.
No, of course THAT’s not what I’m saying. Using it as an example. I’m looking for a ET mare and routinely search for free mares who may be suitable as an ET. This one has not been listed on any of the free horse sites. There are MANY of these sites and I can say, this horse has not been listed on them.
We’ve euthanized two horses in the past year and both have been well over $600 for euth and disposal.
As Kyzteke already noted, too:
If you are a real animal lover, you don’t want to put down a horse just because it’s alittle lame. You have a soft heart, so you give the dear animal away. Two years later, it’s moved down the line and they end up at New Holland.
Who knows what the story behind these horses is and as someone currently dealing with a lame horse, it’s honestly just not fair to judge without knowing the full story. Ultimately euthanizing is probably the best option, but it is tempting to instead maybe give the horse away to someone who might be able to afford the costs the original owner can’t, or who is just looking for a pasture puff, and see the horse live out a happy life. That person’s situation might change down the road, they might be unable to cope with the horse’s costs or care after realizing or discovering the full extent of the horse’s needs, etc etc. So much can happen - that’s life. So they pass the horse on to a new home or send it to auction. Sometimes things go downhill so fast you can’t sit around and wait for that perfect home for a horse and to others, slaughter is not the evil it is to others. Sending the horse to auction represents a difference in opinion. In that respect, my opinion echos that of Kyzteke’s: euthanasia by captive bolt or gun is just as humane as euthanasia by injection. I take issue with transportation in many cases and the actual process at some facilities, but that is something that can, and should, be stringently regulated.
I think it is pretty bold to call anyone an idiot for a differing opinion. I am in the veterinary profession and I see every single day people who can’t keep their cats/dogs/horses, etc for very unexpected and tragic circumstances. The economy is BAD, it is going to get WORSE. These situations aren’t going to stop. But instead of talking rationally about solutions we can name call all day long…
I also think it is pretty ironic that most of us having this discussion on this thread are breeders and as much as we all rationalize it there is always the possibility that a horse we brought into this world ends up in this exact same situation. Believe you me, I have thought hard for the last few years about bringing more horses into the world. Considering the situation that even high-quality horses fall into it should give one pause about producing more horses. There is no way, if you have bred more than just for keeping a horse yourself, that you can guarantee that a horse you produced won’t come to this kind of end.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5660318]
Now, if there was a humane slaughter house in New Holland, just think – maybe those poor horses could finally get a rest. Sounds like they’ve been hauled all over east jesus already. Thrown in transport with strange horses; held in large pens with strange horses. Who knows how well they are being treated.
And how is this any different that being transported to slaughter? The horses don’t know where they are going or why. They live moment to moment.
So explain to me again how this is helping these animals?
I’m telling you – the smart answer is to build MORE plants, lobby for very strict transport standards, more inspections and humane processing. It’s possible.
You cannot legislate morality, and when it comes to treating animals, these are usually “moral” choices.
OK – an admitted rant. But from my observations this whole situation has caused more suffering for horses in general than what we started with…[/QUOTE]
We are totally on the same page…
[QUOTE=RougeEmpire;5660408]
Some of you need to learn to use a fire arm. This is America land of the free, home of the brave, kingdom of the over armed…[/QUOTE]
And how do you propose I dispose of the body?? Rendering is not free - and not necessarily cheap - either. Getting a gun license and learning to shoot is easier said than done, too (especially in Canada, I can’t just pick up a gun and ammo at Wal-Mart ;)). Not to mention the fact guns cost money too. Are you recommending then that every owner know how to shoot, have all the appropriate licensing, and have an appropriate gun - just in case?
Next horse I have to euthanize, I’ll have them wait until I have my firearm license and have purchased a gun. Oh, and until I have proper aim.
The horse we had to pay upwards of $600 to euth last year due to a freak pasture accident? He!! he can wait, severed tendons and arteries or not. SOL buddy! Same follows for the horse we had (fatally) colic two weeks ago. Over $600 to euth and dispose of his body, too. I guess he would be SOL too. Should we have to euth my current lame guy, he’ll be SOL for awhile yet too.
Let’s be realistic: if you can euthanize your horse via a bullet - as my parents did our old dog when she finally took her last steps or the few steers they slaughtered on the farm - kudos to you. But hold us all to the same expectations is ludicrous.
[QUOTE=back in the saddle;5660508]
Try not to be so narrow minded.
No, of course THAT’s not what I’m saying. Using it as an example. I’m looking for a ET mare and routinely search for free mares who may be suitable as an ET. This one has not been listed on any of the free horse sites. There are MANY of these sites and I can say, this horse has not been listed on them.[/QUOTE]
I am not narrow minded but my comprehension of your post is restricted to what you wrote. Keep in mind we’re not all aware of these free horse sites - in fact, I had no knowledge any existed until you mentioned it now (eta: other than CoTH of course). For all you know, this mare has been advertised via some other means and as such we all missed her. Eta: the point is, we don’t know and if we don’t know, how can we find it fair to judge?? Even if we do know, much simply represents differing opinion.
